Newbie Bike Building

PaulC7

Thanks for the explanation its cleared things up there.

cooldad wrote:

if an expert on cutting edge sports car technology couldn't work that out for himself, you probably should have used simpler words.

I never said i was an expert i simply said my job involves driving those type of cars so know the difference between good and bad handling.

Pudseyp

PaulC7 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Edgy or confused?

Confused is what i will be when it comes to choosing parts as you already found out i know nothing.

Which is exactly why yo should buy something second hand...otherwise you could end up with something like this !

The Rookie

Careful what you wish for, it may be what he wants!

Better shifters offer a more precise shift at lighter lever loads, better rear mechs have less play so offer more precision and are lighter, better wheels are lighter for quicker acceleration and better control by any suspension, they also have better controlled flex for comfort without loss of precision.

A Ferrari would handle better than an Astra as its supension, vehicle body stiffness and unsprung masses are all better, ignoring the effect of any add on computer control afterwards.

Simon

dhobiwallah

Why don't you transfer the parts from the Dunlop onto your new frame and then replace them a bit at a time as you purchase them.

Your new bike will be rideable straight away (or more likely you will understand a lot of the compatibility issues you will face but haven't realised yet!). seatpost/seat tube sizes / bb sizes / rotor attachment standards / bar-stem sizing etc etc etc. Nothing beats personal experience for learning. You can get a lot of knowledge from here to reduce mistakes; but only you are in front of the rig realising that the 2 parts in your hand won't fit together :oops:

If you need a bike to ride locally on while you complete your build it will probably be cheaper to buy a 30quid clunker from fleabay in the interim than it will be to drop some greens on several incompatible parts for your new build that you then can't sell for what you paid for them....

And while I understand that you don't want a donor bike as the parts won't be exactly what you want, it will take a lot of searching to find pimped/bling components for an entire build at knockdown prices. If your ideas of the final build are so demanding with a small budget it might take a loooong time to get it on the trails :evil:

bails87

TBH, just buy a second hand bike and learn about stuff as and when it needs maintenance/replacing.

In the nicest possible way: you don't really have a clue and trying to build a bike could end up as an expensive and unenjoyable mistake.

louthepoo

bails87 wrote:

TBH, just buy a second hand bike and learn about stuff as and when it needs maintenance/replacing.

In the nicest possible way: you don't really have a clue and trying to build a bike could end up as an expensive and unenjoyable mistake.

what he says

bobs bikes

Which is exactly why yo should buy something second hand...otherwise you could end up with something like this !

[/quote]



thats f'ing awesome!

idiotdogbrain

Frame:
Can be either hardtail (no suspension) or suspended. Suspension layout can take many forms depending on where the pivots are. Your Dunlop is what’s known as URT (Unified Rear Triangle) which means the bottom bracket (where the cranks are, and hence where your weight is when standing) is part of the unsprung mass (which moves when the suspension moves) and thus not very good. Look at the suspension layout of the Enduro you posted – you’ll see the bottom bracket is part of the main front triangle.

Certain specifications of the frame will dictate what/how other parts fit:
Head tube – tube at the front that the fork steerer tube fits into. Typically designated as either 1 1/8”, 1 ½” or tapered, which is a combination of smaller at the top and larger at the bottom. The dimension refers to the outer diameter of the fork steerer tube. What size your frame has will dictate what headset you need and what forks will fit.
Seat tube – tube the seatpost fits into. Internal dimension will determine what size diameter seatpost you need, usually 27.2mm, 30.9mm or 31.6mm on most modern bikes. The front derailleur will fit to this tube lower down, so the outer diameter will determine the fitting of that, unless it has a tab for a DMD (Direct Mount Derailleur) that bolts on differently.
Bottom Bracket – tube that the Bottom Bracket (bearing set that the cranks turn on) fits into. Will be either 68mm or 73mm wide and threaded, the width determines whether or not you need to fit spacers to the bottom bracket bearings to get the correct chainline (look that up!)
Rear brake fitting – if it’s a modern bike with disc mounts these will usually be I.S. (International Standard) for a 140mm disc rotor. If you want to use a larger rotor you’ll need an adaptor between the frame and the brake caliper (most of which are Post Mount)
Rear dropouts – cutouts that the rear wheel axle fits into. Most frames that you’ll be looking at will be QR (Quick Release) which is a 10mm diameter open axle that uses a quick release skewer to hold it in place. There are also various bolt-through options such as Maxle but don’t worry about that. The rear axle type will determine what axle your rear wheel needs to have.

Forks:
Can be either Rigid (no suspension) or Suspended (self-explanatory!) The steerer tube is the tube which fits into the frame and the size you require will be determined by the type and length of the head tube on the frame.
Rigid forks are usually steel or carbon fibre and modern ones will generally have I.S. disc brake mounts, so you will need an adaptor to fit Post Mount calipers.
Suspension forks are often designated by the amount of travel they have (100mm, 120mm, etc) and by the type of spring they use (coil or air). They will all generally have oil damping in them to control the compression and rebound rate of the fork. If you have a suspension frame, you would typically match the fork travel to the frame’s rear wheel travel. Suspension forks typically have a Post Mount disc caliper mounting for 160mm discs, so if you wish to use a larger rotor you’ll need an adaptor.

This is just the very basics about only the frame and forks! If you don’t even know this, then building your own bike is not for you. You will also not be able to build anything halfway decent from scratch for less than about £7-800, even if you buy a lot of parts second-hand.
Buy something second-hand for around that, ride it, and as stuff breaks learn what is it and how to fix/replace it, and what the specifications of it are.

Ask lots of questions on here, and read everything on Sheldon Brown’s website (Google it). Seriously, everything.
Ride for a year or so, learn as much as you can, and then maybe you’ll have an idea about what you need to do to build your own bike. Like not fitting parts designed for hybrids to a mountain bike

Good luck!

Holyzeus

idiotdogbrain wrote:

Frame:
Can be either hardtail (no suspension) or suspended. Suspension layout can take many forms depending on where the pivots are. Your Dunlop is what’s known as URT (Unified Rear Triangle) which means the bottom bracket (where the cranks are, and hence where your weight is when standing) is part of the unsprung mass (which moves when the suspension moves) and thus not very good. Look at the suspension layout of the Enduro you posted – you’ll see the bottom bracket is part of the main front triangle.

Certain specifications of the frame will dictate what/how other parts fit:
Head tube – tube at the front that the fork steerer tube fits into. Typically designated as either 1 1/8”, 1 ½” or tapered, which is a combination of smaller at the top and larger at the bottom. The dimension refers to the outer diameter of the fork steerer tube. What size your frame has will dictate what headset you need and what forks will fit.
Seat tube – tube the seatpost fits into. Internal dimension will determine what size diameter seatpost you need, usually 27.2mm, 30.9mm or 31.6mm on most modern bikes. The front derailleur will fit to this tube lower down, so the outer diameter will determine the fitting of that, unless it has a tab for a DMD (Direct Mount Derailleur) that bolts on differently.
Bottom Bracket – tube that the Bottom Bracket (bearing set that the cranks turn on) fits into. Will be either 68mm or 73mm wide and threaded, the width determines whether or not you need to fit spacers to the bottom bracket bearings to get the correct chainline (look that up!)
Rear brake fitting – if it’s a modern bike with disc mounts these will usually be I.S. (International Standard) for a 140mm disc rotor. If you want to use a larger rotor you’ll need an adaptor between the frame and the brake caliper (most of which are Post Mount)
Rear dropouts – cutouts that the rear wheel axle fits into. Most frames that you’ll be looking at will be QR (Quick Release) which is a 10mm diameter open axle that uses a quick release skewer to hold it in place. There are also various bolt-through options such as Maxle but don’t worry about that. The rear axle type will determine what axle your rear wheel needs to have.

Forks:
Can be either Rigid (no suspension) or Suspended (self-explanatory!) The steerer tube is the tube which fits into the frame and the size you require will be determined by the type and length of the head tube on the frame.
Rigid forks are usually steel or carbon fibre and modern ones will generally have I.S. disc brake mounts, so you will need an adaptor to fit Post Mount calipers.
Suspension forks are often designated by the amount of travel they have (100mm, 120mm, etc) and by the type of spring they use (coil or air). They will all generally have oil damping in them to control the compression and rebound rate of the fork. If you have a suspension frame, you would typically match the fork travel to the frame’s rear wheel travel. Suspension forks typically have a Post Mount disc caliper mounting for 160mm discs, so if you wish to use a larger rotor you’ll need an adaptor.

This is just the very basics about only the frame and forks! If you don’t even know this, then building your own bike is not for you. You will also not be able to build anything halfway decent from scratch for less than about £7-800, even if you buy a lot of parts second-hand.
Buy something second-hand for around that, ride it, and as stuff breaks learn what is it and how to fix/replace it, and what the specifications of it are.

Ask lots of questions on here, and read everything on Sheldon Brown’s website (Google it). Seriously, everything.
Ride for a year or so, learn as much as you can, and then maybe you’ll have an idea about what you need to do to build your own bike. Like not fitting parts designed for hybrids to a mountain bike

Good luck!

Phew!! Bored at work...?

PaulC7

I'm still wanting to build a bike from scratch instead of buying second hand.
I think if i know how a bike goes together then i will have a better understanding
of how to fix it if something is wrong.

So instead of buying expensive parts and and putting it together wrong and wishing i had of had some practice

ive started cheap by buying a frame...



and hopefully it wont turn out like this.. but it may be just as much fun to ride.

bobs bikes wrote:

Going to have a good look round for forks and see whats will suit me best... i guess my cheap dunlop has just a spring but wont be going for them on my new build.

cooldad

After all this you bought some scrap iron? Seriously?
For the second time I call troll.

cooldad

Same guy has some matching forks. Don't worry about the steerer size, just wrap some duct tape around it.

The Rookie

The frame is seriously rubbish, OK it is better than the Dunlop's but that really isn't saying something, is being 'distinctive' nor important than having a bike that is a pleasure to ride? That frame is over twice the weight of a reasonable hardtail (my Carrera is 1.8Kg) and more than 50% heavier than a reasonable full suspension.

Simon

chez_m356

PaulC7 wrote:

I think if i know how a bike goes together

ive started cheap by buying a frame...

you best be taking your self off to your local police station mate, you were robbed, then you can wait for the nice men in the white coats to take you for a nice ride in there van

idiotdogbrain

Paul, in all seriousness - if you're not a troll, don't you think it's a bit disrespectful to ask for advice and then completely ignore it just because it's not what you want to hear? People are trying to help you get something that you'll enjoy riding for the least amount of money and grief possible and you just go and do the exact thing they tell you not to. Bit rude really...

bails87

PaulC7 wrote:

I'm still wanting to build a bike from scratch instead of buying second hand.
I think if i know how a bike goes together then i will have a better understanding
of how to fix it if something is wrong.

So instead of buying expensive parts and and putting it together wrong and wishing i had of had some practice

ive started cheap by buying a frame...



and hopefully it wont turn out like this.. but it may be just as much fun to ride.

You CANNOT be serious!

louthepoo

I'm certain he's a WUM! Anyone with a brain cell wouldn't ask for advice then do the exact opposite!

PaulC7

Sorry guys havent meant to be rude or not listen although you think i have.

We all make mistakes and i guess mine is a big one, thought buying and building from scratch
would just be as helpful as buying a second hand one and trying to figure out how it comes apart.

Although the frame may be cheap/rubbish i will be buying decent parts to build it up.

Would be great if you could suggest frames that i should of gone for and also what adjustable suspension forks
i should be looking at,

Thanks

Chunkers1980

You've missed the point again.

rubbish frame and decent parts still equals rubbish bike. Rubbish frames often have weird or outdated fittings making frame upgrade at a later date impossible without scrapping bits.

On frames you should have bought - you need to give a budget and your required level of 'out there' - you really do not listen do you.

cooldad

I already suggested some matching forks.
You have bought an anchor.

The Northern Monkey

just read through bits of this thread.



Seriously, what the hell? I suggest that the OP go back through this thread and ignore all of his own posts.
Started off looking at a tidy Enduro and you go and buy that thing?!

The only way you're going to gain anything positive from that frame would be if you were to take it to a scrappers and weigh it in, but I wouldn't be surprised if they turned you away as well.

I've built up quite a few frames from scratch, but I did research (more than 3 pages on a forum), set out a plan and a budget and took my time.
If you've building from scratch, there is no point in going in cheaper than cheap. You're supposed to be building a whole bike that you'll be proud of and will want to ride... its not just a case of " this bike is awesome because I built it myself" - a sh!t bike is still a shi!t bike!

Building from scratch costs a whole lot more than buying off the shelf. No question. But you can tailor the bike and spec to what you want or need.

It sounds like the OP need to go back to the drawing board (or actually start at the drawing board) and set out a plan and budget.
If you're budget is way under 1k, then I wouldn't bother, epecially if you want full suspension.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

rubbish frame and decent parts still equals rubbish bike.

Amen... you can't polish a turd etc etc

supersonic

With an air shock it will be about as light as a Orange 5, and ride about the same.

Chunkers1980

Turns out you can polish a turd - they made one shine from lion's poop or summit on Myth Busters

In bicycle frame terms, they had to melt it down and start again.

mattrgee

chez_m356 wrote:

PaulC7 wrote:

I think if i know how a bike goes together

ive started cheap by buying a frame...

you best be taking your self off to your local police station mate, you were robbed, then you can wait for the nice men in the white coats to take you for a nice ride in there van

You're missing the point, it's green!

PaulC7

I did spend a fair bit of time reading through this forum but most of it seems to be technical and not easy for a novice to understand hence why i joined up in the hope hope of getting things cleared and and learning along the way.

The Northern Monkey wrote:

If you're budget is way under 1k, then I wouldn't bother, epecially if you want full suspension.

I wasnt thinking of spending anywhere near that.


An Enduro frame would be great but as it was mentioned i should start off by buying secondhand it didnt seem to me that buying what i have done as a starting point to learn how to build up was a bad idea.

Obviously once ive built my first bike and have a bit more knowledge then i will go and splash the cash and buy something better,.

cooldad

Problem is you seem incapable of listening to advice given.

PaulC7

I am capable of listening, but simply saying a rubbish frame will make a rubbish bike isnt really helpful now is it.

What would be helpful is to know how you all went about choosing parts and the thought process you went through while building and mistakes you made.

Dont forget im a novice and although i may want to do a bit of downhill it will only be on a novice level for fun not competitions and not too show off in front of others...

So what type or heavy a frame should i be looking for?
What price range of parts should i stay away from.


I am looking for advice/help not just criticism.

The Northern Monkey

what type of riding?
what is your total budget?

PaulC7

The Northern Monkey wrote:

what type of riding?
Town, bridle ways, nature reserves and some downhill

what is your total budget?
I would like to think a few hundred maybe now more than 500 at most

For a first build that is just to learn how to and understand some technical stuff is this realistic?

hobbitsharley

not really as if youve never built a bike then the tools you will need to build said bike are going to cost at least half the budget unless you take it to a LBS to have the headset pressed in , the crown race installed and the Bottom bracket installed - which sorta defeats the object, - i dont have those tools myself or access to them from a friend anymore, the rest of the tools i do have access to and more
for instance a reasonable headset press is roughly £50, a crown race installer £25, BB tool is dependant on the BB but roughly £10, then there are allen keys, spanners, cable cutters - have to do inner and outer, grease and so on - so far in part i hadnt got for my build ive spen 1/2 your budget not counting the new frame and forks which are consideraly more