Marco Pantani
Comments
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lostboysaint wrote:I'm with Rick. I have the book and was staggered at the volume of and effot that went into his doping. But I still look at those rides and think "wow" simply because just about everyone in the peloton was up to their eyeballs as well so the playing field was essentially level - albeit at an artificially high level!
I dont particularly want to get into a PEDs discussion but isnt Rendell's point that some people benefitted much more from PEDs than others, that Pantani was transformed from a moderate to good junior into a world beater. Others were no doubt up to their eyeballs but not everyone was reaping the same benefits.0 -
andyp wrote:Not the it was okay because it was a level playing field argument again. :roll:
A little bit of reading around the subject of how people respond differently to the same drug will soon make you conclude that it wasn't a level playing field.
Even more pertinently, the use of EPO and HGH were both banned at the time so all those who doped, and, lest we forget, some never did, were cheating.
Rendall makes that very point towards the end.
Was a brilliant book.
The problem is, however much you know about doping and whatever, I personally find it quite difficult to emotionally link that to what I see on the bike, since it seems so removed. Ultimately, we still see a dude riding a bike, drugs or not.0 -
You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.0 -
dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
Because apart from Hautacam, and possibly 'the look', Lance didn't do any romantic rides. (His high-cadence with enormous calves style was also particularly ugly. For a world beating cyclist he was a big guy with a long upper body. Doesn't help)
You could say the same for Indurain, but I think only the Spanish really romanticise him.0 -
dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
Does anyone romanticise Ullrich!!??0 -
Paulie W wrote:dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
Does anyone romanticise Ullrich!!??
Me.
A bit.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Paulie W wrote:dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
Does anyone romanticise Ullrich!!??
Me.
A bit.
Each to their own I guess!0 -
Paulie W wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Paulie W wrote:dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
Does anyone romanticise Ullrich!!??
Me.
A bit.
Each to their own I guess!
We all like/are interested guys who are (or appear to be) physically ultra talented, but with significant (and ideally relate able) mental chinks.
Ulle's was obvious. Liked eating, and was never ever as confident as he needed to be to win after Les Deux Alpes.0 -
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dougzz wrote:You still have to go wow when you watch it, it's extraordinary.
Not to hijack the thread but what I still don't fully understand is why so many find it OK to romanticise Pantani, Ullrich and Indurain, but no one seems to have the wow for Lance any more. It was just as awesome as a bike ride, is it the bullying, the only the TdF matters, the USA, or maybe just that he did it so successfully.
I agree about Rendell's book, very very good.
My take - the postive and negative reasons to romanticise and in romantic order:
Pantani: + he died (all the greated people in history are dead) + he was an attacking mountain climbing rider in an age of dull TTers + he won the tdf in spectacular fashion +he had massive ups and downs -lots of drugs
Ulrich +always finished second +got caught doping and has essentially admitted to drug use +did the big gear thing to romantic extreme -rarely attacked -lots of drugs
Armstrong: +recovered from cancer -won everything -only raced the tdf --got away with the drugs -relied on his team to drop everyone on the final climb +did attack eventually +had some character (even if not very pleasant)
Indurain: -dull TTer who rarely attacked -won everything -seemed robotic +won the Giro / Tour double +tried to win the Worlds0 -
When I read and watch Pantani, I think about Ricco and worry.
We romanticise Pantani, but he idolises him, and his life is going in a similar direction.0 -
The Pantani (pink) museum in his home town of Cesenatico, it is amazing that he does retain a following, right after he passed away I visited his website and you know, they and you might see them on ebay from time to time, sold special Pantani / Pirate bandanas.
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.c ... ntani.html
I don't know who made it a "fashion statement", Cipollini or Pantani or who did it first but I think they made it popular some with cyclists, I'd even see people out there wearing them on the bike.
I was reading the other day on why he was popular, individual, a bit mystic. Not quite a throwback to the old days but was not corporate whereas it does seem some riders nowadays are corporate.
Re read the 2nd half of the Rendell book the other day to try to absorb the science in it and there is a lot in there.
Then, I've got the Velo Press book and it has an interview with the Danish girl he was so in love with.
He seemed like half sports star, half rock star and the end in a way is a bit like that of some rock stars, maybe not exactly but reminds me of that a bit. And in other ways, he was an addict and I reread the Rendell book and his parents would not oblige him to be sent to rehabilitation and that was really what he needed, to be committed to Rehab to work those demons out, he went some voluntarily but still went back to his old ways. Like Maradona, Pantani had lots of money so they really needed to get strict with Pantani, I'm pretty sure it was compulsory for Maradona to get treatment. That is what Marco needed.
It's a bit odd, Coppi could have been saved if he had received the right medical treatment, thus it is for Pantani too I would conjecture.
I knew he met Maradona, I reread that part, he went to where Maradona was undergoing rehab according to Rendell and talked to Maradona over the fence, I had the mistaken idea Pantani was in rehab in Cuba, but no, he went and found Maradona for himself. Maradona has commented on when he met Pantani as well. I believe Diego attributes at least some of Pantani's problems to the press drilling him but hey, look it up for yourself.
Something about him, Pantani, is fascinating, I made sure I got it and I still have it, the Cycle Sport memoriam issue for Pantani. I've got to say I think he's still the 2nd most popular in cycling in the last 20 years, maybe I'm wrong but I see it that way. That's debatable after all, Contador may have more press clippings, may be more commercially viable. I'm not sure, Armstrong, Contador, Marco, Cavendish, all.
Ian has mentioned the Ronchi book disparagingly, Ronchi, a woman was his agent and yeah, I'd probably find it hard to go through that book again as well, it probably wanders too much.0 -
In Spanish and Italian, really these articles are praise for Pantani while a lot of us English speakers might say, "Yeah, but...."
http://blogs.terra.es/blogs/cuentakilom ... terno.aspx He saved the Tour from Darkness and will always be remembered for this. Think that is the gist of that article, the Festina affair Tour where things looked bad.
http://sport.it.msn.com/news/news994479.html What a year with Pantani!
http://www.cesenatoday.it/sport/marco-p ... iorni.html This is from his hometown newspaper.
http://www.ciclonline.com/gran-fondo-ro ... mento.html Remembering Pantani newly.
Despite it all, got to say it, he is seen by many as a legend, leyenda. Probably seen that way more in Italy and Spain, maybe some other countries.0 -
So that's why so many hate him!Rick Chasey wrote:His high-cadence with enormous calves style was also particularly ugly. For a world beating cyclist he was a big guy with a long upper body.0 -
bompington wrote:
So that's why so many hate him!Rick Chasey wrote:His high-cadence with enormous calves style was also particularly ugly. For a world beating cyclist he was a big guy with a long upper body.
Ha :P
You know what I mean.
If he was a sexy graceful guy on the bike, we'd be a little more sympathetic.0 -
phreak wrote:The rider that got me interested in cycling. His ride to les Deux Alpes was legendary. Managed to do that ride during the Marco Pantani Memorial Sportive last August, where I saw this guy.
At 6am in the morning it was quite a shock. Thought Il Pirata had been reincarnated
i got a jersey just like that one..0 -
I'm sure this has been posted before, but for those who haven't seen it, here is Guido Belcanto singing to Marco Pantani. Strangely beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz_c_0ZhaoA0 -
phreak wrote:The rider that got me interested in cycling. His ride to les Deux Alpes was legendary. Managed to do that ride during the Marco Pantani Memorial Sportive last August, where I saw this guy.
At 6am in the morning it was quite a shock. Thought Il Pirata had been reincarnated
That is some photo, on a Bianchi, a helmet ready for surely wearing during the ride. Champion stripes, nice helmet at that.
At 1.72 meters, Marco wasn't as short as I thought he would have been: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Pantani0 -
Regardless of everything, give me a video of Pantani ripping a race apart and I will be happy. It has no relevance that he was doped up massively. It is still a joy to watch as he had personality on the bike and was very likeable. Stylish into the bargain too, with lots of flair.Contador is the Greatest0
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Go on Frenchie, I know you're dying to compare him to Contador!"I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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He just did:inkyfingers wrote:Go on Frenchie, I know you're dying to compare him to Contador!
;-)frenchfighter wrote:It has no relevance that he was doped up massively0 -
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Helmets is one thing but during his career, Pantani must have ridden steel and aluminium and nowadays there are other materials they ride bicycles on. Steel looks classic, this must be a Pantani styled Bianchi but I doubt if it is the same one he rode. This one must be aluminium.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:F*ck me watching cycling was so much better when they didn't have helmets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WETnJcopY
Local race on part of the Nove Colli sportive course.0 -
Le Commentateur wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:F*ck me watching cycling was so much better when they didn't have helmets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WETnJcopY
Local race on part of the Nove Colli sportive course.
:P They're not helmets. That's just a load of sausages banded together.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Regardless of everything, give me a video of Pantani ripping a race apart and I will be happy. It has no relevance that he was doped up massively. It is still a joy to watch as he had personality on the bike and was very likeable. Stylish into the bargain too, with lots of flair.
What you mean is that you choose to ignore it. To say that it has no relevance is technically incorrect because his doping enabled him to rip the race apart and to ride with 'flair' so it is directly relevant.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:For a world beating cyclist he was a big guy with a long upper body.
Sounds just like me (but a bit faster.)Rick Chasey wrote:F*ck me watching cycling was so much better when they didn't have helmets.
+1. those were the days.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote::P They're not helmets. That's just a load of sausages banded together.
And that's good right? You can eat them as your riding along. Just don't use to much "hair product".0
