Party Planning for Thatcher's death...

neeb

It just occurred to me, if the state funeral does go ahead and I was Alex Salmond, I might be thinking that could be a good day on which to hold a referendum on Scottish independence...

Frank the tank

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Of course Thatcher never sold off anything did she?......... Hang on how about British Gas, Airways, Electric, Telecom, North Sea Oil and most of the social housing stock.

I notice you don't mention BP which was the first sell off under Tony Benn. The only difference for that was that only his rich friends in the city could buy it and not the common man.

Rick Chasey wrote:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/18914

Thanks for that - I have signed.

For me, the basics i.e. utility's (gas, water,electric) should be publicly owned and supplied at the cheapest rate possible and not include excessive profits for shareholders. As a public service we'd all be share holders.

berliner

Lord! celebrating death... all a bit sick...

Hopefully nobody will depart in a time like the fabulous "Winter of Discontent". I remember it well. Life was so good.

on the road

Is she dead yet?

Pross

I'm always amazed how she was voted into power 3 times (and her successor as party leader got a go as well) when so many people claim hatred. All it would have taken if she was so bad and destroying the country was for people to not vote for her. I was 7 when she came to power but I'm pretty sure the country was in terrible shape in the run up to the '79 election?

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

I'm always amazed how she was voted into power 3 times (and her successor as party leader got a go as well) when so many people claim hatred. All it would have taken if she was so bad and destroying the country was for people to not vote for her. I was 7 when she came to power but I'm pretty sure the country was in terrible shape in the run up to the '79 election?

Economic growth in the '60s and '70s (even with high inflation) was stronger than it has been since Thatcher.

FYI....

mr_goo

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

LeicesterLad

Pross wrote:

I'm always amazed how she was voted into power 3 times (and her successor as party leader got a go as well) when so many people claim hatred. All it would have taken if she was so bad and destroying the country was for people to not vote for her. I was 7 when she came to power but I'm pretty sure the country was in terrible shape in the run up to the '79 election?

This.

GiantMike

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

I agree (though I'd say it was just very distasteful). I've stayed out of the debate until now because people are so divided by what they think of her that it turns into a half-@rsed political debate. We should never celebrate the death of another.

If you voted for her and liked her, well done.
If you voted for her and didn't like her, think on.
If you didn't vote for her and didn't like her, blame the other voters who democratically elected her several times.

verylonglegs

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

The funny thing is that such senitments are expressed by those who claim to represent the more caring, sharing and compassionate side of the political spectrum. Work that one out. Tribal politics is a curse this country can not escape.

MaxwellBygraves

verylonglegs wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

The funny thing is that such senitments are expressed by those who claim to represent the more caring, sharing and compassionate side of the political spectrum. Work that one out. Tribal politics is a curse this country can not escape.

I have already tried to articulate this in my response.

Such knee jerk, anger-filled and uncompassionate reactions should belong to the right of the spectrum; they have no place on the true left. We should not revel in the suffering of another human, even if it is Thatcher. Bottom line.

rick_chasey

Ah, it's a little tongue in cheek isn't it?

I won't be partying, though I did find that e-petition rather amusing....

MattC59

I bet that the troll is over the moon that this has got to four pages !
:roll:

neeb

Pross wrote:

I'm always amazed how she was voted into power 3 times (and her successor as party leader got a go as well) when so many people claim hatred. All it would have taken if she was so bad and destroying the country was for people to not vote for her. I was 7 when she came to power but I'm pretty sure the country was in terrible shape in the run up to the '79 election?

She was voted into power 3 times under the first-past-the-post electoral system, and with the support of Murdoch's media empire which has basically been the deciding factor in most UK general elections in the last 30 years or so due to its ability to swing the the unpoliticised majority. If you look at the actual percentage of the vote in each of these elections, in each case it was less than 50%. In other words, most people who voted didn't vote for her. And that's just the people who actually voted (not that I've much sympathy for the ones that didn't).

Another factor is that the vote for the conservatives was very regionally biased, with a heavy concentration in the S.E. of England. Hardly anyone in Scotland or in certain parts of the north of England voted for her.

Pross

neeb wrote:

Pross wrote:

I'm always amazed how she was voted into power 3 times (and her successor as party leader got a go as well) when so many people claim hatred. All it would have taken if she was so bad and destroying the country was for people to not vote for her. I was 7 when she came to power but I'm pretty sure the country was in terrible shape in the run up to the '79 election?

She was voted into power 3 times under the first-past-the-post electoral system, and with the support of Murdoch's media empire which has basically been the deciding factor in most UK general elections in the last 30 years or so due to its ability to swing the the unpoliticised majority. If you look at the actual percentage of the vote in each of these elections, in each case it was less than 50%. In other words, most people who voted didn't vote for her. And that's just the people who actually voted (not that I've much sympathy for the ones that didn't).

Another factor is that the vote for the conservatives was very regionally biased, with a heavy concentration in the S.E. of England. Hardly anyone in Scotland or in certain parts of the north of England voted for her.

All fair enough comment for the first time but surely if she was that bad in her first term then there would have been a concerted drive to oust her next time around by tactical voting? Even in first past the post it relied on her party getting the significant share of the vote in the majority of constituencies and the Tory vote against any given opposition during her years of leadership was between 7% and 15% higher (15% and 12% in her 2nd and 3rd wins). No political party has won 50% or more of the vote since 1945.

random man

Pross wrote:

All fair enough comment for the first time but surely if she was that bad in her first term then there would have been a concerted drive to oust her next time around by tactical voting? Even in first past the post it relied on her party getting the significant share of the vote in the majority of constituencies and the Tory vote against any given opposition during her years of leadership was between 7% and 15% higher (15% and 12% in her 2nd and 3rd wins). No political party has won 50% or more of the vote since 1945.

Labour's problem was that they had Michael Foot as leader in '83

neeb

Pross wrote:

All fair enough comment for the first time but surely if she was that bad in her first term then there would have been a concerted drive to oust her next time around by tactical voting? Even in first past the post it relied on her party getting the significant share of the vote in the majority of constituencies and the Tory vote against any given opposition during her years of leadership was between 7% and 15% higher (15% and 12% in her 2nd and 3rd wins). No political party has won 50% or more of the vote since 1945.

But if you are asking why so many people had (and still have) such strong negative feelings towards her despite the election results, it's simply because there was always a large percentage of the UK population who never voted for her and really detested her policies and attitude. She divided the country, and that division is still there in the memories of those who lived through that period.

I think the regional division is important here. There are large areas of the UK that never voted for Thatcher (generally these were the areas that suffered most under her policies). She divided the country far more than subsequent governments have.

on the road

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

I lived through the Thatcher years and like a lot of other people suffered at the hands of Thatchers policies. Thatcher was the opposite to Robin Hood, rob from the poor to give to the rich.

I was too young to vote in 1979 when she came into power but if I could have voted I would have voted Labour, not that it would have made any difference.

So call me a sick b*stard or whatever you like, I don't care what you think, I'll be jumping for joy when Thatcher dies and it can't come soon enough. :evil:

MaxwellBygraves

on the road wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

I lived through the Thatcher years and like a lot of other people suffered at the hands of Thatchers policies. Thatcher was the opposite to Robin Hood, rob from the poor to give to the rich.

I was too young to vote in 1979 when she came into power but if I could have voted I would have voted Labour, not that it would have made any difference.

So call me a sick b*stard or whatever you like, I don't care what you think, I'll be jumping for joy when Thatcher dies and it can't come soon enough. :evil:

You are right in your description of Thatcher. Her policies encouraged fear, hatred, ignorance, control, division and anger. But I would suggest more anger and hatred in response to her death is perversely almost what she would want - be the better person and respond with compassion - something Thatcher never could understand

Smokin Joe

Pross wrote:

and with the support of Murdoch's media empire which has basically been the deciding factor in most UK general elections in the last 30 years or so due to its ability to swing the the unpoliticised majority.

[/quote]
Wrong.

Murdoch's media empire does not lead public opinion, it is terrified of being out of step with it and follows slavishly in it's wake, hence the obsession with paedos which it knows will strike a cord with it's readers. That's why it backed Blair in '97 and Cameron at the last election, it knew the tide was turning and it took the line it thought it's readers wanted it to. The influence of the Sun (readership of around three million, a great many who probably don't ever vote) on election outcomes is a myth put about by the paper itself.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

All fair enough comment for the first time but surely if she was that bad in her first term then there would have been a concerted drive to oust her next time around by tactical voting? Even in first past the post it relied on her party getting the significant share of the vote in the majority of constituencies and the Tory vote against any given opposition during her years of leadership was between 7% and 15% higher (15% and 12% in her 2nd and 3rd wins). No political party has won 50% or more of the vote since 1945.

People don't necessarily vote in their own best interest.

They just think they do...

twistedmetal

Well I'll be dancing for joy when Blair and Brown die. I still think Thatcher had more integrity than they did in office. Don't remember her sending armed forces in to a war that was illegal and most of the population were against but I was a kid so perhaps I missed something.

I grew up in the north and lived in the constituency with the highest Tory majority under Thatcher's premiership. There were always those sorts of anomalies. Also IIRC there were more Tory MPs from Scotland under Thatcher than any other Tory leader since. I think it could have been the same for Wales too.

Another thing, irrespective of the electoral method, which was the same for Wilson and Callaghan and Blair and Brown so is kind of irrelevant, she did get elected a few times. Less than 50% of the electorate voted for her but they did have higher turnouts back then than now and Blair too had less than 50% vote for him too. So what you are saying is no party has had a mandate since 1945 by saying Thatcher hadn't a mandate because she had less than half the electorate vote for her I guess. Under the same rules her party got the majority vote in more constituencies than the other parties so she had her mandate and IIRC was quite big too so she could force through a lot of her policies without deals and panicking from her whips like under Brown and even Blair in the end!! I would still prefer her to Brown and Blair and little Ed Milliband and Cameron too!!

on the road

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

on the road wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Celebrating Thatchers Death... Seems that Bike Radar is populated by some very mentally sick people.

I lived through the Thatcher years and like a lot of other people suffered at the hands of Thatchers policies. Thatcher was the opposite to Robin Hood, rob from the poor to give to the rich.

I was too young to vote in 1979 when she came into power but if I could have voted I would have voted Labour, not that it would have made any difference.

So call me a sick b*stard or whatever you like, I don't care what you think, I'll be jumping for joy when Thatcher dies and it can't come soon enough. :evil:

You are right in your description of Thatcher. Her policies encouraged fear, hatred, ignorance, control, division and anger. But I would suggest more anger and hatred in response to her death is perversely almost what she would want - be the better person and respond with compassion - something Thatcher never could understand

Nah, she wanted to be worshipped, she saw herself as a god.

Pross

Smokin Joe wrote:

Pross wrote:

and with the support of Murdoch's media empire which has basically been the deciding factor in most UK general elections in the last 30 years or so due to its ability to swing the the unpoliticised majority.

No I didn't

Pross

It even took those north of the border a few terms to realise the Thatcherite evils

http://www.alba.org.uk/maps/generalmaps.html

GiantMike

Pross wrote:

It even took those north of the border a few terms to realise the Thatcherite evils

http://www.alba.org.uk/maps/generalmaps.html

More importantly, those people who are moaning about Thatcher now probably don't realise how popular she and the Tories were for so long. Especially after the Falklands in '82.

berliner

Was anyone else on this forum alive and possibly working in the late 70s?

Massive Inflation - IMF Loans - Unemployment 3m+ - Burying the Dead Not - Waste Collectors - Lorry drivers - British Crappy "take an engine home with you after work" Leyland - Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike and a useless England football team -some things never change

Pross

I alluded to it earlier but was told that economic growth was better then than now.

rick_chasey

Quite. I am half way through a book by Ha-Joon Chan about Capitalism.

Growth in the 60s and 70s, before inflation control was an issue, was higher than it has been since '80s. Job security was also higher then too.

He is of the opinion that, in part, the emphasis on inflation control actually dampens growth and makes them more unstable > but works to the advantage of investors who don't see their large chunks of cash errode away.

bianchimoon

berliner wrote:

Was anyone else on this forum alive and possibly working in the late 70s?

Massive Inflation - IMF Loans - Unemployment 3m+ - Burying the Dead Not - Waste Collectors - Lorry drivers - British Crappy "take an engine home with you after work" Leyland - Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike Strike and a useless England football team -some things never change

+1 had this argument with a mate the other week, he's a very well off guy age 45, hates Thatcher with a passion, but works out he was only 15 when Thatcher came to power, i mentioned some of the above to him and he didnt have a clue about them, seems it's the fashion to hate thatcher even amongst well off peeps these days who didnt suffer the 'Union' years. I told him to ask his dad for a more balanced view