More Tube Strikes

rick_chasey

I also think people get more outraged about this stuff because these pay figures are available.

If you guys saw some of the offers we get for our candidates you'd be crying yourselves to sleep for the next week.

DonDaddyD

Yes the figures being available do compound on the rage.

Isn't that the point and the reason why they're available. They're handsomely paid and compensated enough. To ask for more money yes the greed needs to be exposed. It's a public service not a pure profit making company.

keyser__soze

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness to their job, they're not paid for what they do, but for what they know.

It's comparable to commercial pilots.

Or more appropriately bus drivers. Show me a bus driver that earns anything like what the tube drivers earn? Equally unsociable hours? Yes. Likelihood of hitting/killing someone and the related stress? Much greater. Complicated job? Well, they've got a steering wheel for a start, plus they have to drive all sorts of different routes, cope with diversions etc.

bigmat

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness to their job, they're not paid for what they do, but for what they know.

It's comparable to commercial pilots.

Or more appropriately bus drivers. Show me a bus driver that earns anything like what the tube drivers earn? Equally unsociable hours? Yes. Likelihood of hitting/killing someone and the related stress? Much greater. Complicated job? Well, they've got a steering wheel for a start, plus they have to drive all sorts of different routes, cope with diversions etc.

Its the race to the bottom again. Perhaps if bus drivers weren't so underpaid they wouldn't such dangerous incompetent fupwits - even the decent ones can't be expected to be anything better than appalling drivers after they've driven a 10 hour shift or whatever they need to do to make ends meet.

beverick

At least there was an endeavour to provide a transport service to the public in London, even if there was never the will of a Union to let it happen without resorting to extortion.

Elsewhere in the UK (or the real world as the rest of us care to call it) there's no train service on boxing day at all and bus services will be, at best, sporadic.

Bob

rick_chasey

DonDaddyD wrote:

. To ask for more money yes the greed needs to be exposed. It's a public service not a pure profit making company.

So the greed's OK if they're private?

OK, gotcha.

sketchley

Edit: This strike isn't the RMT I'll save that link for another day.

spursn17

Please remember that there are many other workers on the Tube apart from the drivers, and a lot of us do not agree with this strike (brought about by ASLEF, a train drivers union).
I suppose we'll all get tarred with the same brush though, and it'll be the poor old station assistants that get it in the neck from the public as usual.

Luckily I'm locked away all day :-)

Stevo_666

Sketchley wrote:

http://www.punchinthefacebook.com/punch/bob-crow

Great find Sketchley - that's made feel better already

From the link: "Reason For Adding: Fat militant leftie who makes workers & commuters lives' a misery by calling his union members out on strike whilst he trousers the thick end of £133,000 (plus expenses!) per year. That's Socialism for you, Crow style! "

sketchley

Stevo 666 wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

http://www.punchinthefacebook.com/punch/bob-crow

Great find Sketchley - that's made feel better already

From the link: "Reason For Adding: Fat militant leftie who makes workers & commuters lives' a misery by calling his union members out on strike whilst he trousers the thick end of £133,000 (plus expenses!) per year. That's Socialism for you, Crow style! "

Unfortunately it's not the RMT striking on boxing day......

Stevo_666

Sketchley wrote:

Unfortunately it's not the RMT striking on boxing day......

Ah WTF, it still made me feel better. Now who's charge of ASLEF, he might be on there as well?

okgo

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness to their job, they're not paid for what they do, but for what they know.

It's comparable to commercial pilots.

Or more appropriately bus drivers. Show me a bus driver that earns anything like what the tube drivers earn? Equally unsociable hours? Yes. Likelihood of hitting/killing someone and the related stress? Much greater. Complicated job? Well, they've got a steering wheel for a start, plus they have to drive all sorts of different routes, cope with diversions etc.

Quite, fucking easy job in comparison to bus driving I'd imagine.

And to comapre it to flying a plane, ffs get a grip Rick, I don't know you, but you do seem to have a tendancy to go against the grain seemingly on purpose! What can you do if a trains system goes down, you can slow down or speed up, that is it, when a plains goes wrong, there's rather much more you can and will have to do.

AND I'm sure there are plenty of pilots out there with worse packages than tube drivers working for pvt companies, nmot to mention the fact they have paid £50k + in some cases for training. There's no possible way anyone can stick up for the tube drivers in my mind.

The only solace I get is knowing they'll only ever earn £50k. At least most people have the ability to earn more than they do one way or another.

veronese68

To answer the earlier question of would I be prepared to drive a tube for £45k and 47 days holiday.
Yes. I can see the downsides, but that is more than my wife and I are earning between us at the moment, and very nearly twice the holiday I get.

rick_chasey

okgo wrote:

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness to their job, they're not paid for what they do, but for what they know.

It's comparable to commercial pilots.

Or more appropriately bus drivers. Show me a bus driver that earns anything like what the tube drivers earn? Equally unsociable hours? Yes. Likelihood of hitting/killing someone and the related stress? Much greater. Complicated job? Well, they've got a steering wheel for a start, plus they have to drive all sorts of different routes, cope with diversions etc.

Quite, ******* easy job in comparison to bus driving I'd imagine.

And to comapre it to flying a plane, ffs get a grip Rick, I don't know you, but you do seem to have a tendancy to go against the grain seemingly on purpose! What can you do if a trains system goes down, you can slow down or speed up, that is it, when a plains goes wrong, there's rather much more you can and will have to do.

AND I'm sure there are plenty of pilots out there with worse packages than tube drivers working for pvt companies, nmot to mention the fact they have paid £50k + in some cases for training. There's no possible way anyone can stick up for the tube drivers in my mind.

The only solace I get is knowing they'll only ever earn £50k. At least most people have the ability to earn more than they do one way or another.

I only really meant it in terms of what they do...

Most pilots do very little in flight, but they're paid a fortune to be there when things go wrong.

It's not against the grain, I'm just puncturing the idea that because they don't do much they don't deserve cash.

They may be paid too much or may not, but whatever they get paid, it's for their knowledge.

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

. To ask for more money yes the greed needs to be exposed. It's a public service not a pure profit making company.

So the greed's OK if they're private?

OK, gotcha.

I would say so, yes. Money and profit is a core driving factor in privately owned companies and it's not frowned upon if the workforce is there for money, chasing a bonus and wants more money - assuming profit is soaring.

This is why I have no problems with bankers bonuses.

A person providing a public service, I don't tolerate the greed as much, if at all really. What if Paramedics decided to up and strike because they wanted triple pay and a day off in lieu if they worked on boxing day...

sketchley

I do not have a problem with what they earn and the number of days holiday they get, in fact I would not even know about it if they didn't keep going on strike.

I do have problem with them holding London over a barrel given the fact that the deal they are on is rather good and better than most Londoners enjoy.

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

They may be paid too much or may not, but whatever they get paid, it's for their knowledge.

I think you'll find that they are paid according to the specific skills and knowledge they have which will include driving/operating a train, knowing and being able to take action in the event of an emergency. Problem some health and safety and first aid thrown in.

Trouble is with their pay is that there isn't a direct comparison even piloting British Rail train is different, so we can only compare to the nearest thing (being an actual pilot is way off) and the size of the salary itself, which is a lot.

sketchley

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

They may be paid too much or may not, but whatever they get paid, it's for their knowledge.

I think you'll find that they are paid according to the specific skills and knowledge they have which will include driving/operating a train, knowing and being able to take action in the event of an emergency. Problem some health and safety and first aid thrown in.

Trouble is with their pay is that there isn't a direct comparison even piloting British Rail train is different, so we can only compare to the nearest thing (being an actual pilot is way off) and the size of the salary itself, which is a lot.

You can compare them to other train drivers on other lines in the country. This link will show they are up there but not at the top of the train drivers salary. http://www.traindrivertrainee.com/Train ... tions.html of course this doesn't include holiday and other benefits.

DonDaddyD

Sketchley wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

They may be paid too much or may not, but whatever they get paid, it's for their knowledge.

I think you'll find that they are paid according to the specific skills and knowledge they have which will include driving/operating a train, knowing and being able to take action in the event of an emergency. Problem some health and safety and first aid thrown in.

Trouble is with their pay is that there isn't a direct comparison even piloting British Rail train is different, so we can only compare to the nearest thing (being an actual pilot is way off) and the size of the salary itself, which is a lot.

You can compare them to other train drivers on other lines in the country. This link will show they are up there but not at the top of the train drivers salary. http://www.traindrivertrainee.com/Train ... tions.html of course this doesn't include holiday and other benefits.

Can you really when there is such disparity between London wages/costs and the rest of the Country?

ETA: And working conditions between a British Rail Driver and an Undergorund driver are completely different. I'd be surprised if working conditions and the impact of health wasn't a factor in determining the large number of holidays.

sketchley

Ok you have a point about London wages etc but if you look at that table it's interesting to see where they are in it and who is top / bottom.

Also we've been here before with the health argument. If a tube driver was at greater risk RMT would be demanding air conditioned driver cabs to protect them from it. They would be striking a lot more than they do if the driver was intentionally exposed to risk when it could be fixed. Show me some evidence of increased health risks in tube drivers and I'll change my mind.

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can you really when there is such disparity between London wages/costs and the rest of the Country?

I'm going off on a tangent now so simply ignore....

That's an ever increasing circle. Bigger wages, spending goes up / Higher costs, wages go up.
Maybe now that wages are stabilising/stagnating/dropping, maybe housing costs will do the same.

DonDaddyD

Sketchley wrote:

Ok you have a point about London wages etc but if you look at that table it's interesting to see where they are in it and who is top / bottom.

Also we've been here before with the health argument. If a tube driver was at greater risk RMT would be demanding air conditioned driver cabs to protect them for it. They would be striking a lot more than they do if the driver was intentionally exposed to risk when it could be fixed. Show me some evidence of increased health risks in tube drivers and I'll change my mind.

There working conditions will include the entire environment - no natural light, air for hours - and not just the driver cab. Health risks would be psychological and physical.

I'll find that evidence! In the mean time can you explain to me why they get so much holiday?

sketchley

DonDaddyD wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

Ok you have a point about London wages etc but if you look at that table it's interesting to see where they are in it and who is top / bottom.

Also we've been here before with the health argument. If a tube driver was at greater risk RMT would be demanding air conditioned driver cabs to protect them for it. They would be striking a lot more than they do if the driver was intentionally exposed to risk when it could be fixed. Show me some evidence of increased health risks in tube drivers and I'll change my mind.

There working conditions will include the entire environment - no natural light, air for hours - and not just the driver cab. Health risks would be psychological and physical.

I'll find that evidence! In the mean time can you explain to me why they get so much holiday?

Re Natural Light - Did you know that only 45% of the tube lines are actually underground. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesof ... /1608.aspx in fact only two lines are completely underground, Waterloo and City and Victoria.

As for why they get 45 days a year I don't know exactly but my guess is it happened as part of pay / strike negotiation. In other words rather than pay them more money they gave them more holiday that way both sides could claim a victory. I'll try and find out exactly why and post back.

That being said as as per earlier post, I have no problem with what they earn and number of days holiday, I have problem with them striking and effecting Londoners the majority of whom earn less and have less holiday. If they were earning less than the national average and were striking for better pay I might have sympathy.

DonDaddyD

Sketchley wrote:

That being said as as per earlier post, I have no problem with what they earn and number of days holiday, I have problem with them striking and effecting Londoners the majority of whom earn less and have less holiday. If they were earning less than the national average and were striking for better pay I might have sympathy.

We're on the same page. It's just my chosen profession makes me more sympathetic to matters relating to health.

jds_1981

http://www.traindrivertrainee.com/Train ... tions.html

Suspect the cross country routes have 'worse' conditions as they wouldn't get to sleep at home every night as well

jds_1981

I must be being slow. They're striking on boxing day because they want benefits for working on that day. Okay, they don't work, job done.
They then will strike on three additional days? wtf?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

Staff will walk out on Boxing Day, 16 January, 3 and 13 February.

daviesee

Triple time for striking on a Bank Holiday :twisted:

Clever Pun

JZed wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ever wonder why they get paid that much?

Militant Union, threatens the daily life of millions of people. LU has to give in. Certainly the case for the Olympics. Or 1.5x that of a bus driver.

Roll on automatic tube trains.

It's a really shit job, but they get paid hansomly for it. Something they're fully aware of when they go through the 7-8 rounds of interviews to get there as unsurprisingly a lot of people want that job

The jubilee trains are already 99% automatic