Bring Back National Service.

tim_wand

With nearly 50% of young people aged 16-25 not engaged in Education, Training or Employment is it time to bring back a two year period of National Service for this age group.

The Government has just announced proposals to pay employers £2200 for every young person they take on in this age group.

I ve spent the last 3 years working with 11- 16 year olds in both mainstream and excluded educational settings and without sounding like my dad, It is just incredulous the way this age group addresses anyone who has the audacity to attempt to give them any direction they do not favour.

Their role models are the cast of T.O.W.I.E. and the latest X factor winner and they are all so well informed of their own entitlement and rights with zero degree of responsibility or respect for anything.

Im sorry to sound like Victor Mildrew here, but when I hear justifications for allowing attrocities like the current situation in Syria to continue because our own armed forces are too exhausted at playing World Police after campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq, I cant see why we couldn't try to at least give some of them a chance to make a contribution.

Then again as an ex-serviceman I dont think I d like any of the Feckless gits covering my back on the front line.

MattC59

Popcooooorrrrrrnn !!!!!

(+1 by the way )

LeicesterLad

Matt beat me to it!!!

tim_wand

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

LeicesterLad

tim wand wrote:

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

Completely agree with you, im not sure about the national service route, but yes, alot of the 16-25's these days seem to be complete f*cktards, and they need more than a firm nudge in the right direction.

rake

tim wand wrote:

With nearly 50% of young people aged 16-25 not engaged in Education, Training or Employment is it time to bring back a two year period of National Service for this age group.

no. its time to create enough jobs with livable wages.
we could give them a try at managing the economy.

Frank the tank

LeicesterLad wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

Completely agree with you, im not sure about the national service route, but yes, alot of the 16-25's these days seem to be complete f*cktards, and they need more than a firm nudge in the right direction.

I am so offended by part of your comment. Both my children are in that age group, my eldest has made his way very well in life so far despite being aspergers. My daughter has worked since she left school and has a first in fine art. She's trying to find a career opening but it's a needle in a haystack job, she works all kind of sh1t hours for sh1t money doing bar work and is slowly getting ground down by the seeming futility of the whole scenario. I could cry for her at times.
Yes I know there are some who aren't bothered but,I would guess the majority want work/careers.

The Irony is we have a young generation can't get work and an older generation that aren't being allowed to get out of it.

As for national service I'm sure it may have a place in society somewhere.

tim_wand

Frank, I ve no intention of offending you or anyone else, I ve often read your posts on here and frequently agree with your points of view.

I wish there where more young people who prescribed to making a contribution and trying to better what are undoubtedly hard challenges and circumstances as your daughter is doing.

Without sounding like that Tory T*sser Cameron or every other sound bite politician who has tried to lay claim to family values, they are sadly missing and a lot of the blame is generational, where in a lot of these kids dont have positive role models within their own families.

I dont wish to tar everyone with the same brush.

I personally benefited from my time in the Armed Forces, it made me do a lot of growing up and taught me a lot of values and respect for others. (Sorry if I havent displayed that in this post)

I just think if the Goverment are going to throw money at getting young people into education and training, when most 16 year olds are just looking forward to the school gates being opened and escaping that environment. , then its little more than a cynical exercise to disguise the actual unemployment figures in this age group.

I find it both sad and Ironic as Frank said We have a generation which cant get into employment whilst theres a generation which doesnt feel like it will ever be able to retire.

rake

i think this state of affairs is just a reflection of the system we have today rather than some kind of affliction thats sweeping the country. who would invest in running national service, its sure to cost massive amounts of money.

Frank the tank

Tim my comment was meant for Leicesterlad.

tim_wand

Cant answer for him (although I am) I m sure LL will be along in a moment, having read a lot of his posts too Frank I m sure he too was referring to a general frustration that there are more examples of negative attitudes and role models in this age group, than positive.

LeicesterLad

Frank the tank wrote:

Tim my comment was meant for Leicesterlad.

I did say 'alot of' not 'every single' as i'm actually 'one' myself!

Sorry if i caused offence though, I sympathise with your daughter, as that's sort of the same situation as me. As Tim says, I am frustrated, I'm only 25 but see many around me, younger than me who truly are the dreggs living the doleite lifestyle with 5 kids, not saying its the norm everywhere, but where I live its pretty average. The whole inemployment thing irritates me, a lot of those unemployed are truly unemployable and that's the simple fact of it. (i know its because i'm a Tory though )

Jez mon

Frank the tank wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

Completely agree with you, im not sure about the national service route, but yes, alot of the 16-25's these days seem to be complete f*cktards, and they need more than a firm nudge in the right direction.

I am so offended by part of your comment. Both my children are in that age group, my eldest has made his way very well in life so far despite being aspergers. My daughter has worked since she left school and has a first in fine art. She's trying to find a career opening but it's a needle in a haystack job, she works all kind of sh1t hours for sh1t money doing bar work and is slowly getting ground down by the seeming futility of the whole scenario. I could cry for her at times.
Yes I know there are some who aren't bothered but,I would guess the majority want work/careers.

The Irony is we have a young generation can't get work and an older generation that aren't being allowed to get out of it.

As for national service I'm sure it may have a place in society somewhere.

This.

Frankly, as a 22 year old (admittedly in Uni), I haven't come across much of this 16-25 yos are complete f***tards thing. I'm not going to pretend that some of my generation aren't complete f***tards, but to claim that a lot are is missing the mark IMO.

Yes, I see plenty of young people are a bit foolish at times, and occasionally downright dim. But hasn't that always been the case? Besides at the end of the day, children are a product of their environment, you want to look to someone to lay the blame on, blame parents who have done an incredibly shoddy job, and successive governments who have let traditional manufacturing jobs die out and encouraged far too many to go to university to gain degrees of little worth.

The big thing that is increasing more and more, is I think, a general sense of hopelessness amongst the young people in this country. Youth unemployment is massive, and whilst I may stand a reasonable chance of getting a job as an engineering graduate (God willing!), many of my peers don't, not because they don't have the necessary skills/abilities or other such bs. but because they don't get the chance.

I don't think national service is a good idea, I think the government may be on the right(ish) lines with the work experience schemes they're introducing though. Fundamentally though, the issue of youth unemployment is just a massively complex issue.

Cleat Eastwood

All you're going to have tghough is an army of f*cktards. A bit of lateral thinking tells you this - why not get the middle class policy makers who thought they could categorise huge swathes of the populace as undereducated because they didnt meet their bourgeois academic ideas of social progress - get them and stick them in the army - educate them to see that peoples skills arent just academic, that Kyle 'thick-as-feck' Muldoon is cack at maths but a whizz at bricklaying. And then shoot them all, hehe.

DIESELDOG

Yes I would agree to bring back National Service and would openly use my brother as the perfect example of someone who thought it a good idea to TWOC, albeit our mothers car, (no difference as to who the car belonged to, he still stacked it), at 14 and think it was funny, he then went on to get into all manner of trouble. He went on to join the Army at 17 and Christ did it sort him out.

Since then he has become a very accomplished builder, (built Mums new house), and a real family man with great morals and value.

I don't think you'd ever get an Army full of f***tards, the RSM generally sorts them out!

Love n hugs

DD

Omar Little

Same has been said of every generation since at least the baby boomers and probably before them too even though the concept of "teenagers" didnt really exist i'm sure older generation would be moaning about something or other. The moans change a bit over time as new interests emerge, music changes, technology changes etc but the fundamentals remain the same.

Thats the circle of life and when you get old you are not getting laid as much as you want to be, you are getting fat and bald, stuck in a 9 to 5 job your dreams of being a rock star over with annoying kids that you know are getting more action than you. It can be a tough thing getting old so it is natural that a certain amount of resentment subconciously builds towards the younger generation behaving in the same way and making the same sort of mistakes that your own generation were criticised about at the time.

Besides national service is not wanted by the military as it undermines their professionalism and is a massive waste of resources.

finchy

If Britain is ever under threat from invasion, then yes bring back national service. As it is, I don't think that sending young men and women out to get shot for government/big business/whatever is an appropriate punishment for fecklessness.

There's a load of litter around here that needs picking up though...

(Edit: I'll make an exception for my neighbour. He can't be sent to Syria to take them on single-handed. And preferably unarmed.)

verylonglegs

Jez mon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

Completely agree with you, im not sure about the national service route, but yes, alot of the 16-25's these days seem to be complete f*cktards, and they need more than a firm nudge in the right direction.

I am so offended by part of your comment. Both my children are in that age group, my eldest has made his way very well in life so far despite being aspergers. My daughter has worked since she left school and has a first in fine art. She's trying to find a career opening but it's a needle in a haystack job, she works all kind of sh1t hours for sh1t money doing bar work and is slowly getting ground down by the seeming futility of the whole scenario. I could cry for her at times.
Yes I know there are some who aren't bothered but,I would guess the majority want work/careers.

The Irony is we have a young generation can't get work and an older generation that aren't being allowed to get out of it.

As for national service I'm sure it may have a place in society somewhere.

This.

Frankly, as a 22 year old (admittedly in Uni), I haven't come across much of this 16-25 yos are complete f***tards thing. I'm not going to pretend that some of my generation aren't complete f***tards, but to claim that a lot are is missing the mark IMO.

Yes, I see plenty of young people are a bit foolish at times, and occasionally downright dim. But hasn't that always been the case? Besides at the end of the day, children are a product of their environment, you want to look to someone to lay the blame on, blame parents who have done an incredibly shoddy job, and successive governments who have let traditional manufacturing jobs die out and encouraged far too many to go to university to gain degrees of little worth.

The big thing that is increasing more and more, is I think, a general sense of hopelessness amongst the young people in this country. Youth unemployment is massive, and whilst I may stand a reasonable chance of getting a job as an engineering graduate (God willing!), many of my peers don't, not because they don't have the necessary skills/abilities or other such bs. but because they don't get the chance.

I don't think national service is a good idea, I think the government may be on the right(ish) lines with the work experience schemes they're introducing though. Fundamentally though, the issue of youth unemployment is just a massively complex issue.

You are right that it is indeed complex but as a counterpoint to the lack of chances I know of firms stopping apprenticeships because the school leavers they were taking on proved to be unemployable and not necessarily through being thick but because of lateness, manners and generally not being committed and understanding what doing a days work meant. A combination of the education system and whatever parenting they were getting at home had failed them. I suspect some parents think just making sure their child attends school is as much as they need to do to prepare them for life.

There was also a piece on the radio just the other day about some employers running courses to 'de-txt' the language of the younsters they were taking on so they could communicate properly, they struggled with basic english, something I picked up on when some of last years rioters were interviewed, I couldn't understand half of them!

The trouble for me is we don't invest in education in this country, it's not valued enough and Cleat makes a good point too about the education policy we currently have.

daviesee

A lot of very good points being made on here.
As well as a lot of generalisations.

I think the whole problem is getting worse by institutionalised benefits culture. We need to break the circle.
I don't know how. :oops:
Also trash TV promoting getting your 15 minutes, instant "celebrity" and rich before 20 as easy. The gullible think it will happen for them and that is all they need.
It has not always been like this. Up until the early/mid 80s it was perceived as failure to be on the dole, something to be ashamed of and certainly not a lifestyle.

I look at my nieces and nephews and can already see which ones will do well, which ones will "marry well" and which ones will be feckless layabouts. A lot of it has to do with parental guidance, values and role models.

timmyturbo

tim wand wrote:

Guys I m not trolling here,

I ve got serious concerns. Just who's going to put in the PAYE and NI to support state pensions if we ever get a

chance to retire, I cant see many of the current 16-25's wanting or finding a job.

What jobs FFS , and if a child cannot afford £40,000 to do 3 years at UNI or had the grades should we be sending them to MEATHEAD boot-camp? sorry you do sound like meldrew , "WHAT THESE KIDS OF TODAY NEED IS, A SHORT HAIRCUT ,AND A GOOD PAIR OF STIFF TROUSERS , And EAT MORAL FRUIT AND FIBER FOR BREAKFAST " (-:

daviesee

timmyturbo wrote:

..........What jobs FFS , ........

Two seconds on Google -
http://www.jobsite.co.uk/jobs/alnwick
I am sure if I spent more time I could find better jobs available.
The perfect job in the perfect location may not be easy to find but there are jobs out there.

timmyturbo

the unemployed out-way available vacancies 3 times over for 16-25 ! I am 42

Jez mon

verylonglegs wrote:

You are right that it is indeed complex but as a counterpoint to the lack of chances I know of firms stopping apprenticeships because the school leavers they were taking on proved to be unemployable and not necessarily through being thick but because of lateness, manners and generally not being committed and understanding what doing a days work meant. A combination of the education system and whatever parenting they were getting at home had failed them. I suspect some parents think just making sure their child attends school is as much as they need to do to prepare them for life.

There was also a piece on the radio just the other day about some employers running courses to 'de-txt' the language of the younsters they were taking on so they could communicate properly, they struggled with basic english, something I picked up on when some of last years rioters were interviewed, I couldn't understand half of them!

The trouble for me is we don't invest in education in this country, it's not valued enough and Cleat makes a good point too about the education policy we currently have.

I'm sure that the firms stopping apprenticeships has nothing to do with the economic situation, and everything to do with the young people themselves...

It is obvious that the current education system is not as good as it should be, that needs changing. Currently, we have a number of systems, if you're lucky, you get to avoid the state system altogether and get a well rounded (in many senses) education. If you aren't in that position but live near a good grammar school you can be assured of a good (if possibly thoroughly miserable) education.

Otherwise, it's a bit of a lottery, my brother does temp work at state schools, and often it seems to involve more crowd control than actual teaching!

However, I'm not sure what could be done to make the system any better, and often I feel the blame for many failings must lie with the parents. A teacher at my school was retiring having taught there since he graduated, (he had also gone to the school as a boy!) he said that by and large, the boys had always been, and will always be little rascals, what had changed was the attitude of the parents, who increasing blamed the school for any bad behaviour, rather than their children!

daviesee

timmyturbo wrote:

the unemployed out-way available vacancies 3 times over for 16-25 ! I am 42

I am 49. Back in 1979 there were 450 applicants for the 32 jobs available when I went. It is nothing new.
Giving up easy is.

jordan_217

Look at this from another perspective - if you grew up watching your (now 30-40) year old parents never work a hard day in their lives, contribute to society and yet still have a holiday every year, have a mortgage free house and all the latest toys - would you be in a rush to get out and find a job?

It's infuriating but that's society - everything for nothing with no sense of values, principles or integrity.

Yes, I'm all for national service. I joined the forces at 16.5 as I had no prospects and I daren't think were I'd be now. It's not the finite answer to our problems but it, in the majority of cases, would instill a sense of pride that may help people help themselves. I really do symapthise with those genuinely hard working people, with strong qualifications who can't find work. They do exist, I interview a lot of them for jobs but the fact I'm interviewing means there are *some* jobs. Albeit they are scarce.

verylonglegs

Jez mon wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

You are right that it is indeed complex but as a counterpoint to the lack of chances I know of firms stopping apprenticeships because the school leavers they were taking on proved to be unemployable and not necessarily through being thick but because of lateness, manners and generally not being committed and understanding what doing a days work meant. A combination of the education system and whatever parenting they were getting at home had failed them. I suspect some parents think just making sure their child attends school is as much as they need to do to prepare them for life.

There was also a piece on the radio just the other day about some employers running courses to 'de-txt' the language of the younsters they were taking on so they could communicate properly, they struggled with basic english, something I picked up on when some of last years rioters were interviewed, I couldn't understand half of them!

The trouble for me is we don't invest in education in this country, it's not valued enough and Cleat makes a good point too about the education policy we currently have.

I'm sure that the firms stopping apprenticeships has nothing to do with the economic situation, and everything to do with the young people themselves...

Well, one firm I know stopped in 2007 before the recession for the reason I've given and the more recent one decided to pay more and employ already qualified electricians and plumbers rather than put unreliable school leavers through college, so the work is still there. But hey, you just assume I don't know what I'm talking about and go right on.

tim_wand

Timmy Turbo (Firstly hows the Orange bike coming on looking forward to seeing some pics, love it so far)

I Know how difficult employment issues are in the North East, I ve worked on both RAF Boomer and at Acklington and Castington, I now work in educational settings with 11- 16 year olds.

I read an article this week that stated that applicant to vacancy ratio, Hull at 80:1 was the worst.

Mrs W is a manager for Starbucks (Personally I hate the homogenised corporate high street killers), none the less pays our mortgage.

Recent applicants for positions in her store in the age group 18-25 have responded in the following.

Do you have any cash handling experience? I ve got 100% feedback on Ebay
Do you have any references I ve got 500+ friends on Facebook

She will regularly recieve texts stating someone cant make it in today or more often than not peoples Mums coming in telling her that (insert name of person) cant be bothered to come in anymore.

In my position I d like to take some responsibility and hope that I m part of the solution, but your hands are so tied that if you dont give them constant praise for doing nothing more amazing than managing to get out of bed in the morning then your not promoting positivity, you wouldnt even dare consider openly suggesting that they may like to buck up their ideas a little.

It is due to a generation observing their parents and peers being able to succesfully maintain their lives without having to contemplate employment, they really do prescribe to the view "Only fools and horses Work" and there not even old enough to remember when that was Comedy , to them its reality.

15peter20

Why are you picking on the easy targets here? A semi-literate and feckless underclass, living in relative poverty (please don't trot out that much loved myth about living on benefits being easy).

As many have pointed out, there is a massive jobs shortage. The vast majority of 16-25's I come across are polite and hardworking, but then I move in fairly middle class circles. I guess what you mean is that it's the working classes that should be send to boot camp? After all, a lifetime of poor role models and being let down by those that need them most (politicians) could be reversed by a bit of boot polishing and square bashing eh?

There are people in power out there who could make a real difference - who's ethics appear to be self-serving, twisted and corrupted. Politicians, bankers, lawyers...everyone in first class on the gravy train. Oh, and media folk who serve to keep t0ssers like Simon Cowell in ££££££ so he can keep serving our children mindless, quick fix TV crack cocaine.

MaxwellBygraves

Must not bite...must not bite...

d87heaven

I've been looking to employ someone for a while now. The young are no worse than some of the more experienced people I've looked. Not many people seem to want to work.....or even turn up for an interview or a days work.

NickintheLakes

It's either too few jobs or too many people - we are definitely not tackling the latter and incentivise for want of a better word more kids via our tax system.

New jobs are not easy to create, to anyone who bangs on about how jobs ought to be created then try this: get a loan, or increase your mortgage, or borrow money from your parents and then start a company and employ a few people on wages well above the NMW - easy isn't it?