Leg Press anyone?

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Comments

  • Mr Dog
    Mr Dog Posts: 643
    It must help in sprinting past the dingos from down under.. sorry Alex :wink:
    Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?
  • brettjmcc
    brettjmcc Posts: 1,361
    tim wand wrote:
    Awesome from Sir Chris. Wonder what Cav could push, not half of that I d Imagine.

    Well in Watt terms, I think that Cav said in his Sky documentary he pushed 1600/1700W with training. A month or so back I was at an event where people were using a Watt bike to advertise something. The banner behind had a scale of people on bikes power, at the bottom it said that Sir Chris pushes 2200W :shock:
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  • tim_wand
    tim_wand Posts: 2,552
    Didnt a guy nearly "cark it" at a sky promo event trying to keep up with Twiggo and Russ Downing on a Watt Bike?
  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    brettjmcc wrote:
    tim wand wrote:
    Awesome from Sir Chris. Wonder what Cav could push, not half of that I d Imagine.

    Well in Watt terms, I think that Cav said in his Sky documentary he pushed 1600/1700W with training. A month or so back I was at an event where people were using a Watt bike to advertise something. The banner behind had a scale of people on bikes power, at the bottom it said that Sir Chris pushes 2200W :shock:

    Some of those top sprinters have hit 2500 but most of them know that it is their average power for 15-30 seconds that wins them bike races. The peak torques involved in heavy squatting far exceed the peak torques from studies on world class French and British sprinters which illustrate that training for maximum strength or power in the gym outside of training movement patterns unrelated to cycling are building a strength capacity that has nothing to do with their performance demands.

    Most sprinters like lifting weights and think they are strong but compare them to the strength of powerlifters or the power of Olympic Weightlifters they are pretty average. Chris Hoy at 90kg has a peak squat of 500lbs which is 90lb short of the woman's world record for squat in the 90kg class. A good 400lb shy of the men's world record.
  • Eddy S
    Eddy S Posts: 1,013
    CoachFergie wrote:
    Most sprinters like lifting weights and think they are strong but compare them to the strength of powerlifters or the power of Olympic Weightlifters they are pretty average. Chris Hoy at 90kg has a peak squat of 500lbs which is 90lb short of the woman's world record for squat in the 90kg class. A good 400lb shy of the men's world record.
    And the point is?

    It's a pretty pointless comparison or are you just having a bit of a stir? It's a bit like asking if a world record holding power lifter can run a 9.9 flying 200.

    (It is very quiet on FGF these days... ;) )
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    Point is most sprinters have more strength than the greatest resistance they will ever encounter on the bike. They would be wiser spending their time training their anaerobic capacity.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Ok, best tell British cycling then.
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  • Polonium.
    Polonium. Posts: 24
    CoachFergie wrote:
    Most sprinters like lifting weights and think they are strong but compare them to the strength of powerlifters or the power of Olympic Weightlifters they are pretty average. Chris Hoy at 90kg has a peak squat of 500lbs which is 90lb short of the woman's world record for squat in the 90kg class. A good 400lb shy of the men's world record.
    As a keen Olympic Weightlifter I can confirm, yes they are about average weights he is pushing. But he needs to push pretty hard on those track bikes and it seems to be working well for him....
  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    Polonium. wrote:
    As a keen Olympic Weightlifter I can confirm, yes they are about average weights he is pushing. But he needs to push pretty hard on those track bikes and it seems to be working well for him....

    And you think the forces involved in a sport that takes between 9.5sec to 43sec to complete will come close to the forces involved in a sport that takes less than a second. Weight training has more to do with the riders psyche than a real assessment of the demands of each sprint event. I have a road rider I coach who wont put down the barbell till I prise it from his cold dead hands as he feels it would rob him of power in his sprint. Even despite the fact his over-developed upper body limits him on the hills and for the last three years at road nationals he hasn't been in the lead group to unleash his max strength at the finish.
  • Pseudonym
    Pseudonym Posts: 1,032
    CoachFergie wrote:
    I have a road rider I coach who wont put down the barbell till I prise it from his cold dead hands as he feels it would rob him of power in his sprint. Even despite the fact his over-developed upper body limits him on the hills and for the last three years at road nationals he hasn't been in the lead group to unleash his max strength at the finish.

    an overweight rider who can't climb and keeps missing the selection - how do you think his training plan is going..?
  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    I tell them what they need to do. It's up to them to take it on board. It's not like I haven't got a stack of other riders who follow my advice and do win NZ and Oceania titles or medal at World Championships. From a performance perspective because he races and trains with a power meter he is making gains in power across the board. I have said the weights is limiting the time he could be spending improving his aerobic power and capacity which is most relevant to his goals.
  • Neil Buckley
    Neil Buckley Posts: 334
    CoachFergie wrote:
    Polonium. wrote:
    As a keen Olympic Weightlifter I can confirm, yes they are about average weights he is pushing. But he needs to push pretty hard on those track bikes and it seems to be working well for him....

    And you think the forces involved in a sport that takes between 9.5sec to 43sec to complete will come close to the forces involved in a sport that takes less than a second. Weight training has more to do with the riders psyche than a real assessment of the demands of each sprint event. I have a road rider I coach who wont put down the barbell till I prise it from his cold dead hands as he feels it would rob him of power in his sprint. Even despite the fact his over-developed upper body limits him on the hills and for the last three years at road nationals he hasn't been in the lead group to unleash his max strength at the finish.

    I dont usally get involved in slaggings in forums, and thats my true name up there and I'm working through my coaching badges and work in a learning and coaching environment (I train people joining the Infantry) that is poor/bad coaching on your part to allow him to do that. There is no percific goal setting or structure to his training and he is paying you to get him in the lead group to 'unleash his max strength'

    There is no way i'd allow that to happen 'here you go fella theres a rifle and some ammo crack on and do your own thing' i'd loose my job, if that person is not lisening you as is mentor/trainer should have the moral courage and integrity to get a grip of him and guide him the correct way. Even if it envolves being blunt. The fact that you say you have successful riders, i'm telling him to do it but f him if he isnt lisening to me also is very wrong, if somebody doesnt lisen to me then I sit them down and tell them so, you either work with me and we will together succede or we wont work together at all. Im very shocked in your post there, very shocked.
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  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    Neil Buckley wrote:
    I dont usally get involved in slaggings in forums

    And I wouldn't unless I knew the full story.

    Sounds like you have some more learning to do before you become a real coach.
  • Neil Buckley
    Neil Buckley Posts: 334
    CoachFergie wrote:
    Neil Buckley wrote:
    I dont usally get involved in slaggings in forums

    And I wouldn't unless I knew the full story.

    Sounds like you have some more learning to do before you become a real coach.

    We never stop learning and i've been doing it for a bit (nearly 8 years) but i'm keen to keep learning so please continue, anything you want to pass on im happy to take it on board from a real coach. And im not being sarcastic. But please if you have time put the full story up...
    Helmand Province is such a nice place.....
  • CoachFergie
    CoachFergie Posts: 25
    That would be straying off topic but rest assured in the four years I have been coaching this rider his power has made excellent increases and his performance in races (tactics, skills, technique, psychology) have improved greatly. His reasons for lifting have little to do with his cycling and he is fully aware of my position on the subject.

    While I have no hesitation in firing clients I am not going to do that with someone who has a positive belief even if I disagree with it. Clients I have fired this year were the ones who thought I would ride the bike for them (good luck with that) or that they could buy success with equipment (disc wheels, TT bikes etc) without doing the work.
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    I've worked in the fitness industry for a long time and I've seen many people lift more than that on a leg press, A leg press isn't a true reflection of strength.
    However I don't think I've ever seen a guy Hoy's height and weight and drug free squat as much as him.
    The leg press is the easy option and you can get good technique on it in a short time.

    I also doubt anyone I've seen leg press that amount would have being doing anywhere near the training volume and variety of Hoy.

    I've seen guys who where on roids 10 years ago leg press stupid amounts, Usually bouncing off their fat guts, Hands on their tightly wrapped knees which barely bend, Usually wearing a "Go heavy or go home" T-shirt.
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    Polonium. wrote:
    CoachFergie wrote:
    Most sprinters like lifting weights and think they are strong but compare them to the strength of powerlifters or the power of Olympic Weightlifters they are pretty average. Chris Hoy at 90kg has a peak squat of 500lbs which is 90lb short of the woman's world record for squat in the 90kg class. A good 400lb shy of the men's world record.
    As a keen Olympic Weightlifter I can confirm, yes they are about average weights he is pushing. But he needs to push pretty hard on those track bikes and it seems to be working well for him....

    I always wonder when I see things like "As a keen Olympic weight lifter".
    Does that mean you are a competing in the Olympics? A fan of the Olympics? A guy who does Olympic lifts in the gym?
    I'm not trying to put anyone down, Just curious as to what it means.
  • Murr X
    Murr X Posts: 258
    warrior4life wrote:
    I don't think I've ever seen a guy Hoy's height and weight and drug free squat as much as him.
    How much have you seen him squat and how are you sure he is drug free? I suspect that there are other track sprinters out there capable of squatting more than him but I could be wrong.

    Murr X
  • warrior4life
    warrior4life Posts: 925
    Start this video at 1min 23 and you'll be very impressed with his strength and power. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Ab-PUSiOg

    I know he's drug free because he's British, Seriously I don't know, Im just presuming.

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