Explain this 'panache' idea to me...

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Wow, you two (Rich and Andy), simply don't like anything or anyone. You always take the dark side, the negative side, the pedantic side, the boring side. Bloody hell.

I was just explaining that for many years Tommy wasn't particularly the 'winningest' rider around.

But I do think that winning in a boring manner (and legally) is worth more than losing with panache.

ddraver

Don't you start Richard!!!!!

thegibdog

frenchfighter wrote:

...the pedantic side...

I think you'll find that's pendantic.

Remarkable

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Wow, you two (Rich and Andy), simply don't like anything or anyone. You always take the dark side, the negative side, the pedantic side, the boring side. Bloody hell.

I was just explaining that for many years Tommy wasn't particularly the 'winningest' rider around.

But I do think that winning in a boring manner (and legally) is worth more than losing with panache.

I didn't say he was 'the winningest' rider around. I said he was one of the winningest riders in the peloton. His tally of wins are quite good for a non bunch sprinter and he won all of them by being off the front, on the attack, riding his heart out, trying his best.
@ Rich "People throw rocks at things that shine".

RichN95.

Remarkable wrote:

@ Rich "People throw rocks at things that shine".

Only if they look really flash but then don't actually work.

ddraver

stop using the word!!!!!

Neep!

Remarkable

ddraver wrote:

stop using the word!!!!!

Neep!

lol Sorry

iainf72

His CQRanking did seem to point to a fairly middlleing riding in the years Rich mentions

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=43

bompington

I've just remembered, it's actually a mixture of chocolate and cream isn't it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panache

No_Ta_Doctor

andyp wrote:

Some big races there, like the Grand Prix de Plumelec-Morbihan and the Tour du Poitou Charentes et de la Vienne.

I grew up dreaming of winning those two.

Now that's panache.

afx237vi

A google image search for panache is very enlightening, I must say. Heartily recommended.

Remarkable

iainf72 wrote:

His CQRanking did seem to point to a fairly middlleing riding in the years Rich mentions

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=43

Perhaps, but a win is a win and is his style of riding I think has some panache to it

RonB

Back in the '80s the French had a version of Shandy Bass called Panache. Wonder if it's still about?

Edit...just did that Google image search...ahem, I see it still is!

No_Ta_Doctor

RonB wrote:

Back in the '80s the French had a version of Shandy Bass called Panache. Wonder if it's still about?

Edit...just did that Google image search...ahem, I see it still is!

So you did the image search and found a handy shandy ;-)

majormantra

andyp wrote:

Armstrong, post cancer, was someone who'd use his team to pummel the oppostion into submission then apply the coup de grace himself on the final summit finish. It was predictable, and stolen directly from Indurain before him, and a low risk strategy.

I suppose you could say something similar about Cavendish. No disrespect to him, but every one of his wins is like every other one of his wins.

emadden

RichN95 wrote:

It's also a trademark registered to Amgen.

Yes - they did this so we wouldnt have to say a rider is on EPO anymore... we can just say "That rider rides with panache"

Anonymous

I've got a couple of panache bottle-openers which came courtesy of the caravane.

dave_1

Remarkable wrote:

Why does everyone pick on voeckler? He is one of the most attacking and winningest riders in the peloton.. :roll:

There is a thin dividing line between panache and the ridiculous. Hinault's attempt to solo three cols in 2nd day in Pyrenees of 1986 TDF ahead of an awesomely powerful chase group of the best climbers in the world looked like stupidity whereas..the previous day his two up break with Delgado and his later two up with lemond to Alpe D'huez were panache..had a chance of succeeding and were more than was required by Hinault.

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

iainf72

Remarkable wrote:

Perhaps, but a win is a win and is his style of riding I think has some panache to it

I think TV's panache is much like Evans "never attacking" - It's just not true.

frenchfighter

thegibdog wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

...the pedantic side...

I think you'll find that's pendantic.

Not sure if you are being serious or silly (get out clause) but if you are the former:

http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/pedantic

frenchfighter

Dave_1 wrote:

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

Roughly how long were they in front? And was it pan flat in the section they attacked and rode?

dave_1

frenchfighter wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

Roughly how long were they in front? And was it pan flat in the section they attacked and rode?

The were away for something 50 kilometres and normally a yellow jersey should conserve energy on flat transition stages sitting in the bunch between the two mountain ranges..being boring in such stages to recover....I remember wondering if Fignon and Mottet would win the TDF that day. Lemond had no team that year so it was exciting and showed Fignon was a sly old fox who would try on any terrain to get Lemond

inkyfingers

I think that after a lot of hot air we have finally defined panache.....Laurent Fignon.

frenchfighter

Dave_1 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

Roughly how long were they in front? And was it pan flat in the section they attacked and rode?

The were away for something 50 kilometres and normally a yellow jersey should conserve energy on flat transition stages sitting in the bunch between the two mountain ranges..being boring in such stages to recover....I remember wondering if Fignon and Mottet would win the TDF that day. Lemond had no team that year so it was exciting and showed Fignon was a sly old fox who would try on any terrain to get Lemond

Good stuff! How did the rest of the stage play out?

dave_1

frenchfighter wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

Roughly how long were they in front? And was it pan flat in the section they attacked and rode?

The were away for something 50 kilometres and normally a yellow jersey should conserve energy on flat transition stages sitting in the bunch between the two mountain ranges..being boring in such stages to recover....I remember wondering if Fignon and Mottet would win the TDF that day. Lemond had no team that year so it was exciting and showed Fignon was a sly old fox who would try on any terrain to get Lemond

Good stuff! How did the rest of the stage play out?

one of Fignon's team mates won the day..it was Bastille day...but it sticks in your mind seeing the maillot jaune and possible GC winner throw caution to the wind and come out from behind the shelter of his team to ambush his rivals. Indurain, LA, Evans, Schelck, Contador...they and their directors would have played it safer maybe..Guimard and Fignon seemed more feisty.

RichN95.

Dave_1 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

panache by Mottet and my avatar at 7 mins 30secs into clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgOFXcItWE

Roughly how long were they in front? And was it pan flat in the section they attacked and rode?

The were away for something 50 kilometres and normally a yellow jersey should conserve energy on flat transition stages sitting in the bunch between the two mountain ranges..being boring in such stages to recover....I remember wondering if Fignon and Mottet would win the TDF that day. Lemond had no team that year so it was exciting and showed Fignon was a sly old fox who would try on any terrain to get Lemond

It's a bit of a myth that LeMond had no team in 1989. Nothing for the mountains, certainly. But on the flat he had Planckaert, Lammerts, Martens and Museeuw. They all won the Tour of Flanders so weren't lacking big engines.

Mccaria

Vincent Barteau won the stage into Marseille on Bastille Day 1989 with French riders 1,2,3, ahead of the bunch. I know, I was there !

Bastille Day, Bicentenary of the Revolution. French winner, French 1,2,3. Fignon in Yellow. Marseille was a great place to be that day. That was Panache.


Champs Elysee a week or so later. That wasn't Panache

dave_1

Mccaria wrote:

Vincent Barteau won the stage into Marseille on Bastille Day 1989 with French riders 1,2,3, ahead of the bunch. I know, I was there !

Bastille Day, Bicentenary of the Revolution. French winner, French 1,2,3. Fignon in Yellow. Marseille was a great place to be that day. That was Panache.


Champs Elysee a week or so later. That wasn't Panache

Lucky you. I really wish I had visited TDF 89!..but did go to TDF 1985,86 and 91 to watch.

shockedsoshocked

I think the term "classy" is better.

rick_chasey

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

I think the term "classy" is better.

Classy's different though.

Freire is f******* classy but doesn't have panache.

Same with Cavendish.