The truth about getting Fat.

orienteerstu55
orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
edited June 2012 in Health, fitness & training
Hi

my name is stuart, I am a student studying sport science who is in his final year and hoping to graduate with a first class degree, so i have a greater understanding about nutrition than most and understand what constitutes good or bad research. ( I digress)

ok so FAT is not the devil !! if we should avoid any food it should be carbs. Fat is an essential nutrient as every cell is comprised of some fat hence why we are water proof. Fat contains ' good cholesterol' as well as fat soul able vitamins A,D,E and K.

So how do we get fat? short answer is carbs. carbs (particularly less complex carbs i.e. sugars) when consumed elevate the blood sugar, the body releases insulin to burn it faster, to do this it pushes everything else into cells where it is stored as fat.

so you could eat a diet of egg bacon sausage and veg and be a lot heathier than some one who ate, bread, pasta and fruit by the bucket load.

on a side note don't drink fruit juice if you want to loose weight as its basically just sugar all the fibre has been taken out and ur left with sugar and a few vitamins.

Low fat high carb diets are more likely to make you put on weight, cause heart diseases ect..

Dont belive me ??

Search any journal in the past 10 years and i doubt you will find anything that purports high fat and low carb diets are bad.


Any questions fire away, sorry its so all over the place i got bored of typing perhaps lair when i can bring myself to il write this and more up properly but nutrition is so vast and so much of it is still being taught wrong.
«13

Comments

  • ollie51
    ollie51 Posts: 517
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    So how do we get fat? short answer is carbs. carbs (particularly less complex carbs i.e. sugars) when consumed elevate the blood sugar, the body releases insulin to burn it faster, to do this it pushes everything else into cells where it is stored as fat.

    That's a very fallible thesis, In fact, what you actually eat is to certain extent irrelevant, if you, for example; ate 2500 kcal of bacon and another person are 2000 kcal worth of bread, and both use 2000 kcal, only the former person puts on weight (assuming ceteris paribus) regardless of what has been eaten, and the likelihood is that the former will have more adverse effects on your heart, cholesterol etc. They key variable being the calorific value, not what's eaten, is that not the case?
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    Yeh i didn't feel the need to explain that one sorry, i assumed everyone would know that. I'm merely suggesting that if consume a low carb high fat diet then you won't pile on the weight as once molecules are stored in cells it takes a while to get them out and before that happens you have eaten your next meal and so on..
  • DCR00
    DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    you dont make much of a differentiation between simple and complex carbs when talking about their effect on insulin, and you seem to be suggesting that all carbs are bad, which just isn't true

    also you fail to comment on the use of simple carbs during and following exercise, which given you are posting on a forum concerned with exercise, is a tad short sighted
    Tranny
    Tracey
    Bouncy
    Carbon
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    edited January 2012
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    Hi

    my name is stuart, I am a student studying sport science who is in his final year and hoping to graduate with a first class degree, so i have a greater understanding about nutrition than most and understand what constitutes good or bad research. ( I digress)
    Very forward of you :)
    ok so FAT is not the devil !! if we should avoid any food it should be carbs.
    Which carbs?
    Fat is an essential nutrient as every cell is comprised of some fat hence why we are water proof. Fat contains ' good cholesterol' as well as fat soul able vitamins A,D,E and K.
    So are carbs - carbs are the fuel of life. Especially on a forum full of cyclists. It might be ok for a sky remote mashing fattie.
    So how do we get fat? short answer is carbs. carbs (particularly less complex carbs i.e. sugars) when consumed elevate the blood sugar, the body releases insulin to burn it faster, to do this it pushes everything else into cells where it is stored as fat.
    We get fat by eating too much. Carbs on their own don't make you fat, fat on it's own doesn't make you fat. Stuffing your face and not working the excess off does. You are correct as to the insulin fat storage process though :P

    Any sportman/woman (particularly on a cycling form) should know the benefits of carbs. The simple fact is - low GI foods prevent raised insulin levels. When you die at your desk and crave the 3pm sweet coffee,chances are it will just end up on your body as fat. What you eat can prevent this.
    so you could eat a diet of egg bacon sausage and veg and be a lot heathier than some one who ate, bread, pasta and fruit by the bucket load.
    Utter balls
    on a side note don't drink fruit juice if you want to loose weight as its basically just sugar all the fibre has been taken out and ur left with sugar and a few vitamins.
    Squeeze it fresh not from a sugar laden concentrate.
    Low fat high carb diets are more likely to make you put on weight, cause heart diseases ect..
    Eating fried eggs,bacon and sausages for breakfast is more likely to cause heart disease,heart attacks,clogges arteries and a whole host of ailments.
    Dont belive me ??
    Absolutely not
    so much of it is still being taught wrong
    *rolleyes*

    ps: Name 1 high fat low carb professional athlete.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    il write this and more up properly

    You need to, some of your English is terrible! It hinders what you are trying to say. I'll be brutally honest, it looks as though was written by a primary school student, not a person in their last year of a degree!

    Anyhow, I think the above poster sums it up very well.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    T.M.H.N.E.T

    you seem very opinionated do you have any valid literature to back up your points?

    freshly squeed juice is no better, its still just pure fructose that will elevate insulin levels vastly, even if their are bits of pulp you have removed the majority of the fibre.

    Body can only store 2000kcals of glycogen thats approx 2 hours moderate exercise, fat stores = > 100,000 kcal's thats enough for 22 marathons back to back (jeukendrop et al 1998)

    exercising at less 25 % vo2 max = approx 75 % energy from fat, 65 % vo2 max = approx 50% from fat and 85 % vo2 max = 40% from fat after an an hour (coyle et al 1996). achlean (2002) states that fat is oxidised greatest at 65% vo2 max.

    evidence does not support high fat diets support sport performance against high carbs. due to a reduced capacity to oxidise glucose thus exercising at high intensities is difficult. however, it may be advantageous where enormous energy expenditure occurs at lower intensities i.e enduro races. (little evidence to support this one but its food for thought). A low fat diet may promote greater glycogen usage and and thus lower endurance performance.

    And a fry up is really healthy contains best sources of protein from eggs, bacon rind for quality fat cook it in nut oil or animal fat (incedently protein becomes more bioavailable when you cook an egg so don't eat em raw thats disgusting trust me i tried it). a friend of mine is a nutritionist and a dam good one, he holds regular conferences to educate doctors and athletes about fats wrongful portrayal. as well as other nutrition advice and supplementing ect.

    i don't want to offend anyone, if you don't like what I'm saying ( with regards to loosing weight not sports performance) shut up and eat your carbs. don't have a go at me.
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    yeh sorry about the lack grammar and spelling errors, english never was my strong point (dyslexic and useless at it) but sport science is my strong point.
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    T.M.H.N.E.T

    you seem very opinionated do you have any valid literature to back up your points?
    Do you
    freshly squeed juice is no better, its still just pure fructose that will elevate insulin levels vastly, even if their are bits of pulp you have removed the majority of the fibre.
    No fruit at all then since it is indeed the devil
    Body can only store 2000kcals of glycogen thats approx 2 hours moderate exercise, fat stores = > 100,000 kcal's thats enough for 22 marathons back to back (jeukendrop et al 1998)
    Depending on the size of your fat store.
    exercising at less 25 % vo2 max = approx 75 % energy from fat, 65 % vo2 max = approx 50% from fat and 85 % vo2 max = 40% from fat after an an hour (coyle et al 1996). achlean (2002) states that fat is oxidised greatest at 65% vo2 max.
    Where did you copy-paste this from?
    evidence does not support high fat diets
    You're right. It doesn't
    due to a reduced capacity to oxidise glucose thus exercising at high intensities is difficult. however, it may be advantageous where enormous energy expenditure occurs at lower intensities i.e enduro races. (little evidence to support this one but its food for thought). A low fat diet may promote greater glycogen usage and and thus lower endurance performance.
    Uh glycogen is meant to be used. If you're worth your degree then you'll be aware that carbs and glycogen are easier for the body to process to energy than fat,so naturally it will process these first.
    And a fry up is really healthy contains best sources of protein from eggs, bacon rind for quality fat cook it in nut oil or animal fatp
    Wow that's healthy.
    (incedently protein becomes more bioavailable when you cook an egg so don't eat em raw thats disgusting trust me i tried it).
    No.
    a friend of mine is a nutritionist and a dam good one, he holds regular conferences to educate doctors and athletes about fats wrongful portrayal. as well as other nutrition advice and supplementing ect.
    Maybe you should attend one of these.

    i don't want to offend anyone, if you don't like what I'm saying ( with regards to loosing weight not sports performance) shut up and eat your carbs. don't have a go at me.
    [/quote][/quote]
    What you're saying is in fact,utter balls. You clearly don't have even the most minute of clues as to what you are talking about. Regurgitating terrible advice and information won't get you your degree.

    Honestly,Im embarrassed for you.
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    I really hope you aren't studying at the same place I got my Nutrition and Sports Science degree... if so, I hang my head in shame :(
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    ok well until i have the time to show you the relevant knowledge, spelt correctly and structured in a way you can't dispute the reams of supporting evidence il leave this be, i will be back tho, its dissertation time atm tho and I'm too stressed for this.

    P.S I'm on for a first with an A in nutrition
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    ok well until i have the time to show you the relevant knowledge, spelt correctly and structured in a way you can't dispute the reams of supporting evidence il leave this be, i will be back tho, its dissertation time atm tho and I'm too stressed for this.

    P.S I'm on for a first with an A in nutrition
    Aww don't run away. I was just beginning to enjoy this.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    And a fry up is really healthy contains best sources of protein from eggs, bacon rind for quality fat cook it in nut oil or animal fat

    This is a pretty dangerous statement. It what context is this healthy? As part of a balanced diet, or do you advocate this on a regular basis? What about all the salt in there? What about the types of fats in this meal, and your views on impact on cholesterol and CHD?
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    il be back, I'm not concerned just need a day to find buckets of relevant journal papers to sock the facts to ya! none of those news paper, taught in school rubbish that people think are facts but is really based on terrible observational studies as opposed to valid research from clinical studies.

    i will leave you with this, eskimos (or whatever the politicly correct term is now) used to eat a very high fat diet eating whale bluba and they hadn't heard of a heart attack until they discovered white flour and carbs.

    1g of fat = 9kcal and 1 g carb = 4 kcal's both break down to produce glucose
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    supersonic wrote:
    And a fry up is really healthy contains best sources of protein from eggs, bacon rind for quality fat cook it in nut oil or animal fat

    This is a pretty dangerous statement. It what context is this healthy? As part of a balanced diet, or do you advocate this on a regular basis? What about all the salt in there? What about the types of fats in this meal, and your views on impact on cholesterol and CHD?

    I look forward to the NHS advert advocating the greasy fry up instead of a pasta dish.

    1 large fried egg has around 70% of your daily advised cholesterol intake...
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    il be back, I'm not concerned just need a day to find buckets of relevant journal papers to sock the facts to ya! none of those news paper, taught in school rubbish that people think are facts but is really based on terrible observational studies as opposed to valid research from clinical studies.

    i will leave you with this, eskimos (or whatever the politicly correct term is now) used to eat a very high fat diet eating whale bluba and they hadn't heard of a heart attack until they discovered white flour and carbs.

    1g of fat = 9kcal and 1 g carb = 4 kcal's both break down to produce glucose


    Go research how many calories you burn in negative degree weather conditions and then compare it to how many calories you burn sat in front of the tv.

    Seriously, you need the think of the application as well as the science.
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The 'Eskimo Factor' - high levels of omega-3-fatty acids from their diet. So need to look at other factors, is nowhere near as simple as 'they eat just fats and are ok'. Also many of them smoke now.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    Firstly NHS are WRONG based on seriusly floored literature that was manipulated to produce seriously wrong results. it got backed by the american heart association as the guy was on the panel who produced it and he was i think a doctor to the president of america, he pushed it to go public and everywhere followed. no research got funded that was too the contrary probably due to americas massive grain industry.

    yeh their are two types of cholesterol LDL and HDL, one is good for ya and repairs the damage done by the other ( I'm very vague on this area but il get back to you on it in detail).

    If you are very interested i found a great you tube video that sums up the majority of what i want to say ( i know its not a valid source of info and its presented by a comedian but its based on sound research and will enlighten you if you stick with it).

    icedently whilst i was trying to find the video i typed in eat fat and the response was loads of videos with people talking about eating fat to loose weight, it would seem the message is getting out their.

    video is called Big Fat Fiasco and there are 5 parts i beg of you to watch it last about an hour total so informative. please let me know what you think about it and if you have changed your mind at all. i won't mock you as your not the only ones.
  • orienteerstu55
    orienteerstu55 Posts: 102
    ok i can't keep pace and i need to do uni work just watch the vid please and il constrict a more meaning full 'argument' for later when i can be bothered or i might just save my breath to blow my porridge with f you watch the video and it has no impact at all.

    Thanks for your time
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Out of interest, which uni are you at?
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    orienteerstu55 wrote:
    Firstly NHS are WRONG based on seriusly floored literature that was manipulated to produce seriously wrong results. it got backed by the american heart association as the guy was on the panel who produced it and he was i think a doctor to the president of america, he pushed it to go public and everywhere followed. no research got funded that was too the contrary probably due to americas massive grain industry.
    An unqualified student claiming the NHS are wrong. You sir are a genius and a comedian.
    yeh their are two types of cholesterol LDL and HDL, one is good for ya and repairs the damage done by the other ( I'm very vague on this area but il get back to you on it in detail).
    Please do.
    If you are very interested i found a great you tube video that sums up the majority of what i want to say ( i know its not a valid source of info and its presented by a comedian but its based on sound research and will enlighten you if you stick with it).
    I am enlightened already,although that may be the comedy value of this thread making me feel happier. Could also be the lovely carbs I consume.
    icedently whilst i was trying to find the video i typed in eat fat and the response was loads of videos with people talking about eating fat to loose weight, it would seem the message is getting out their.
    How many of those people can exercise for more than 30 mins? How many of them are athletic in any way? How many of them are happy?
    video is called Big Fat Fiasco and there are 5 parts i beg of you to watch it last about an hour total so informative. please let me know what you think about it and if you have changed your mind at all. i won't mock you as your not the only ones.
    Is this video the source of your information? I like how there is a video demo of a pipe getting clogged with fat in the first 2minutes. I change my mind and recommend high fat diets now,due to this alone.

    Thank you. You are a font of wisdom worthy of knighthood.
    ok i can't keep pace and i need to do uni work just watch the vid please and il constrict a more meaning full 'argument' for later when i can be bothered or i might just save my breath to blow my porridge with f you watch the video and it has no impact at all.

    Thanks for your time
    You can't keep pace? Is this due to lack of carbs,lack of knowledge or both?
  • kathg
    kathg Posts: 142
    The OP is talking absolute rubbish re. nutrition for MTB ers anyway. I know this from personal experience having tried the much vaunted Atkins diet (high protein and fat, low to nil carb) quite a few years ago. Yes, weight loss was pretty impressive but it was utterly impossible to ride whilst doing this diet. I absolutely couldn't pedal uphill, felt ill, shaky, faint and ultimately REALLY unhealthy. Switched to a sensible low GI type eating regime and all was well. Really not impressed with a Sports Scientist spouting this stuff on a forum like this.
  • ollie51
    ollie51 Posts: 517
    supersonic wrote:
    Out of interest, which uni are you at?

    I too would like to know the answer to this question, I'll be doing UCAS forms before long...
  • DCR00
    DCR00 Posts: 2,160
    is it a BA in Sports Science ? i.e. no science ?
    Tranny
    Tracey
    Bouncy
    Carbon
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    DCR00 wrote:
    is it a BA in Sports Science ? i.e. no science ?

    Still in shock from the OP's original post. I do hope he wasn't taught this info at university...it's shocking!

    And those videos he mentioned, they are just those american scam videos targeted at extracting $20 out of overweight people.

    Go on, meet (Vid) the experts....
    http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/ ... e-experts/
    Not the most athletic bunch of people you'll ever meet.

    And this says it all ...

    =====================
    Trend Micro OfficeScan Event - URL Blocked

    The URL that you are attempting to access is a potential security risk. Trend Micro OfficeScan has blocked this URL in keeping with network security policy.
    URL: http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/ ... co-speech/
    Risk Level: Dangerous
    Details: Verified fraud page or threat source
    =====================

    The website is blocked by my virus scanner LOL
    Simon
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    I think what he's try to say is technically correct, he just cant put it into words properly. I've read similar theories loads of times before. Check out "the four hour body" "marks daily apple" and "paleo diet"

    Although obviously if you are a serious cyclist cycling hundreds of miles per week, it doesnt really matter, you need to eat plenty of carbs.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,673
    supersonic wrote:
    Out of interest, which uni are you at?
    I know. ;)
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    styxd wrote:
    I think what he's try to say is technically correct, he just cant put it into words properly. I've read similar theories loads of times before. Check out "the four hour body" "marks daily apple" and "paleo diet"

    Although obviously if you are a serious cyclist cycling hundreds of miles per week, it doesnt really matter, you need to eat plenty of carbs.
    The paleo diet is nothing like high fat low carb. Caught - Hunted - foraged

    Mark Sissons: Don't get me started. But I will ask http://primalblueprint.com/categories/S ... pplements/ Why? Why is his store full of expensive supplements? I await response.

    http://youtu.be/Nq7qIbZ1TkQ
    http://youtu.be/xq2iwNsN7rA
    http://youtu.be/ZYD90RXF3kw
    http://youtu.be/GcLnG6eWHE4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... BbA#t=488s
    Others
    http://youtu.be/o3Z3swvXmEc



    The OP made it very clear that

    Fruit is the devil
    Fried breakfasts are good
    Doesn't understand something simple like cooking an egg
    That he hasn't got a clue
    The education system fails
    He has absolutely no evidence to support his claims that on a cycling forum,where there are even world champions posting regularly. That high fat low carb diets are indeed beneficial to the target audience.

    The OP has also failed to answer a simple question which was
    name 1 high fat low carb professional athlete

    Don't defend his stupidity,it may well be contagious.
  • Fatamorgana
    Fatamorgana Posts: 257
    What amazes me is that if you know you have a problem, and in this case we're told it's dyslexia, then surely to goodness you'd have switched on very early on in your life that the ONLY way forward is to type everything into some other software, as I am doing, be it Word or even Outlook. Copy / paste is the way forward for you sun-shine!

    It's very difficult to take you at all seriously on any front, especially in light of the fact that you're trying to educate us as a supposed degree student when you type like my 12 year old.

    I'm sorry - but I do not believe you, the work and the way you express your information is so poorly managed and explained with no references with so many gaping holes it's little wonder the replies shoot you down in flames. I just love the idea of watching some Youtube videos to gain my degree.

    One thing you've now discovered that not everyone here is still in year 6 and that many have a very through grounding and working knowledge of your chosen subject.

    What a joker! No way is he even A level material. Shame as it completely invalidates the entire post and 100% of his comments.

    Can imagine him in court as a professional witness? I'd love to see the cross examination!
  • t.m.h.n.e.t
    t.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Fatamorgana wrote:
    Can imagine him in court as a professional witness? I'd love to see the cross examination!
    Would love to be in the gallery for that.
  • Noel PT
    Noel PT Posts: 627
    Holy crap, tested to destruction! :lol:

    This is a prime example of book smart....or not as the case may be.
    www.ttspersonaltraining.co.uk

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