Save The NHS - Drop The Bill

Frank the tank

There is nothing truer than the saying.

You don't know what you have until it's gone.

You didn't really think I could keep my nose out of this one did you.

Anything state run, and the tories will inherently hate it. Whether it's good or bad.

I would hate to disappoint.

MaxwellBygraves

Lansley has broken his silence on the reforms in an article published today, see below.

http://www.hsj.co.uk/comment/opinion/an ... 88.article

Hopefully you can all see through the dressed up language, similar in style to that in the Tory manifesto which promised no change in the first place, which basically can be condensed down into "No-ones making big money out of the NHS (yet) so we need to change this because some private healthcare firms are paying me to say so."

bompington

Come to think of it, if we dropped the Bill, Eastenders, X-factor and 95% of the crap on our TV screens, might that go some way towards reducing costs and so saving the nhs? Sadly I'm not optimistic that this will happen, or that people would do anything healthier instead.

MaxwellBygraves

Frank the tank wrote:

There is nothing truer than the saying.

You don't know what you have until it's gone.

You didn't really think I could keep my nose out of this one did you.

Anything state run, and the tories will inherently hate it. Whether it's good or bad.

I would hate to disappoint.

Nice one Frank.

Frank the tank

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

MaxwellBygraves

Excellent (and funny) article by Mark Steel in the Indie on NHS privatisation - http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 87733.html

MaxwellBygraves

Did anyone catch Panorama on tonight? Had a section health. Had interview with a low-paid construction worker who had a chronic intestine infection yet had never seen a doctor as he couldn't afford it. After getting the opportunity for a free diagnosis from a doctor, he was told an operation to correct the problem would cost $20,000. Yep, $20,000. Needless to say he couldn't afford the operation. Heartbreaking stuff. Anyone else watch?

sfichele

Yep, just seen it!

- 50 million people without medical insurance.

- Car park full of 500 extremely poor people being treated by volunteer doctors.

Frank the tank wrote:

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

^^THIS

MaxwellBygraves

sfichele wrote:

Yep, just seen it!

- 50 million people without medical insurance.

- Car park full of 500 extremely poor people being treated by volunteer doctors.

Frank the tank wrote:

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

^^THIS

Disgusting, wasn't it?

The bit that really upset me was the bit when they asked the Presidential candidates 'what should happen to a man who falls into a coma but can't afford treatment? Should he be left to die?'

The candidates just shrugged and several audience members shouted "yes!!". Absolutely insane.

verylonglegs

I'm not sure where I stand on this, I whole-heartedly subscribe to the ideaology of healthcare for all but the NHS in it's current form is dogsh1t from my own experience, the last two occasions I needed it I had to resort to reaching for the cheque book and going private to sort problems out (if you suspect your GP is wrong you have little option). I believe the system is unable to meet the demands placed upon it currently and we already have a two-tier system by accident rather than design as those who find the current service inadequate and can afford to do so will pay for better treatment.

Neiltb makes an important point in so far as we are at a moment where it needs a thorough assessment as to where we go from here given the fact the NHS was concieved in a social situation much different to today. That's not to say I think this new bill is progress, I haven't read much about it yet and when profit is introduced into something it sets my alarm bells ringing, but I would much rather there was a political party that was able to be brutally honest and tell people what a decent health service really costs rather than this fudge we have now.

MattC59

I like turtles..............

bagpusscp

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

sfichele wrote:

Yep, just seen it!

- 50 million people without medical insurance.

- Car park full of 500 extremely poor people being treated by volunteer doctors.

Frank the tank wrote:

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

^^THIS

Disgusting, wasn't it?

On holiday in the USA a couple of years ago.Main topic of conversation was how much tax we paid over in the UK. As a Country founded on a war about tax ...the Boston tea etc...All of was of no susprize.The land of the free....but only if you are loaded......They have a big heart in many cases but its tough if you are down on your luck.
July the 4 th what is that all about....... come on get real. What date did the Romans leave.

The bit that really upset me was the bit when they asked the Presidential candidates 'what should happen to a man who falls into a coma but can't afford treatment? Should he be left to die?'

The candidates just shrugged and several audience members shouted "yes!!". Absolutely insane.

MaxwellBygraves

Woo, the petition has hit 70,000 now. Thank you so much if you signed it.

Still need 100,000 though so spread the word, tell friends and family, get the dog to sign it if you have to

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22670

400 health professional send letter to Cameron calling for him to drop the bill - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/40 ... gM.twitter

MaxwellBygraves

Another post from that hippy left-wing institution the Daily Mail calling time on Lansley and the health bill - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... h-too.html

Even Tories are hating on the Tory health bill

pliptrot

Thanks to MaxwellBygraves for posting this. It's a shame some seem to wish only to pour opprobrium on such considered posts. Of course, we all should be grateful to those who stoop to such compromises as reading what is offered.

I was going to post some links to some facts and figures about the US health care system (industry) - having had some expreience with it I thought I might contribute - but evidently that will garner me just abuse. Suffice to say that my opinion is that any move away from health care that is free at the point of delivery is wrong. The US system is as close to a market driven system as is possible, and it is obscenely inefficient and absurdly expensive. The US spends more public money on health care than the UK and it manifestly fails by pretty much any measure. As usual, if you have the money there, you gain access to the best care. But you need a lot, and Cameron and his chums are openly hostile to those who don't have a lot. And I hate to think of being anything but rich when they've finished with the NHS.

Pross

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

sfichele wrote:

Yep, just seen it!

- 50 million people without medical insurance.

- Car park full of 500 extremely poor people being treated by volunteer doctors.

Frank the tank wrote:

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

^^THIS

Disgusting, wasn't it?

The bit that really upset me was the bit when they asked the Presidential candidates 'what should happen to a man who falls into a coma but can't afford treatment? Should he be left to die?'

The candidates just shrugged and several audience members shouted "yes!!". Absolutely insane.

I've always considered my views as centre right but after watching that last night I would probably be accussed of being a communist over there. It was absolutely disgusting and I feel that is why no politician, wearing any coloured rosette, would advocate abolishing the NHS in this country despite all the scare stories and political rhetoric. If they did they would soon be out of office and not back for a very long time. The political analyst who was arguing there is no true poverty as kids are not starving was offensive when they were interviewing that traumatised girl who had eaten rat when her mum ran out of food. It's frightening that the US is an economy and political system that so many hold up as being something to aspire to!

MaxwellBygraves

pliptrot wrote:

Thanks to MaxwellBygraves for posting this. It's a shame some seem to wish only to pour opprobrium on such considered posts. Of course, we all should be grateful to those who stoop to such compromises as reading what is offered.

I was going to post some links to some facts and figures about the US health care system (industry) - having had some expreience with it I thought I might contribute - but evidently that will garner me just abuse. Suffice to say that my opinion is that any move away from health care that is free at the point of delivery is wrong. The US system is as close to a market driven system as is possible, and it is obscenely inefficient and absurdly expensive. The US spends more public money on health care than the UK and it manifestly fails by pretty much any measure. As usual, if you have the money there, you gain access to the best care. But you need a lot, and Cameron and his chums are openly hostile to those who don't have a lot. And I hate to think of being anything but rich when they've finished with the NHS.

Thanks. Please share what you have, I'm sure it will be very interesting.

MaxwellBygraves

Pross wrote:

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

sfichele wrote:

Yep, just seen it!

- 50 million people without medical insurance.

- Car park full of 500 extremely poor people being treated by volunteer doctors.

Frank the tank wrote:

What makes it worse is the government has no mandate from the public for these reforms to a service we all depend on.

^^THIS

Disgusting, wasn't it?

The bit that really upset me was the bit when they asked the Presidential candidates 'what should happen to a man who falls into a coma but can't afford treatment? Should he be left to die?'

The candidates just shrugged and several audience members shouted "yes!!". Absolutely insane.

I've always considered my views as centre right but after watching that last night I would probably be accussed of being a communist over there. It was absolutely disgusting and I feel that is why no politician, wearing any coloured rosette, would advocate abolishing the NHS in this country despite all the scare stories and political rhetoric. If they did they would soon be out of office and not back for a very long time. The political analyst who was arguing there is no true poverty as kids are not starving was offensive when they were interviewing that traumatised girl who had eaten rat when her mum ran out of food. It's frightening that the US is an economy and political system that so many hold up as being something to aspire to!

Your right on every point there Pross, but privatisation has been creeping up on the NHS slowly, bit by bit. Most non-essential services such as cleaning and food are privatised, plus we use private contractors to build new hospitals (PFI). This bill is another step in that direction towards a full market driven NHS and it's unacceptable. Your right that it should be political suicide to do this to the NHS, but only if people get angry about it. If we let it happen as "it's not a big deal, just another scare story" which is what Cameron is banking on, then we will only have ourselves to blame further down the line for letting them get away with it.

MaxwellBygraves

Wow!! 15,000 signatures in just one day! Amazing! Keep signing and sharing, thanks of you already have. Nearly there!

MaxwellBygraves

I can't believe it, the amount of people that have signed the petition is immense. I'm pleased to say that it's reached the magic 100K mark now. Thanks to you if you signed, it really made a difference.

What next?

Well it would be great if we could keep people signing the petition - the more voices we get the more weight it adds to our cause.

We've made the first small step, have to keep up the pressure. On the 22/02 there will be a debate & vote on the publication of the NHS risk register in the HoC - if it's published, it will show how the reforms are likely to cost us money rather than save anything but Lansley and Cameron have witheld it's publication.

All MP's from whatever party have the opportunity to vote. The next step is to send an email, tweet or communication encouraging them to vote in favour of the risk register publication. If I can get hold of a generic copy and paste job I will post it here, but literally a line or two saying 'please vote for the publication of the NHS risk register on the 22/02 in parliament' will suffice.

Thanks.

Richard_D

Maxwell don't get me started I have seen Governments of all colours let ideology get in the way of what is best for the country and the NHS.

To sort out my stance Politically I am fairly in the Centre. I see the sense in both free market and government ownership. And with respect to other items I am married to a GP with kids of University age.

This bill is NOT giving control of the health service to GPs if it was it might be acceptable. It is giving it to consortiums of GPs that represent 250,000 patients as each GP has a patient list of about 2500 so it does not take a genius to work out what influence a single GP or even a single GP practise( usually between 4 to 7 GPs) will have on medical business decisions. It is a flim flam to blame GPs for any future problems. This is why the British Medical Assocoiation and the Royal College of General Practioners have come out against it.
With Consortiums of this size, whilst they may work in the larger cities they will not work for most of the country where the requirements for a rural population are vastly diferent to the urban one. To use a slogan used by the BMA 15 years ago. How can it be called a local anaesthetic if the hospital is 50 miles away.

MaxwellBygraves

Richard_D wrote:

Maxwell don't get me started I have seen Governments of all colours let ideology get in the way of what is best for the country and the NHS.

To sort out my stance Politically I am fairly in the Centre. I see the sense in both free market and government ownership. And with respect to other items I am married to a GP with kids of University age.

This bill is NOT giving control of the health service to GPs if it was it might be acceptable. It is giving it to consortiums of GPs that represent 250,000 patients as each GP has a patient list of about 2500 so it does not take a genius to work out what influence a single GP or even a single GP practise( usually between 4 to 7 GPs) will have on medical business decisions. It is a flim flam to blame GPs for any future problems. This is why the British Medical Assocoiation and the Royal College of General Practioners have come out against it.
With Consortiums of this size, whilst they may work in the larger cities they will not work for most of the country where the requirements for a rural population are vastly diferent to the urban one. To use a slogan used by the BMA 15 years ago. How can it be called a local anaesthetic if the hospital is 50 miles away.

Thanks for the post, appreciate your input!

For anyone who wants to sign, here is the link for the petition over the risk register - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/27426

Please sign and if you can email your MP. Extremely grateful.

MaxwellBygraves

Some more worrying developments...

Senior academic claims that the public will end up having to pay for treatment that is currently free on the NHS - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... -bill.html

Truly shocking list of politicians who are linked with private health care firms (of all parties) - http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.co ... on-of.html

Details of Cameron's Stalin-esque visit to the RVI in Newcastle...press silenced, staff not informed of visit, one member of staff facing disciplinary for speaking out at Cameron - http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2012/02 ... o-nhs.html

MaxwellBygraves

Cameron refuses to invite critics, or even disclose who he has invited, to important NHS summit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17083357

Mr_Cellophane

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Truly shocking list of politicians who are linked with private health care firms (of all parties) - http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.co ... on-of.html

Some of those links are a bit "loose".

The NHS needs to save money, but those saving can easily be found in areas outside of patient care. I am working for the NHS on a short contract and the waste is appalling. Thousands of pounds of IT equipment lies unused or is given away each year

bearfraser

And while we are at it we have got to stop all these health tourists coming into the country and sponging off us. Happens all the time up here with relatives of students Etc. :evil: :evil:

MaxwellBygraves

Back in 2004, Oliver Letwin let slip that under a Conservative govt. within 5 years the NHS would not exist.

See here - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 68295.html

In the Lancet, competition and 'choice' will not save lives - http://www.allysonpollock.co.uk/adminis ... Cooper.pdf

In the well known Communist propoganda rag, the Telegraph, more Cameron/bill bashing - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/90889 ... e-NHS.html

MaxwellBygraves

Watch a video of Lansley being heckled, in particular by a lady determined not to let him pass - what a hero.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17093082

What a smug coward Lansley really is. Seems determined to make himself the Dr. Beeching of healthcare!

MaxwellBygraves

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Back in 2004, Oliver Letwin let slip that under a Conservative govt. within 5 years the NHS would not exist.

See here - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 68295.html

No surprise really

bianchimoon

I can see things kicking off big style, after today's meeting meeting and not inviting BMA and RCGP's. NHS too big and important to be Fked around with by fools and tools!