Are we confusing new riders with all these MTB 'types'?

Northwind

Going right back to the original post... How did the lycra chaps fail to understand this:



(for the INRATS crowd- it says "This is hard as balls")

Anonymous

It does say "the whole course is rollable, as long as you're careful." and that's exactly right.

Even the pavement drop bit has the chicken run roll and that's now easier than it was. Have to say it's always my option

cooldad

As the king of chicken runs, I agree.

Thewaylander

bails87 wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

bails87 wrote:

deadkenny wrote:

To be fair, Cwmcarn DH is designed for a wide range of skills and is perfectly rideable on an XC bike, hard tails, and whatever you like really

Hmm interesting, the XC trails are surprisingly easy, I could liven a CC trip up by doing the DH.......

Tougher than the fake smooth at Cannock though fella, FTD and Monkey trail are super smooth and flat

You moan all the time (justifiably!) that Cwn Carn is boring! As you said, the 'freeride' area is more like a red XC.

The black stuff at cannock is the trickiest stuff I've seen anywhere I've ridden, and there are a lot of places I haven't ridden, but I'm not 'untravelled'. A smooth trail covered in technical features, berms, jumps and drops is more interesting to me than a featureless trail that happens to be a bit bumpy, not that FTD/Monkey is even that smooth.

Have you done the new black options? http://youtu.be/wZP3rG1N7Fc?hd=1

See i'd disagree, Jumps are easily rolled with no skills, berms, akke cornering easier thats the idea, just takes a bit of speed n balls.=, and drops tons of those on Cwm cos of the rocks :P

I still maintain that riding rough terrain fast is far more challenging than smooth ride with a few bumps built in for air. but then we all enjoy our area's of riding, i always think of trails more rocks please!! lol

1mancity2

bails87 wrote:

Mojo_666 wrote:

Someone who can afford to spend 5K on a bike is probably not quite as stupid as some of you would like to think they are.

Perhaps 'lacking common sense' would be a better term.


For describing the thickos.

And let's not forget Mario Ballotelli, a man who could buy a new Bentley every week, but is so dim he almost burnt his own house down by setting off fireworks in the bathroom.

Now taking the pi$$ out of a city player is against the rules!!

If he is spending 5k on a bike then its loose change to him, just like a footballer buying a bentley, why?

Because they can.

You never know he may get the bike and pin the DH runs like a pro. (but I doubt it)

1mancity2

Thewaylander wrote:

I still maintain that riding rough terrain fast is far more challenging than smooth ride with a few bumps built in for air. but then we all enjoy our area's of riding, i always think of trails more rocks please!! lol

X2

Kaise

common courtesey is definately needed!

When i went for the uplift, my first ever, i had no idea what to expect but everytime i got off the bus i made sure i hung back and let peeps hit it hard before me.

as the confidence grew and i was catching people as they took it slowly on sections i didnt need to i decided to go for it off the bat, came off big time take a chunk out of my knee guards and bruising my elbow. i walked to the two light black section pushing and limping. I rode the 2 light all the way and felt nervy on every section, but once at the bottom i manned up and went back up and did it again (with some serious encouragement from the boys) and i didnt look back

i was a novice at the start with mountain bike experience of 12 or so years, i left knowing that i had advanced my abilities.

so in all ghonesty i was one of those noobs you talk about, but when gave way when required and didnt slow anyone down!

bails87

1mancity2 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Mojo_666 wrote:

Someone who can afford to spend 5K on a bike is probably not quite as stupid as some of you would like to think they are.

Perhaps 'lacking common sense' would be a better term.

Now taking the pi$$ out of a city player is against the rules!!

If he is spending 5k on a bike then its loose change to him, just like a footballer buying a bentley, why?

Because they can.

You never know he may get the bike and pin the DH runs like a pro. (but I doubt it)

Oh yeah, he can spend his money on what he wants, but having a lot of money doesn't necessarily mean you're super-intelligent, that's all I was getting at.

Kaise

these are two examples of lots of money and no sense!

bails87

Thewaylander wrote:

See i'd disagree, Jumps are easily rolled with no skills, berms, akke cornering easier thats the idea, just takes a bit of speed n balls.=, and drops tons of those on Cwm cos of the rocks :P

I still maintain that riding rough terrain fast is far more challenging than smooth ride with a few bumps built in for air. but then we all enjoy our area's of riding, i always think of trails more rocks please!! lol

Yeah, rocks are interesting, I'd rather have rockiness and trail features, which is why Whinlatter was amazing.

But my point was that there is stuff at Cannock Chase, on the black options, that has no easy option, it's a 3 foot drop onto off camber rocks between trees, or nothing. There is nothing at Cwm Carn that is technically challenging in that way once you've done the climb, and that's challenging in a 'tricky' way rather than a 'scary' way.

As for drops at Cwm Carn....I didn't see any, nothing compulsory anyway, and I was looking for them! I enjoyed it more the other week when I was there than the first time I went, partly because I knew where stuff was and where I could get on the gas, and the general feel of the trails. But if someone did the black 'skull & crossbones' "freeride" area at Cwm Carn, and then thought, "hey, I've done a black graded freeride area, so the black on the XC trails at Cannock/LLandegla/whereever will be easy peasy" they'd probably end up hurting themselves.

In your own words
viewtopic.php?f=10013&t=12789317

thewaylander wrote:

The climbs have been smoothed to and any awkward roots removed...... I mean the Cwm Carn section is meant to be black, and there isn't a tiny challenge in it?

[the freeride section is] now some table tops(so can be riiden over) witha few closely packed berms at the end more because they look pretty than for any good riding

I rest my case, m'lud

But yep, horses for courses. I like rockiness, I just think Cwm could be loads better than it is.

Thewaylander

Still prefer rocks lol,

And we have a DH track that is accessable fromt he XC track which absolutely hammers for difficulty anything had there, thats the bonus we have it all with options to try or stay on red which you did hehe.

I have to admit i didnt see anything that technical at Monkey or FTD they were high ways to me, with alot of berms in places where they were of no use to carry speed, which made them pointless, that was my beef with it pointless features very annoying to me, onlyput in features that suit an area thats what annoyed me most with those hehe, but then I am defensive of cwm it used to be pure great

Back on topic, if you on my trail outta myway!!!

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

I have to admit i didnt see anything that technical at Monkey or FTD

Someone told me, deadly serious, that there's nothing in the entire of Scotland as technical as the Werewolf "drop" on the Monkey. Being a coward, I don't often laugh right in people's faces but I had to make an exception.

.blitz

supersonic

Peaty's drop in Wharny is the best ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-rvn93wrrQ

Not bad on a HT! Not sure if he lived...

bails87

Northwind wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

I have to admit i didnt see anything that technical at Monkey or FTD

Someone told me, deadly serious, that there's nothing in the entire of Scotland as technical as the Werewolf "drop" on the Monkey. Being a coward, I don't often laugh right in people's faces but I had to make an exception.

I've not even been to Scotland, and I love what they've done at Cannock, but I couldn't believe that. It's awkward looking, but it's only a small drop.

I'd be disappointed if I drove for a million hours to get to Glentress and found nothing trickier than that!

That's on the red, btw, the black options are a big step up. I imagine Scotland has stuff like that on a more sustained basis, rather than a short, sharp shock, as it is on the Chase.

Clank

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not really...

It's about what 'hits' they can take.

Road bikes - bend if you hit a 3 inch curb

XC bikes don't but may if any more.

AM bikes will take 6 inches of curb ok

DH will just ride over a 6 inch curb type thing.

Fit everything else in between.

I going to counter this.

I take on 12" steps, up or down, on a XC hardtail. I haven't broken it yet. Hell, I take on curbs, regular as you like, on the road bike and haven't snapped it. Admittedly, this isn't 'hitting' them, but riding them.

What's being proved here is that 'care and attention' are the biggest issues, not the breed of bike. Did no-one ride Tenterhill or Stanage before full-susser AM rigs? Yes, they did, and the bikes survived and we went back and did them again. It wasn't quick, but it was sustainable - within the limits of the rider and the bike.

Many bikes will do most things (and IMV an 'XC' bike does the most with the least compromise). All that needs to happen is to ride with care, and take account of the environment you're riding through.

Sadly, however, shops only sell the machinery, not the philosophies. It takes time to learn the skills necessary to make best use of whatever breed of bike is purchased. But it can be difficult to get that message across in these days of 'instant gratification'.

I think the media doesn't help the matter. But that's a whole n'other post.

bluechair84

Clank wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not really...

It's about what 'hits' they can take.

Road bikes - bend if you hit a 3 inch curb

XC bikes don't but may if any more.

AM bikes will take 6 inches of curb ok

DH will just ride over a 6 inch curb type thing.

Fit everything else in between.

I going to counter this.

I take on 12" steps, up or down, on a XC hardtail. I haven't broken it yet. Hell, I take on curbs, regular as you like, on the road bike and haven't snapped it. Admittedly, this isn't 'hitting' them, but riding them.

What's being proved here is that 'care and attention' are the biggest issues, not the breed of bike. Did no-one ride Tenterhill or Stanage before full-susser AM rigs? Yes, they did, and the bikes survived and we went back and did them again. It wasn't quick, but it was sustainable - within the limits of the rider and the bike.

Many bikes will do most things (and IMV an 'XC' bike does the most with the least compromise). All that needs to happen is to ride with care, and take account of the environment you're riding through.

Sadly, however, shops only sell the machinery, not the philosophies. It takes time to learn the skills necessary to make best use of whatever breed of bike is purchased. But it can be difficult to get that message across in these days of 'instant gratification'.

I think the media doesn't help the matter. But that's a whole n'other post.

I is going to counter this...

An XC bike does the most with the least compromise, depending on the kind of terrain you do. An AM bike I think is the most versitile, but will be severely compromised to an XC racer, or a DHer. But I agree with the spirit of your post which I think went thus; most bikes are far more capable than most people give them credit for. Moment -> XC races, trail riding, local DH and DH in the Alps. The Torque I've bought will be used for Trail riding up to DHing.

Muttly1981

chemicalviking wrote:

im new to mtb about 5 months, i bought a cheap bike and started riding now as im gaining more skills and pushing myself more and more, its becoming clearer on what type of riding im doing. so my next bike will reflect this. i feel too many people watch you tube and go ' that looks easy i will try that' then spend a fortune on bikes and all the kit only for it to end up on ebay 12 mths later.
i may not ride like danny hart just yet but im a lot closer than i was 5 mths ago.

there is a lot of bikes on the market but coming from a beginner point of view just research a lot then do some more.

I was showing some of the lads at work helmet cam footage of the Parralel Universe at Llandegla a few months ago and one of them commented "Pah, that looks like something you'd ride at center parcs" now i admit it isn't the most technical riding in the world but it's fast and fun. A week later we were riding into work through the local country park and the same bloke commented "how much difference is there between this and Llandegla?" as we were riding up a gentle slope and he was blowing out of his arse, i just told him that if your struggling now you'll wouldn't even make it past the skills area on the climb up.

supersonic

12" is well within the bounds of an XC race bike! Now when we talk about 12feet then things get interesting...

Chunkers1980

Not if you hit a curb with no rounded edges without 'doing' anything i.e. completely unexpected. Summed up as 'Admittedly, this isn't 'hitting' them, but riding them.'

You can do 12" on a road bike if you don't actually hit it and ride it to land softly - but that's missing the point.

mcnultycop

Pudseyp wrote:

anyway i might buy a old LDV Sherpa van and take it on the next Oulton Park track day...after all its a similar thing..

I actually took my 240bhp 1972 VW Beetle Drag car round Oulton Park on a track day. It was brilliant. An entire day spent looking out of the side window and fighting with the car, in a cloud of smoke.

Northwind

I used to do motorbike trackdays on my commuting bike, it was great... Turn up at knockhill, it's pissing rain, everyone else is on track bikes and they're fitting wet tyres and tyre warmers, but nobody else had heated grips- win.

Clank

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not if you hit a curb with no rounded edges without 'doing' anything i.e. completely unexpected. Summed up as 'Admittedly, this isn't 'hitting' them, but riding them.'

You can do 12" on a road bike if you don't actually hit it and ride it to land softly - but that's missing the point.

No. It isn't missing the point. It IS the point.

This is how I see it. Them new to the sport should be being encouraged to learn the necessary riding skills before being made to worry about the 'optimum' kind of bike for the terrain. Going back and reading Clunkers post, it reads like I'd need a full-suss 'AM' type bike just to get to work because curbs are involved. We all know thats just not the case. People can take their budget 'XC' style hardtails to trail centres or bridleways and have an absolute blast - all the time learing the kind of skills that will allow them to get better use out of their next uber-velo.

You want to start to doing car track days - you don't just step out into an F3 car. No. Sure it's optimal for the terrain and all the best drivers have them, but starting in a cart or a road-car is a far easier introduction and teaches the kind of handling skills (and car prep skills) you'll need not to turn your £100k racer into a ball of carbon-fibre and fire. Same applies to bikes (and motorbikes - thank you, Northwind!).

The whole thing is confusing to beginers, and it really doesn't have to be. People have just got to take themselves back to when they took their first tenative pedalstrokes into the countryside.