The big LIGHTS thread 2011-2014

supersonic

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

camerauk

supersonic wrote:

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

Ok have done this and it reads 4.07v
is this correct the light is not on!!!

supersonic

We need the current ;-). Switch to amps.

camerauk

Ok have just measured it and its 1.48 amps

supersonic

Everything seems about right. It will only be 4-500 lumens or so at that amperage, but 1.45 hours at that sort of draw suggests a good cell.

camerauk

Ok great
any idea for a helmet mount for it?

supersonic

Velcro straps. Versatile, secure.

rowlers

supersonic wrote:

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

I must be missing something here, so if you take the end cap off how do you switch the torch on?
Maybe one of the torch/light gurus on here should do a quick and dirty guide on measure these things?
I'd have a go myself if I knew lol!

rowlers

camerauk wrote:

also any idea on a good helmet mount? would it be worth the extra expense getting an Exposure helmet mount(taking it that it will fit the torch)

I've successfully used the Lezyne helmet mount with my 502:
http://goo.gl/gc3Orm
Works well, maybe a bit of old inner tube around the barrel to tighten if up.

camerauk

Cheers

Would a set of these 5000mAh batteries give a longer runtime?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-UltraFire1 ... 3f2b991e81

Ouija

camerauk wrote:

Cheers

Would a set of these 5000mAh batteries give a longer runtime?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-UltraFire1 ... 3f2b991e81

5000mAh, lol. About the highest capacity 18650 batteries you can get are the Panasonic NCR18650's at 3200mAh. Anything that claims it's higher is just lying (and probably Chinese). Stick with Japanese cells (Panasonic, Senybor, Sony etc) as they tend to be true to the capacity advertised. Anything Chinese (typically ending in "Fire") are usually blatant lies.

Ouija

rowlers wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

I must be missing something here, so if you take the end cap off how do you switch the torch on?
Maybe one of the torch/light gurus on here should do a quick and dirty guide on measure these things?
I'd have a go myself if I knew lol!

The tail cap is just a circuit breaker/switch. Connecting up the multimeter completes the circuit, hence no need for the tailcap.

diy

Remember the drivers in these torches are not that good at maintaining a constant current. A torch pulling 1.45A at 4v will probable be closer to 2A at 4.2v

See video here of measured lights - the light with the red band pulls 2.4A on a fully charged cell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Fc6-7E0-c

Not great camera work unfortunately I only had the wife's SLR to hand - should have used my go-pro.

You'll usually get better run time than you predict as the Amps tail off as the voltage drops.

camerauk

Ouija wrote:

camerauk wrote:

Cheers

Would a set of these 5000mAh batteries give a longer runtime?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-UltraFire1 ... 3f2b991e81

5000mAh, lol. About the highest capacity 18650 batteries you can get are the Panasonic NCR18650's at 3200mAh. Anything that claims it's higher is just lying (and probably Chinese). Stick with Japanese cells (Panasonic, Senybor, Sony etc) as they tend to be true to the capacity advertised. Anything Chinese (typically ending in "Fire") are usually blatant lies.

Ok thanks for the heads up
So I will stick with the batteries I have and maybe order a few of the Panasonic ones for my 24hr bike race
Would the Panasonic's give better run times??

diy

vs what?

though probably the answer is yes, because there isn't much on the market that can out perform them.

camerauk

diy wrote:

vs what?

though probably the answer is yes, because there isn't much on the market that can out perform them.

The batteries I have are just from a cheap Chinese light that had 4 18650's stuck together I just separated them, the only info on them is 20AY. I have tested one and it lasted for 1hr 45 before the light started to dim a bit.

So you think I would get better run times with the Panasonic's?

Ouija

camerauk wrote:

So you think I would get better run times with the Panasonic's?

"think" doesn't enter into it. The Panasonics are the largest capacity 18650's on the market that actually achieve stated capacity so will give a longer run time than any other type of 18650 out there. How much depends on what your comparing them against. Against some of the other 3100/3200mah Jap batteries they'll probably run only slightly longer (minutes). Against some of the cheaper Chinese batteries they may run twice as long. There's no way of telling since you don't know the capacity or the batteries you have or the amp draw of the torch.

However. Some what controversially, i'd argue that it isn't always necessary to splash out on the flagship Japanese batteries unless your a complete weight and space weenie. Not when feeding them one at a time into a torch (making up battery packs is another thing entirely). For the price of two Panasonic NCR18650b batteries (about £15) you can pick up ten Ultrafire for less than a tenner. They won't run as long but three cheap batteries will give you much the same run times as two high end ones..... you'd just have to stop and change batteries a bit more often during a long ride and carry a tad more extra weight and use up a bit more space in your back pack (or what ever you lug stuff around in).

If your rides are shorter and you don't want to lug any spare batteries around with you then going for the largest capacity single battery on the market (the Panasonic) makes more sense otherwise it can be a bit of a false economy.

diy

Hmm. I'd say thats true for a reliable source of cells, but the ebay/utrafires can be anything. If you want almost as good, then go with a Dell or lenovo etc. laptop pack, you'll be unlikely to find less than 6 2500mAh and may get 2750mAh (at at least 1A) for around £15. So you are getting 3X as many and may even get 8 or 9.

Avoid the "for Dell, lenovo etc" and go for those branded Dell, lenovo:

e.g.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?LH_BIN ... Cell&rt=nc

£1.75 for decent 2600mAh cells

To work out the capacity of each cell:
If you have watts, convert to amps : watts / volts = Ah * 1000 = mAh
then divide total volts by 3.6 (sometimes 3.7) to work out how many are in series.
divide that number by the total number of cells
devide that number by the mAh = cell mAh

e.g.

a 9 cell 10.8v 8400mAh pack (91W) gives you 10.8 / 3.6 =3, 8400 / 3 = 2800mAh per cell

Big dave 3

I got KaiDomain C8 today, not the cheapest for 16 dollars

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S021238

OMG I am impressed. Compared to my Ultrafire 501b pointing down my garden, the C8 is like night & day better.

It has good reviews which is why I bought it.

IT is a bit heavier than a 501b though. I havent tested it on my bike bracket but for the light output it might be worth putting up with extra weight.

I have also put about 6 orders in from different chinese sites & this is the 2nd order to have come. STill nothing from light malls, so I won't be getting anything from them again. My next order will be KaiDomain again.

WIll a Ultrafire with a XM-l2 chip in be as good as this KD C8 with the XM-L2? I am tempted to go for a few more C8s as they actually turn up from Kai Domain & the torches are KD own brand & impressive from what I have seen.

I would be interested to see how the KD C8 compares with UF 501b with same chip

For some reason Kai Domain only do XM-L chips in their own brand KD 501bs

camerauk

Thanks for all your help
I will stick with the cheaper batteries as I will be doing laps for the 24hr bike race and so can just put a new battery in when I come in to get some more food drink etc I will carry a spare battery with me just incase although I will have a MaxxD light on the bars so if it does run out I will still be able to see

I am also not worried about the extra weight of a few batteries when I am just out doing a night ride

bartimaeus

Big dave 3 wrote:

WIll a Ultrafire with a XM-l2 chip in be as good as this KD C8 with the XM-L2? I am tempted to go for a few more C8s as they actually turn up from Kai Domain & the torches are KD own brand & impressive from what I have seen. For some reason Kai Domain only do XM-L chips in their own brand KD 501bs

Depends on the driver really - but the XM-L2 is a great LED, and the Ultrafire 501bs I have are spot on, with around 2.4 amps on HI and 0.9 amps MED - so they are similar in brightness to my Ultrafire C8 XML-U3. I really like the C8 body for a bar light as it is robust and has a solid 'plunger' contact on the tailcap, so no issues changing modes no matter how rough the ground. Paired with a 501b on your lid it's a great combination.

Big dave 3

yeah I noticed the solid negative contact rather than a spring .

OK I will try your combo with one of my 501b on helmet. Where do people get the velcro to secure the torch to the helmet?

-Archie-

Bartimaeus wrote:

I really like the C8 body for a bar light as it is robust and has a solid 'plunger' contact on the tailcap, so no issues changing modes no matter how rough the ground.

Big dave 3 wrote:

yeah I noticed the solid negative contact rather than a spring .

I have several torches with that design: in fact it's worse than simple spring. The "solid contact" protruding from the tail cover is actually a cap for the same spring inside, and it just adds parasitic resistance to the circuit. Removal of that bronze plunger improves the stability of light's operation and increases the brightness in high mode: try it yourself. The spring may require some expanding after that modding, though...

bartimaeus

-Archie- wrote:

I have several torches with that design: in fact it's worse than simple spring. The "solid contact" protruding from the tail cover is actually a cap for the same spring inside, and it just adds parasitic resistance to the circuit. Removal of that bronze plunger improves the stability of light's operation and increases the brightness in high mode: try it yourself. The spring may require some expanding after that modding, though...

That's very interesting... so I'll get better output, but possibly at the cost of decreased 'vibration resistance'?

I've never needed to use any form of cell spacer in my C8, but the 501bs need 2x2.5mm spacers as well as some tape to stop the cells moving and changing modes.

Ouija

Bartimaeus wrote:

I've never needed to use any form of cell spacer in my C8, but the 501bs need 2x2.5mm spacers as well as some tape to stop the cells moving and changing modes.

Depends on weather your using longer protected batteries and which variation of the casing is being used. The 501/502 torches have had minor alterations in length and internal configuration over the years.

rowlers

Ouija wrote:

rowlers wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

I must be missing something here, so if you take the end cap off how do you switch the torch on?
Maybe one of the torch/light gurus on here should do a quick and dirty guide on measure these things?
I'd have a go myself if I knew lol!

The tail cap is just a circuit breaker/switch. Connecting up the multimeter completes the circuit, hence no need for the tailcap.

Aha, so will the torch be on HIGH/MED or LOW...?

Ouija

rowlers wrote:

Ouija wrote:

rowlers wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Yep! Take end cap off, and put one probe on the end of the battery, the other on the torch casing ie threads.

I must be missing something here, so if you take the end cap off how do you switch the torch on?
Maybe one of the torch/light gurus on here should do a quick and dirty guide on measure these things?
I'd have a go myself if I knew lol!

The tail cap is just a circuit breaker/switch. Connecting up the multimeter completes the circuit, hence no need for the tailcap.

Aha, so will the torch be on HIGH/MED or LOW...?

That's not determined by the tail cap but the driver at the front of the torch. The tailcap just switches the circuit on and off permanently (if you feel it click), or momentarily if you only tap it (no click). Small momentary breaks in power are intepreted by the driver as an instruction to change modes, which it then does when the power comes back on. This is also the same reason these torches have a reputation of changing modes when going over big bumps (the battery jiggles about too much inside the case, leading to a momentary loss of power, which the driver interprets as a mode change instruction, just as if you'd broken the circuit momentarily by tapping the tail switch). So when you connect up your multimeter the light will come on in whatever mode you last left it in. To change modes simply take one of the probes off the battery for a second and then reapply it again to get the mode change. Watch DIY's video above and you'll see him doing just that to switch modes.

rowlers

Ouija wrote:

That's not determined by the tail cap but the driver at the front of the torch. The tailcap just switches the circuit on and off permanently (if you feel it click), or momentarily if you only tap it (no click). Small momentary breaks in power are intepreted by the driver as an instruction to change modes, which it then does when the power comes back on. This is also the same reason these torches have a reputation of changing modes when going over big bumps (the battery jiggles about too much inside the case, leading to a momentary loss of power, which the driver interprets as a mode change instruction, just as if you'd broken the circuit momentarily by tapping the tail switch). So when you connect up your multimeter the light will come on in whatever mode you last left it in. To change modes simply take one of the probes off the battery for a second and then reapply it again to get the mode change. Watch DIY's video above and you'll see him doing just that to switch modes.

Thats fabulous, great reply very informative. Lots to learn about this torch business! Can the same be applied to "bike lights" i.e. separate light units and battery packs?

-Archie-

Bartimaeus wrote:

That's very interesting... so I'll get better output,

Most likely, yes.

but possibly at the cost of decreased 'vibration resistance'?

It depends from particular light's design. If the spring in tailcap is weak (as often found in the 50x-like torches), positive terminal on the driver does not have spring at all, and diameter of tube allows the cell to wobble - probably some additional modding will be necessary...

diy

IME the best option is to find a way for the cell to be held snugly in a static position in the tube without needing the springs to hold the cell. Then the springs are just about making contact. I've never needed to pad the cells with washers or magnets, just use insulation tape to wrap the cell to make it fat to the point it jams in the tube. You can always get the cell out by unscrewing both ends and pushing it through.

On the Kaidomain source - they have always tended to run 3A drivers in their units. DX tends to be around the 1.8A mark and Light malls in between. A 3A XM-L is going to look impressive against a XM-L2 driven at 1.8A

Quick question:

Anyone got any experience of this:
http://www.lightmalls.com/uniquefire-uf ... 50-battery

Obviously run time is going to be pretty poor full. But its £26 I was wondering what low mode was going to be like.