Braking from the hoods

Gallywomack

I've mentioned this on one or two threads but it's still an issue that concerns me slightly. I've just got my first road bike and while I'm enjoying riding it, I am very conscious that my braking power from the hoods is not at all good. I'm obviously using anticipation to shed speed, so in the normal course of things it's not really a problem. But if I had to make an emergency stop, I'm not confident that I can generate sufficient stopping power to avoid the sort of SMIDSY incidents that I have managed to avoid in the past on my old, flat-barred bike.

Is there anything I can do? I am going to fit new pads as I'm just using the stock ones and assume they're rubbish (but in fairness, braking from the drops is fine). I'm wondering if a bit more lever travel might give me a more favourable squeezing position from the hoods so will try that. But in general, is this just something you have to live with, or would you normally expect to be able to perform an effective emergency stop from the hoods?

clarkey cat

you should have no problem at all braking from the hoods.

perhaps your handlebars are too far out and you are stretching too much?

veronese68

I can't brake as hard on the hoods as I can in the drops, I think that is normal. I have found that by having the cable a bit slacker than I was used to from riding my mountain bike I can brake quite a bit harder.
Not so slack that you can pull the lever into the bar obviously. I used to run my MTB with V brakes with very little slack. Road bike brakes are not as powerful as V brakes or discs, hopefully you don't have cantis like I do.

Gallywomack

clarkey cat wrote:

you should have no problem at all braking from the hoods.

perhaps your handlebars are too far out and you are stretching too much?

It's possible, there isn't much bend in my arm when on the hoods so maybe a shorter stem is in order. That said, the riding position isn't unduly uncomfortable in general. I just don't quite see how I can get a favourable hand position on the hoods to apply sufficient force to the levers - the same applies if I'm just standing next to the bike. In the drops, I'm squeezing directly back with my fingers onto my thumb - a crush grip. Whereas from the hoods, my fingers aren't squeezing back towards the thumb, they're squeezing back towards the base of the palm, which is a much less effective grip.

TBH this is all a bit premature as I really need to put some decent pads on and have a bit of a fettle and see how it is then, but I was just wondering if this is something other riders encounter.

phy2sll2

Swissstop greens are the way to go.

rolf_f

I once did a comparison of effectiveness of different types of brake including drop position. Certainly they are less effective from the hoods but far better than the old, pre STI sort that are pivoted much lower down. On those you really just need to move to the drops (which I always do if I anticipate a need to brake suddenly - that just becomes second nature). I don't find this precaution necessary on modern bikes.

Incidentally, in the dry, there is little difference in braking distance between a relatively heavy MTB with discs and a light road bike with calipers and good pads.

BTW - have you small hands? Shimano hoods are enormous; Campag and SRAM both have less reach and might make things easier. You can get shims to help reduce reach as well but afaik they only work to a point.

bigmat

I have the same issue with braking from the hoods. I find you can't generate the same stopping power as you can on the drops so if I'm in a situation where I think I might need to brake sharply I'll usually get on the drops. Better brake pads should help of course. The other thing with riding on the tops is that if you do have to do an emergency stop you are a lot more likely to go over the bars - on the drops you can brace yourself behind the bars and its easier to shift your weight over the back wheel.

bails87

Hmmm, sounds like something's wrong. How much lever travel is there? Are the levers moving a long way before the brakes bite?

EDIT: Also, it sounds like MTBing really improves your (/my) bike handling skills. Going over the bars due an emergency stop on a road bike?! :?

rick_chasey

A little slack helps a lot.

When my bike comes back from the shops (with the inevitable brake rub > IRRITATING) it's always too tight.

jejv

Yeah.

It's cos the lever design is crap (Shimano, Campy,...). On the hoods you're trying to apply force to the lever at an oblique angle to the lever. A dog-leg lever would fix it. But ooh-er that just wouldn't look right.

Shimano levers can be made less bad by fitting the reach adjustment spacers that should come with the levers.

I can't see what could be done with Campag.

Gallywomack

One aspect I neglected to mention is that currently c. 110kg of rider is part of the equation Hopefully that will change a bit in time.

Cheers for the replies, so it sounds like other than performing the necessary fettling, I should perhaps hone my ability to sense when I should get into the drops (and also my ability to do so quickly and safely!).

Edit:

Hmmm, sounds like something's wrong. How much lever travel is there? Are the levers moving a long way before the brakes bite?

No, quite the opposite, on the initial fettle I ensured there wasn't much travel, as I would have done with v-brakes. I suspect a bit more travel would help a bit (as Veronese and Rick also suggest)

Pufftmw

Just ride the drops all the time - I do

jds_1981

Just keep at it, in a few months you'll have forearms like a climbers and will be crushing walnuts in your hands.

Gallywomack

Pufftmw wrote:

Just ride the drops all the time - I do

Yes I've noticed that

Sadly, the aforementioned 110kgs includes a bit too much belly to enable me to comfortably stay in the drops for long periods...though I'm sure it'll improve as I get used to the bike.

Kieran_Burns

Gallywomack wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

Just ride the drops all the time - I do

Yes I've noticed that

Sadly, the aforementioned 110kgs includes a bit too much belly to enable me to comfortably stay in the drops for long periods...though I'm sure it'll improve as I get used to the bike.

You're missing the point that there is an advantage to having a bit of a belly when you're on the drops - it acts as a spring-loaded cushion firing your legs back down into the power stroke and softening the snap at the top of the stroke.

At least this is what I keep telling myself....

il_principe

+ 1 for SwissStop.

notsoblue

jds_1981 wrote:

Just keep at it, in a few months you'll have forearms like a climbers and will be crushing walnuts in your hands.

This (kinda). When I first moved to drops, I didn't feel like I was braking efficiently from the hoods, but you build up the strength in your fingers to be able to do that eventually. This is assuming your hands fit the stis properly of course. I have a dainty SRAM set and love the fit.

Topaxci

Really suprised by the comments on here. I always brake from the hoods and pretty much assumed it was the done thing.
I do ride fairly light on the brakes but I've always been impressed how fast my road bike can stop when it REALLY has to.
I can only really get my fingertips to the brake levers from the drops, which to my mind is a bit hazardous if I need them in a hurry. So I always pop up to the hoods on the approach to anywhere I think I may need to brake.
I have fairly long fingers so maybe it's just the way my bike is laid out, will have to experiment with some freinds bikes now.

Gallywomack

NB, it's just occured to me that the thread title looks like it should be euphemism for something, a bit like 'putting from the rough' or similar.

Re hand size - you'll be glad to hear I don't have small hands, but I suppose my fingers are slightly on the stubby side so that may be a factor. The STIs are Shimano 2300 and I suppose the hoods are quite large so that's probably a factor.

notsoblue

Gallywomack wrote:

NB, it's just occured to me that the thread title looks like it should be euphemism for something, a bit like 'putting from the rough' or similar.

Hah!

TheStone

Brakepads will help. Koolstop or Swissstop (a bit more expensive).
The stock Shimano ones are not great.

The newer Shimano groupsets (6700, 7900 etc) have much better braking from the hoods .... and better pads.

sketchley

112kgs of rider here and recently switch from VBrakes on a flat bar to a road bike and was shocked at first at the breaking difference. At first I had similar problems, upgrading the pads from the standard really helped, as did adjusting the bars so the hoods were slightly higher. The "bit of slack" message above is spot on compared to V-Brakes as I found out when I adjusted the brakes so they were the same as on my Hybrid but found I had next to no stopping power as I couldn't get the leverage. It will get better as you get used to it but I would recommend going to the local park and practising emergency stops if you are worried about it, rather than waiting until you have to stop and can't. I have no problems now and can stop pretty quick but I do find myself leaving more more room than I did on the Hybrid.

rolf_f

notsoblue wrote:

Gallywomack wrote:

NB, it's just occured to me that the thread title looks like it should be euphemism for something, a bit like 'putting from the rough' or similar.

Hah!

Not as bad as the "Is it safe to flash" thread in Road Beginners which so far, nobody has managed to do the right thing by

Headhuunter

BigMat wrote:

I have the same issue with braking from the hoods. I find you can't generate the same stopping power as you can on the drops so if I'm in a situation where I think I might need to brake sharply I'll usually get on the drops. Better brake pads should help of course. The other thing with riding on the tops is that if you do have to do an emergency stop you are a lot more likely to go over the bars - on the drops you can brace yourself behind the bars and its easier to shift your weight over the back wheel.

I find the opposite, I'm far more confident braking from the hoods andd if I am approaching a situation which may require me to brake I get back on the hoods. I guess the braking power from the drops is higher but I think having a better view of the road and having my weight further back in case of emergency makes me feel more comfortable....

notsoblue

Headhuunter wrote:

BigMat wrote:

I have the same issue with braking from the hoods. I find you can't generate the same stopping power as you can on the drops so if I'm in a situation where I think I might need to brake sharply I'll usually get on the drops. Better brake pads should help of course. The other thing with riding on the tops is that if you do have to do an emergency stop you are a lot more likely to go over the bars - on the drops you can brace yourself behind the bars and its easier to shift your weight over the back wheel.

I find the opposite, I'm far more confident braking from the hoods andd if I am approaching a situation which may require me to brake I get back on the hoods. I guess the braking power from the drops is higher but I think having a better view of the road and having my weight further back in case of emergency makes me feel more comfortable....

Me too, I feel more stable on the hoods than the drops.

keyser__soze

Topaxci wrote:

I have fairly long fingers so maybe it's just the way my bike is laid out

Find the same with all three of my bikes, always hit the hoods whenever I feel I may need to brake suddenly. Maybe I need to dial in the reach, tho that'll involve getting some shims for the 105-equipped bikes.

rolf_f

Headhuunter wrote:

I find the opposite, I'm far more confident braking from the hoods andd if I am approaching a situation which may require me to brake I get back on the hoods. I guess the braking power from the drops is higher but I think having a better view of the road and having my weight further back in case of emergency makes me feel more comfortable....

Leverage is far better from the drops and your CoG is lower so you can, theoretically, change direction more quickly.

I'll see if I can remember to dig up my measurements tonight - the braking distance from the hoods was greater but not hugely so irrc.

suzyb

I find I can brake better from the hoods then the drops.

I can't reach the levers as well from the drops and don't know how (if possible) to bring them in a bit.

Not that it's a huge issue, I don't spend a lot of time in the drops as I find it harder to breathe.

Gallywomack

Now all I need to do is decide whether I should ensure SwissStop cartridges will fit my callipers (Tektro R316A , h'apparently) before purchasing, or just pull the trigger and assume they do. Decisions, decisions...

mudcow007

its all about leverage init?

the fulcrum is the brake lever pivot point so the closest you are to the fulcrum the less force is exerted on the lever, lower on the lever (drops)...in the words of Jeremy Clarkson "POWER!!!!"

kelsen

How much travel is there on the levers before the brake pads bite? This might sound counterintuitive, but I find if your brakes are adjusted so there is a bit more travel, it gives better leverage when braking from the hoods. The other factor of course is getting better brake pads.