JTL

mike6

mroli wrote:

Yates, Rogers? Why did they leave? Who knows.

Yates left because he wanted to spend less time away, was getting stressed out working for Sky - he has made his position clear in his book. Whether you chose to believe him or not is your prerogative - I think I know what you will think - but he is pretty adamant and clear (if you want, I'll find what he said EXACTLY and post it here).

Rogers left for money: "I was negotiating and I was still negotiating with Sky and we came close to a deal but at the end of the day there was simply a better offer for me at Saxo Bank," Rogers told Cyclingnews at the Dauphine.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/move-to-saxo-tinkoff-strictly-financial-says-rogers

If you mean "who knows REALLY", well, I'd suggest that unless Dave Brailsford came out and said "we kicked them out for historical doping and Yates was on EPO to drive the car and Rogers was injecting the whole team", people would not be happy.

Oh yeah - and you said you want a clear statement from Team Sky in relation to JTL

A simple issuing of a statement from Sky in relation to the matter

:

"We have no doubts over his performance, behaviour or tests at Team Sky and understand any anomaly is in readings taken before he joined the team," Team Sky said in a statement.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/29/team-sky-jonathan-tiernan-locke-cycling

You are wasting your time mate. They don't want "A statement", they want a statement that agrees with there immovable stance that Sky are, and always have been, doping. Until that day this nonsense will continue, round in circles. :roll:

mroli

Yeah - I said as much in my post. I don't care if they think Sky are doping or not. Accusations can be banded around as much as people want. I have no vested interest in Sky - I am not a supporter, they're not my team.

But just the simplest amount of reading shows that what WBT wants - ie statements in relation to why things have been done are there. Now if he's saying they are lying - fine. I don't care. But he's on here having a pop at Walsh for inaccuracies when 5 seconds remembering articles or books or even googling answers his own questions/accusations.

rayjay

mroli wrote:

You don't know what my opinions are Rayjay and certainly I know far better than to place all my faith in people that I do not know from Adam. Did I say I believed them. No. Did I say anything about them hiring Leinders. No. Wind your neck in.

I'm just stating what the position has been in relation to the questions raised by Whiteboytrash:

"Has a clear statement been issued in relation to JTL" - yes. See above.

"Have both Yates and Rodgers stated themselves why they left Sky" - yes.

Here is Yates in his own words:

"It took a moment for his words to sink in. I was amazed to be told that I needed protecting. As far as I was concerned I could hold my head high. I was not implicated in the USADA report, and had no involvement in the catalogue of Lance's mis-demeanours beyond the fact that we were friends and that we'd been teammates before his Tour de France reign had begun..... I felt disgusted that I could be forced out of my job, be deprived of my ability to provide for my family, not by my employers, but by rumours and internet forums. There was nothing from anybody who knew me, nothing about me in this immense investigation, just opinion and conjecture from people with no connection with me whatsoever."

"We drafted a press announcement that would explain that I was retiring for health and family reasons and that I strongly denied suggestions that I had ever doped or been involved in doping"

There is a due process for deciding whether someone is doping or not. JTL is going through that at the moment. I hope he is cleared because I liked how he raised that last year with Endura and it was a great story. If he is found guilty of charges, then I will view him in exactly the same was as other convicted riders/athletes.

Fair enough mroli.

But I would reason that you believe that both rider/ ex rider have always been clean. or why would you post a statement without any comment saying different. It was in Sky's and those they Hire's defence.

If I am wrong about your personal view and was a bit quick off the mark then I Apologise.

mroli

It was not in defence of either of them. It was in relation to the comment made by WBT saying "why did Rodgers/Yates leave Sky". Reasons have been given. Chose to believe those reasons if you will or not, but they are out there.

My suspicions about doping in cycling are (in part) informed by my knowledge of doping in sport generally and as I said, and will keep on saying, unless I know the individual athlete, there is no way that I can state that they are clean. However, I also believe that unless you know that they are dirty (and I mean know, rather than just assume because some bloke you have never met on an internet forum told you) then you shouldn't throw mud.

Thank you for the apology.

rayjay

Mike 6 , IMO this is not about Sky doping.

This is about a rider who's Bio Passport shows some oddity's.

His results from that year 2012 where outstanding compared to his previous years.

My concern his that Sky will put pressure on those concerned to clear JTL if he has done wrong.

It would not look good for Sky if he his found guilty even though they hired him after the bio oddity.

mroli

How are they going to do this rayjay?

ddraver

A variation on the Politician's Fallacy:-

Brailsford is bald

Barry the Baptist from lock stock is bald

Ergo Brailsford is a gangster!

The logic is as foolproof as anything rayjay or wbt have posted so far...

dsoutar

This thread certainly feels like groundhog day, however 6 more weeks of bollox being posted might be more appropriate...

rayjay

mroli wrote:

How are they going to do this rayjay?

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

tailwindhome

If JTL has been doping prior to joining Sky, has been unable to continue doping while at Sky and therefore unable to maintain his 2012 results......does that not show Sky in a good light?

RichN95.

rayjay wrote:

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

Given that it was a News International newspaper that broke the story in the first place, it seems unlikely to me.

Turfle

rayjay wrote:

mroli wrote:

How are they going to do this rayjay?

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

At least you're keeping an open mind. Non-negative stuff about them? Must be bought.

And what Rich and TWH said.

mfin

" Mr Tiernan-Locke, as a Sky rider, it is decreed that in December you will undergo 'Trial by nutter' "

whiteboytrash

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15952 ... rtain.aspx

JTL and Sky still not talking.

"it is believed" that it could be down to "sickness".

Really?

Sky are still at "never tested positive".

Let's see.

feltkuota

RichN95 wrote:

rayjay wrote:

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

Given that it was a News International newspaper that broke the story in the first place, it seems unlikely to me.

Yeah, but you're applying logic. Rayjay and WBT do not like logic.

Turfle

STILL not talked? Come on, Sky, the whole bloody process will be allowed to run its course before you get to say anything entirely inconsequential that will nonetheless be misrepresented by anonymous folk in the clinic.

blazing_saddles

whiteboytrash wrote:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15952/Tiernan-Locke-training-with-Team-Sky-but-future-still-uncertain.aspx

JTL and Sky still not talking.

"it is believed" that it could be down to "sickness".

Really?

Sky are still at "never tested positive".

Let's see.

Shane Stokes, not exactly a Sky fan, right?

Contacted in recent weeks, his team, his agent and the UCI have all declined to comment on the matter, saying that it is an ongoing process.

Even he gets it.

tailwindhome

How does

whiteboytrash wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The UCI investigate under their code, which affords the rider privacy at this time, then publicly release their decision.
Sky then "act", if necessary, in response to said UCI findings.
Why is their any confusion over this?
I suspect the answer is that there isn't.

This I agree with, absolutely. 100%.

Become

whiteboytrash wrote:

JTL and Sky still not talking.

Turfle

This I agree with, absolutely. 10%

Macaloon

whiteboytrash wrote:

JTL and Sky still not talking.

Meanwhile it's completely normal for due process and legal protections to be applied in the Specialized case
:shock: :shock: 8) :twisted: :P :twisted: 8) :shock: :shock:

Richmond Racer

Macaloon wrote:

whiteboytrash wrote:

JTL and Sky still not talking.

Meanwhile it's completely normal for due process and legal protections to be applied in the Specialized case
:shock: :shock: 8) :twisted: :P :twisted: 8) :shock: :shock:

Excellent deployment of an emoticon palindrome, Maca

whiteboytrash

feltkuota wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

rayjay wrote:

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

Given that it was a News International newspaper that broke the story in the first place, it seems unlikely to me.

Yeah, but you're applying logic. Rayjay and WBT do not like logic.

Often depends what that logic is, yes?

If you wish to apply the logic that there's nothing to see here then yes your logic may indeed be correct.

But if you apply logic that questions should be asked and those questions are not being answered then there is a problem.

My suggestion would be to use history as your guide when applying logic to pro cycling.

Generally when it smells like a rat. It is a rat.

feltkuota

whiteboytrash wrote:

feltkuota wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

rayjay wrote:

Sky are a huge organization. They don't have the best reputation and I would not be surprised if they are trying to exert pressure on those concerned if there is anything for JTL to answer for and shows them in a bad light.

I don't see how that can be far fetched considering the court case going on right now and Sky's manipulation of the media.

Given that it was a News International newspaper that broke the story in the first place, it seems unlikely to me.

Yeah, but you're applying logic. Rayjay and WBT do not like logic.

Often depends what that logic is, yes?

If you wish to apply the logic that there's nothing to see here then yes your logic may indeed be correct.

But if you apply logic that questions should be asked and those questions are not being answered then there is a problem.

My suggestion would be to use history as your guide when applying logic to pro cycling.

Generally when it smells like a rat. It is a rat.

Wholeheartedly agree you're a rat.

whiteboytrash

Macaloon wrote:

whiteboytrash wrote:

JTL and Sky still not talking.

Meanwhile it's completely normal for due process and legal protections to be applied in the Specialized case
:shock: :shock: 8) :twisted: :P :twisted: 8) :shock: :shock:

Of course. And agreed.

The same in the JTL case.

No one is asking for the process to be circumvented.

What is being requested from a team with a ZTP (which no one has seen) is to make a statement on a rider who is suspected of doping.

That is what would be expected from a team with a anti-doping policy, surely?

If indeed JTP has been sick or contracted BadZhilla for the few short days of his test then we as the public should know.

Due process and what is in the public interest are mutually exclusive.

whiteboytrash

feltkuota wrote:

whiteboytrash wrote:

feltkuota wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

rayjay wrote:

Generally when it smells like a rat. It is a rat.

Wholeheartedly agree you're a rat.

I often find that when one cannot construct mature and meaningful arguments they tend to descend into insults.

But this is a personal matter for you to address.

whiteboytrash

TailWindHome wrote:

If JTL has been doping prior to joining Sky, has been unable to continue doping while at Sky and therefore unable to maintain his 2012 results......does that not show Sky in a good light?

I don't think "showing Sky in a good light" is in question.

Who cares. Stay on topic.

What IS in question is Mr. TL.

Who has a passport irregularity. Why does he have this issue?

Why won't Sky comment on the situation? Are they concerned about further questions?

I don't know but I think we are owned an answer.

Do you want to know TailWindHome?

Macaloon

whiteboytrash wrote:

Hogwash

Reading and responding to your posts is an utterly dispiriting exercise. Goodbye.

cougie

What can sky say ? They aren't the ones analysing the passport.

The only thing to say at the moment is nothing - at least until the results come back.

Same thing with court cases - they don't comment on that until we have a verdict. Its a simple concept ?

frenchfighter

Gee this thread is dull. Time to spice it up.


www.simonkeitch.com

whiteboytrash

cougie wrote:

What can sky say ? They aren't the ones analysing the passport.

The only thing to say at the moment is nothing - at least until the results come back.

Same thing with court cases - they don't comment on that until we have a verdict. Its a simple concept ?

I'm not aware of a concept of not commenting in court cases, no? Whereby does the law forbid participants talking? (with the exception of jury deliberation).

If one that public interest is important then there is nothing prohibiting a participant talking or making a statement.