Bus driver jailed for attack on cyclist

sturmey

The cyclist had an altercation with the driver moments before.They no doubt exchanged abusive comments.Tempers were running high.You can see on the cctv footage that the cyclist is 'holding his own' riding well into the centre of the lane,fair enough under normal circumstances except he had an enraged psycho in abus behind him.His best defence would have been to wait until the bus driver had gone on his way after their bust-up. 'I was in the right' is a sad epitaph to put on your gravestone.

notsoblue

sturmey wrote:

The cyclist had an altercation with the driver moments before.They no doubt exchanged abusive comments.Tempers were running high.You can see on the cctv footage that the cyclist is 'holding his own' riding well into the centre of the lane,fair enough under normal circumstances except he had an enraged psycho in abus behind him.His best defence would have been to wait until the bus driver had gone on his way after their bust-up. 'I was in the right' is a sad epitaph to put on your gravestone.

Yeah. He deserved it really. What a slag. He won't p1ss off a bus driver again!

rick_chasey

sturmey wrote:

The cyclist had an altercation with the driver moments before.They no doubt exchanged abusive comments.Tempers were running high.You can see on the cctv footage that the cyclist is 'holding his own' riding well into the centre of the lane,fair enough under normal circumstances except he had an enraged psycho in abus behind him.His best defence would have been to wait until the bus driver had gone on his way after their bust-up. 'I was in the right' is a sad epitaph to put on your gravestone.

If I went around expecting bus drivers to do that I'd never go out of the house.

I get what you're trying to say - avoid the confrontation, but this isn't really a good example to say the point.

You're right, it's always better to avoid the confrontation if you can. However, this stuff will always happen. You need to assume that whatever you say ,you don't get deliberately run over by a bus.

In this instance, you could say the same about the bus driver about avoid a confrontation. He's paying the price for that for sure.

As mentioned on another thread, I once gestured at a driver that he was too close when he passed. Not even a rude gesture, just a Italian style "too close", and I waved at him (sarkily) when I passed.

He then tried to run me over. (wheels screeching etc), and eventually caught up with me, jumped out of the car and kicked me off my bike before kicking me on the floor.

Now was that my fault? No. I should be able to express irritation and concern about driving without having to worry about being assaulted.


As an aside, I also should expect some f*cking WITNESSES TO COME FORWARD but that's a seperate issue.

Team4Luke

Jeez.

Looked like the driver tried to clip him from left-right first, otherwise why didn't he just run into him from behind, he then goes right to left to clip him down proper.
Jail time was at the very least pleasing to see, guessing also the driver will be on the end of a civil case too.
Hope the chap gets back to health and back out there.

sturmey

I should be able to express irritation and concern about driving without having to worry about being assaulted.

'should' being the operative word here.

'Cept we don't live in an ideal world and we can't rely on other people treating us fairly. This was an assault don't forget, and the attacker had a motive and felt provoked. The cyclist effectively put himself at his mercy by riding off in front of him, when he could just as easily have stopped,taken a few deep breaths and waited til the dust had settled.

I get into alteractions every other day with motorists while cycling. Maybe I have led a charmed life but whenever I have given someone a mouthful I am VERY wary of that person and would not put myself in front of them as he did there.A guy squeezed me into the kerb deliberately at a roundabout yesterday entering a dual carriageway.I told him what I thought of him and sure enough he wanted a piece of me,'cept i didn't give him a chance to get near me after that. There are a lot of evil c*nts out there and I don't intend to be one of their victims.
Of course, the rider was very unfortunate to have met with such an aggressive driver as this and the attack was outrageous but it was avoidable,sorry to say that.

Zingzang

It's a little worrying how many people seem incapable of understanding plain English, and infer viewpoints that were never expressed in the first place.

Sturmey's point seems pretty clear to me: not that you shouldn't stand up for yourself on the road, but that if you do, you should think carefully about who is wielding the bigger weapon, and position yourself accordingly until the immediate threat of retaliation has passed.

Rights and wrongs are another issue entirely. It's not difficult to see that, surely.

veronese68

spen666 wrote:

None of the above is to be taken as condoning or deminishing the horrific actions of the bus driver

Yes, completely agree, apalling actions by the driver. I'd hope he's never allowed near anything more dangerous than a teaspoon when he gets out. I was just checking my understanding of the legal reasons for the type of charge.
Regarding the getting out of the way of psychos. It's definitely best to get out of their way if you can, unfortunately when you're wound up this can be rather hard. Then you catch them at the next hold up anyway.

rick_chasey

sturmey wrote:

I should be able to express irritation and concern about driving without having to worry about being assaulted.

'should' being the operative word here.

'Cept we don't live in an ideal world and we can't rely on other people treating us fairly. This was an assault don't forget, and the attacker had a motive and felt provoked. The cyclist effectively put himself at his mercy by riding off in front of him, when he could just as easily have stopped,taken a few deep breaths and waited til the dust had settled.

I get into alteractions every other day with motorists while cycling. Maybe I have led a charmed life but whenever I have given someone a mouthful I am VERY wary of that person and would not put myself in front of them as he did there.A guy squeezed me into the kerb deliberately at a roundabout yesterday entering a dual carriageway.I told him what I thought of him and sure enough he wanted a piece of me,'cept i didn't give him a chance to get near me after that. There are a lot of evil c*nts out there and I don't intend to be one of their victims.
Of course, the rider was very unfortunate to have met with such an aggressive driver as this and the attack was outrageous but it was avoidable,sorry to say that.

So you're advice is get out of the way of nutter drivers? Insightful.

Seems to me that you feel the cyclist has an element of responsibility in getting run over?

That's where we differ.

redvee

Updated report with some footage of a scottish tanker taking on a cyclist

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17069235

sturmey

So you're advice is get out of the way of nutter drivers? Insightful.

So you would rather get in their way instead? Intelligent.

Seems to me that you feel the cyclist has an element of responsibility in getting run over?

He made himself an easy target. Infer what you like about his responsibility for what happened.

Zingzang

Rick Chasey wrote:

So you're advice is get out of the way of nutter drivers? Insightful.

Seems to me that you feel the cyclist has an element of responsibility in getting run over?

Seems to me you're letting righteous indignation cloud your judgement, and finding arguments where there aren't any.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

As mentioned on another thread, I once gestured at a driver that he was too close when he passed. Not even a rude gesture, just a Italian style "too close", and I waved at him (sarkily) when I passed.

Would that be the Italian thumb and forefinger held quite close together? In a way that might have been capable of being interpreted as "Small dick. You have a small dick. About this big"?

EKE_38BPM

Bus drivers are all brain-dead sociopaths, we all know that, but I'm surprised at this driver's actions.
Sturmey is right. It may well be wise to allow the idiot with the 10 tonne+ bus to go past. Bus Vs bike will always only have one winner.
RC and NSB may think that an air of rightous indignation and a layer of lycra protects them from idiots, but it doesn't.

jejv

Rick Chasey wrote:

F*ck me.

I like to think of myself as reasonably balanced when it comes to this kind of thing, but f*ck me, bus drivers are the scum of the earth.

Which circle of scum do they belong in ?

In Cambridge, I find & => expect Stagecoach busses to be aggressively bad. So if there's a blindingly obvious hazard ahead that I want to negotiate slowly and carefully - maybe faster than I would in the car - Mr or Mrs Stagecoach will be right up my @rse, sounding the horn. Seeing that there's a Stagecoach bus coming up behind me is a good reason for cautiously running a red light. Maybe I've stopped, and I see one coming, so I go.

OTOH - all anecdotally - Whippet busses are fine with me.
One Sunday, on a run, we came into one of the villages, and I realised there was a bus a couple of 100m behind us. The high street was narrowed by parked cars. Mr Whippet stayed a non-hassley 50m behind us. Ahh. Thankyou.

Not sure the roadies were even aware of the bus.

The Rookie

While not in any way condoning the bus drivers actions, if you look at what the cyclists is doing he is clearly trying to wind him up, riding right out towards the white line and even heading to go out a lane at one point, really not that sensible to do that in front of a 'lethal weapon'!

Simon

rick_chasey

Greg66 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

As mentioned on another thread, I once gestured at a driver that he was too close when he passed. Not even a rude gesture, just a Italian style "too close", and I waved at him (sarkily) when I passed.

Would that be the Italian thumb and forefinger held quite close together? In a way that might have been capable of being interpreted as "Small dick. You have a small dick. About this big"?

No.

Would it matter if it was?

rick_chasey

jejv wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

F*ck me.

I like to think of myself as reasonably balanced when it comes to this kind of thing, but f*ck me, bus drivers are the scum of the earth.

Which circle of scum do they belong in ?

In Cambridge, I find & => expect Stagecoach busses to be aggressively bad. So if there's a blindingly obvious hazard ahead that I want to negotiate slowly and carefully - maybe faster than I would in the car - Mr or Mrs Stagecoach will be right up my @rse, sounding the horn. Seeing that there's a Stagecoach bus coming up behind me is a good reason for cautiously running a red light. Maybe I've stopped, and I see one coming, so I go.
.

I have many many stories of Cambridge bus drivers (only ever come across stagecoach my way) being very very low individuals.

rick_chasey

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bus drivers are all brain-dead sociopaths, we all know that, but I'm surprised at this driver's actions.
Sturmey is right. It may well be wise to allow the idiot with the 10 tonne+ bus to go past. Bus Vs bike will always only have one winner.
RC and NSB may think that an air of rightous indignation and a layer of lycra protects them from idiots, but it doesn't.

Either you have to expect bus drivers never to run you off the road like that, or you can't be sane and use the road with busses.

What the bus driver does is totally indefensible. I don't care what the cyclist said. For all I care he could have shat in drivers' face (though they probably like that) - still doesn't mean he should get hit like that.

You can't justify any driver doing what this bus driver did. At all.

For sure, it's best to avoid the confrontation, but like I said, that works both ways. Being in charge of a bus doesn't exempt you from that advice either.

peat

I don't want to say 'he brought it on himself' because you couldnt have predicted that the bus driver would commit that appaulling act.

They had an altercation, sure. Exchange some words if you must, then you really have to let it slide or you end up riding like a bell(end) by deliberatley trying to block the driver (which the cyclist was cleary doing in the seconds leading up to the impact).

The cyclist was a dick, but didn't deserve to get get murdered!

Can't beleive the driver only got 17months. People have been given longer sentences for accidentally causing injury.....

sfichele

What a piece of sh*t.

The Times had an article a few days ago about tougher sentencing and merging the law to make it easier to convict for attempted murder.

However, as we've all seen before the judge could have given a stiffer sentence but didn't! 17 months is a joke, considering the damage done to the guy.

W1

Rick Chasey wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bus drivers are all brain-dead sociopaths, we all know that, but I'm surprised at this driver's actions.
Sturmey is right. It may well be wise to allow the idiot with the 10 tonne+ bus to go past. Bus Vs bike will always only have one winner.
RC and NSB may think that an air of rightous indignation and a layer of lycra protects them from idiots, but it doesn't.

Either you have to expect bus drivers never to run you off the road like that, or you can't be sane and use the road with busses.

What the bus driver does is totally indefensible. I don't care what the cyclist said. For all I care he could have shat in drivers' face (though they probably like that) - still doesn't mean he should get hit like that.

You can't justify any driver doing what this bus driver did. At all.

For sure, it's best to avoid the confrontation, but like I said, that works both ways. Being in charge of a bus doesn't exempt you from that advice either.

There is a distinction between "justification" and "reason".

The bus driver could not - ever - "justify" driving like that. However a "reason" for doing so was presumably the altercation with the cyclist. No excuse, but an explanation.

I don't think anyone is saying that the rider "deserved" what happened, but perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided if the "reason" wasn't there?

I let a lot of dangerous driving go with just a shake of the head, simply because there is no benefit in getting into a shouting match with someone, and thereafter I am the vulnerable party.

seataltea

The Daily Fail have the story and their 'readers' generally think cyclists should be run over by buses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -road.html

Paulie W

sturmey wrote:

I should be able to express irritation and concern about driving without having to worry about being assaulted.

'should' being the operative word here.

'Cept we don't live in an ideal world and we can't rely on other people treating us fairly. This was an assault don't forget, and the attacker had a motive and felt provoked. The cyclist effectively put himself at his mercy by riding off in front of him, when he could just as easily have stopped,taken a few deep breaths and waited til the dust had settled.

I get into alteractions every other day with motorists while cycling. Maybe I have led a charmed life but whenever I have given someone a mouthful I am VERY wary of that person and would not put myself in front of them as he did there.A guy squeezed me into the kerb deliberately at a roundabout yesterday entering a dual carriageway.I told him what I thought of him and sure enough he wanted a piece of me,'cept i didn't give him a chance to get near me after that. There are a lot of evil c*nts out there and I don't intend to be one of their victims.
Of course, the rider was very unfortunate to have met with such an aggressive driver as this and the attack was outrageous but it was avoidable,sorry to say that.

You cant have it both ways. If you really believe the world is full of evil c*nts waiting to kill you why on earth do you get into "altercations every other day"? Can we say when during one of these alteractions the driver pulls out a gun and blows your brains out - and there are a lot of Psychos out there remember - that it was avoidable?

rick_chasey

W1 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bus drivers are all brain-dead sociopaths, we all know that, but I'm surprised at this driver's actions.
Sturmey is right. It may well be wise to allow the idiot with the 10 tonne+ bus to go past. Bus Vs bike will always only have one winner.
RC and NSB may think that an air of rightous indignation and a layer of lycra protects them from idiots, but it doesn't.

Either you have to expect bus drivers never to run you off the road like that, or you can't be sane and use the road with busses.

What the bus driver does is totally indefensible. I don't care what the cyclist said. For all I care he could have shat in drivers' face (though they probably like that) - still doesn't mean he should get hit like that.

You can't justify any driver doing what this bus driver did. At all.

For sure, it's best to avoid the confrontation, but like I said, that works both ways. Being in charge of a bus doesn't exempt you from that advice either.

There is a distinction between "justification" and "reason".

The bus driver could not - ever - "justify" driving like that. However a "reason" for doing so was presumably the altercation with the cyclist. No excuse, but an explanation.

I don't think anyone is saying that the rider "deserved" what happened, but perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided if the "reason" wasn't there?

I let a lot of dangerous driving go with just a shake of the head, simply because there is no benefit in getting into a shouting match with someone, and thereafter I am the vulnerable party.

The whole thing could have been avoided had the bus driver not hit him?

I'm not saying the cyclist should go around berating everyone for bad driving, but whatever he does she should not expect to get hit by a bus.

There is never a good reason to get hit by a bus.

Being a tw@t doesn't mean you should get run over.

Everyone's a tw@t occasionally.

W1

Rick Chasey wrote:

W1 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Bus drivers are all brain-dead sociopaths, we all know that, but I'm surprised at this driver's actions.
Sturmey is right. It may well be wise to allow the idiot with the 10 tonne+ bus to go past. Bus Vs bike will always only have one winner.
RC and NSB may think that an air of rightous indignation and a layer of lycra protects them from idiots, but it doesn't.

Either you have to expect bus drivers never to run you off the road like that, or you can't be sane and use the road with busses.

What the bus driver does is totally indefensible. I don't care what the cyclist said. For all I care he could have shat in drivers' face (though they probably like that) - still doesn't mean he should get hit like that.

You can't justify any driver doing what this bus driver did. At all.

For sure, it's best to avoid the confrontation, but like I said, that works both ways. Being in charge of a bus doesn't exempt you from that advice either.

There is a distinction between "justification" and "reason".

The bus driver could not - ever - "justify" driving like that. However a "reason" for doing so was presumably the altercation with the cyclist. No excuse, but an explanation.

I don't think anyone is saying that the rider "deserved" what happened, but perhaps the whole thing could have been avoided if the "reason" wasn't there?

I let a lot of dangerous driving go with just a shake of the head, simply because there is no benefit in getting into a shouting match with someone, and thereafter I am the vulnerable party.

The whole thing could have been avoided had the bus driver not hit him?

I'm not saying the cyclist should go around berating everyone for bad driving, but whatever he does she should not expect to get hit by a bus.

There is never a good reason to get hit by a bus.

Being a tw@t doesn't mean you should get run over.

Everyone's a tw@t occasionally.

It's almost as if you didn't bother reading what I said.

rick_chasey

W1 wrote:

It's almost as if you didn't bother reading what I said.

It's because what you're saying is erroneous.


Had the cyclist broken any laws?

Doesn't seem like it. He's not been arrested, or fined.

So why should he get hit? He shouldn't. That's all there is to it. If you think there is, than you're apologising for the actions of the driver, which is indefensible.

The problem here is that the bus driver hit him, not that the bus driver was wound up by the cyclist. I get wound up all the time (even on here, believe or not) but I don't use it as a pretext to assault someone!

sfichele

seataltea wrote:

The Daily Fail have the story and their 'readers' generally think cyclists should be run over by buses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -road.html

Yeah I know the bus driver was in the wrong - but these bandit cyclists who ride on the pavement they don't pay road tax, init, so if he got run over it is them faults, yeah, init /daily_tw@ts

bails87

sturmey wrote:

[The cyclist effectively put himself at his mercy by riding off in front of him, when he could just as easily have stopped,taken a few deep breaths and waited til the dust had settled. .

I stopped and took a few deep breaths to let a driver go past, and he jumped out and punched me.

And who was it who said "bus drivers are scum"....that's a bit silly. This bus driver is scum, I've only ever experienced good driving from them. I know some are bad, as with any group, but plenty are good too, round here at least.

Stevo_666

Zingzang wrote:

It's a little worrying how many people seem incapable of understanding plain English, and infer viewpoints that were never expressed in the first place.

Sturmey's point seems pretty clear to me: not that you shouldn't stand up for yourself on the road, but that if you do, you should think carefully about who is wielding the bigger weapon, and position yourself accordingly until the immediate threat of retaliation has passed.

Rights and wrongs are another issue entirely. It's not difficult to see that, surely.

+1

Sturmey was just trying to give some sensible 'stay safe' advice for the real world, without in any way condoning what the bus driver did. It's amazing how often sh1t fights break out in this forum over nothing.

bails87

Stevo 666 wrote:

Zingzang wrote:

It's a little worrying how many people seem incapable of understanding plain English, and infer viewpoints that were never expressed in the first place.

Sturmey's point seems pretty clear to me: not that you shouldn't stand up for yourself on the road, but that if you do, you should think carefully about who is wielding the bigger weapon, and position yourself accordingly until the immediate threat of retaliation has passed.

Rights and wrongs are another issue entirely. It's not difficult to see that, surely.

+1

Sturmey was just trying to give some sensible 'stay safe' advice for the real world, without in any way condoning what the bus driver did. It's amazing how often sh1t fights break out in this forum over nothing.

I agree. Sometimes it's better to just let stuff go, not because standing up for yourself is wrong, but because it's just not worth it.