Help please - Mis sold a bike:(

JimboM

Personally I think you're stuffed. Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader and ebay can't really do much if you didn't pay by Paypal. (Yes they could ban the seller but that's highly unlikely and it's not going to get your money back)

I wouldn't send the bike back to him, from the sounds of it he's none too honest and you don't want to be out of pocket for the cash and not have the bike either !

Put it down to learning a hard lesson and see if you can get it repaired

Don't want to rub salt in the wound but in future always insit on paying by Paypal as in a dispute they pretty much always side with the buyer ! If a seller refuses to accept this then either collect the goods in person or walk away from the deal

godders1

JimboM wrote:

Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader....

Eh? :?

ooermissus

Ebay sellers are expected to "provide a clear, honest, and accurate description about the item" - surely the OP would have a reasonable case in court if the item had not been accurately described.

JimboM

Godders1 wrote:

JimboM wrote:

Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader....

Eh? :?

See about half way down this page

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... e-auction/

sloppyschleckonds

Godders1 wrote:

JimboM wrote:

Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader....

Eh? :?

hUH?

ooermissus

JimboM wrote:

Godders1 wrote:

JimboM wrote:

Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader....

Eh? :?

See about half way down this page

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... e-auction/

Surely Which is confused. You can obviously take a small claims case against an individual - it happens all the time.

godders1

ooermissus wrote:

JimboM wrote:

Godders1 wrote:

JimboM wrote:

Small claims court is only applicable if the seller was a trader....

Eh? :?

See about half way down this page

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... e-auction/

Surely Which is confused. You can obviously take a small claims case against an individual - it happens all the time.

I'd just go for "wrong" rather than "confused". As you say any individual can take any other individual to court to pursue debts or seek compensation.

Ezy Rider

you dont have to be dealing with a business trader to go to small claims. many small claims actions are between two members of the general public. the caveat emptor condition most certainly has its place , but there is also reasonableness to be considered. the original poster was desperately naive in not smelling a huge stinking rat when that seller insisted on a bank transfer payment, I wouldnt have walked.......id have sprinted the other way.the small claims court will only hear the case if a dispute is received from the seller, pictorial proof of the claimed damage will need to be provided and the op would need to proove that it is reasonable for him to assert that the seller couldnt positively not have been aware of the damage. if the seller tries to drag the courier into proceedings as a 3rd party who should be liable, well that is where it gets extra messy. add into the proceedings that the judge most likely wont have the 1st notion about biking ,if the op relies on sworn expert evidence and possible court attendance, those costs are borne by the op and arent recoverable should he win or lose the case.

safeguards such as legal protection if you pay by credit card for items above £50 or paypal intervention if you make payment through them are there for a reason and should absolutely be used.

oscarbudgie

Hate to say it but I really think you are stuffed. This guy knew all long that he was selling damaged goods so to avoid a returns claim he insisted on a bank transfer not Paypal - you cannot sell on Ebay without a Paypal account these days, nor can you refuse to accept it - alarm bells should ring when you hear anyone reluctant to use PP. I think you can probably get Ebay to take action against him for this but thats about all and you won't get your money back.

RedJohn

[quote="Ezy Rider".the small claims court will only hear the case if a dispute is received from the seller, [/quote]
Yes - in other words, if you file a claim and the defender doesn't dispute it then the court will find in your favour without hearing the case

the op would need to proove that it is reasonable for him to assert that the seller couldnt positively not have been aware of the damage

Not sure what you mean TBH. Do you mean he would have to prove that the seller could reasonably be expected to have been aware of the damage?

if the seller tries to drag the courier into proceedings as a 3rd party who should be liable

Don't agree - the contract with the courier is betwen the seller and the courier. The buyer contracted with the seller for the bike, delivered. If the seller, in effect, sub-contracts the delivery to a courier and the courier damages it, then (1) the buyer claims from the seller and then, separately, (2) the seller claims from the courier.

petemadoc

Your big mistake here is paying by bank transfer

Paypal offers superb protection against this very problem. If someone demands a bank transfer/western union payment or anything else you can't claim back then just walk away. Too late now I know :roll:

Anyways I'm surprised you can't go through the normal ebay claims channels. With that crack the frame is worthless.

nochekmate

PeteMadoc wrote:

With that crack the frame is worthless.

No it's not worthless at all.

Whilst it does not solve the OPs problem, there are plenty of people offering repair services and plenty of people out there who will still buy a damaged carbon frame, knowing that they can have it repaired.

petemadoc

True true

How much do repairs like this cost?

On another note how do cracks like this usually happen? Drops, crashes or do they just appear after x amount of use.

markos1963

PeteMadoc wrote:

True true

How much do repairs like this cost?

On another note how do cracks like this usually happen? Drops, crashes or do they just appear after x amount of use.

A crack like that would cost around £60 to fix but then you have to factor in painting after that.

ronny123

Bike returned at my expense...and, he 's refusing to refund my money...
What a fine mess

Percy Vera

ronny123 wrote:

Bike returned at my expense...and, he 's refusing to refund my money...
What a fine mess

You haven't sent it back, have you? :shock:

markos1963

ronny123 wrote:

Bike returned at my expense...and, he 's refusing to refund my money...
What a fine mess

Please, please, please tell me you used some form of recorded delivery?

brucey72

If you have returned the bike on the promise of a refund then you obviously haven't listened to a single word of advice provided by any of the forum memebrs in this thread and I'm afraid you only have yourself to blame for the mess you find yourself in.

Pokerface

<Grabs popcorn and sits back to watch>

ronny123

markos1963 wrote:

ronny123 wrote:

Bike returned at my expense...and, he 's refusing to refund my money...
What a fine mess

Please, please, please tell me you used some form of recorded delivery?

I used an insured courier. Took pics and made videos of the box and bike before, during and after packing, and took a photo of the courier standing next to his van with the box. And I got a witness to watch me do it.

ronny123

brucey72 wrote:

If you have returned the bike on the promise of a refund then you obviously haven't listened to a single word of advice provided by any of the forum memebrs in this thread and I'm afraid you only have yourself to blame for the mess you find yourself in.

I think that's a bit exaggerated. And I don't blame myself, I blame the guy who's trying to swindle me.

Holyzeus

Time to name and shame?

Percy Vera

The only thing that'll help you now is some magic beans, I have some for sale if you are interested

ronny123

Percy Vera wrote:

The only thing that'll help you now is some magic beans, I have some for sale if you are interested

*unt

DF33

ebay rules are;

The item must be paid for by pay pal.
The item must be posted to the registered address of the purchaser with paypal.
The item must be signed for.

ANY deviance from the above and the pay pal system walks away from helping.

Nearly all couriers state in their small print;
For any damage claim to be accepted by the company the item must be inspected by the recipient before being signed for. (of course non of us make the delivery driver stand on the step and do this but they are the terms and conditions).

As it seems you have broken both of these stipulations I think you are up the creek.

However to send the bike back to him is pure madness on your part. I can't believe you've done that.

Ypou should have either accepted the situation and sold it on with the damage description and taken a hit on it and learned a lesson or delivered it in person with a bulky friend with you and walked him to the cash point.

In this instance either big naivety or trolling is evident.

ooermissus

DF33 wrote:

ebay rules are;

The item must be paid for by pay pal.
The item must be posted to the registered address of the purchaser with paypal.
The item must be signed for.

ANY deviance from the above and the pay pal system walks away from helping..

Really? Or did you just make these impressive sounding 'rules' up?

DF33

Err No, actually.

Unless I am mistaken and I will hold my hand up if so, pay pal state that in order to get involved in refunding payments then the item has to have been paid for through pay pal, posted (not hand delivered or collected by the seller) to the address on the pay pal account and to be signed for.

Perhaps you'd like to waste some time trawling through Pay pal and post up if not, I certainly won't.

DF33

To save you time i had a link in my bookmarks. So unless things have changed....

https://www.paypal-marketing.co.uk/safe ... OnEbay.htm

Then again I suppose I could be making that up too :roll:

EKIMIKE

DF33 wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

Really? Or did you just make these impressive sounding 'rules' up?

Err No, actually. (+ Link)

Mwahahahah, well played DF33!

Personally, and i point out i'm no expert, i think that this is most likely to be deemed a case of caveat emptor unless you go to some great lengths (and cost) to prove otherwise.

It is entirely possible that the seller thought it wasn't important and/or merely cosmetic damage. It would be harsh to assume he/she is intending to swindle you by being dishonest. This is the position the law takes unless you can prove otherwise (which is entirely feasible in theory, but at what cost?).

It doesn't seem apparent that the seller made any dishonest representations and omissions are only held to account where the is a duty of care, am i right? In this case there is no duty of care for obvious reasons.

Take it on the chin, get it repaired at your own cost and don't make the same mistake twice!

Percy Vera

EKIMIKE wrote:

.... Take it on the chin, get it repaired at your own cost and don't make the same mistake twice!

He can't, he sent it back