How many of you ride without a helmet?

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  • Hoopdriver
    Hoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    clanton wrote:
    Ever notice how the vast majority of those who DON'T wear helmets are older riders? Strange isn't it? From the pro helmet arguments surely they'd all be dead?

    Ah...actually I never noticed that at all - quite the opposite in fact. Most of the helmet-less riders I see are adolescents or early twenties.

    I bet they ride on pavements and jump red lights as well.

    Some and some (sigh)
    http://www.My-Bicycle-and-I.com
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    I was hit on the head by a falling horse-chestnut this morning while training. Scared the shit out of me!! #helmetsarenotjustforcrashes
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • TanukiRider
    TanukiRider Posts: 444
    Can someone explain to me how a "potter" or "amble" is any less dangerous than a "fast club ride" or "TT"? Im just finding it a tad difficult to work out how one of these is any less dangerous than the others.......

    Every time you get on your bike, you put yourself at extra risk, whether you are getting on a bike for the first time, or a veteran racer of 30+ years. You cannot account for every tool out there in a car, and for every good driver, there are at least 10 tools. The family car in their hands is a very lethal weapon.

    Similarly, some cyclists are the same. I have been knocked off by a kid coming flying out of a side street, and I was on the cycle path. He was on the pavement, and hit me full on on his crappy bmx. I came down pretty hard and hit my head. Glad I had a helmet? You bet I was.

    Even pedestrians can pose a danger, and then theres your bike. The chain may break and cause you to go over the bars for instance.......

    The variables increase greatly when on any wheeled object, and the danger to your own life with them. Is the helmet guaranteed to save your life? No. Is it worth the risk to not wear it? In my opinion, no.

    What possible reason could there be to not wear something that MAY save your life every time you get on your bike? If it reduces the risk by just 1%, I dont care how much of a tit I look, I'll take that extra 1% thanks.
    Scott Addict R3
    Boardman CX 2014
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    TanukiRider wrote:
    Can someone explain to me how a "potter" or "amble" is any less dangerous than a "fast club ride" or "TT"? Im just finding it a tad difficult to work out how one of these is any less dangerous than the others.......

    Every time you get on your bike, you put yourself at extra risk, whether you are getting on a bike for the first time, or a veteran racer of 30+ years. You cannot account for every tool out there in a car, and for every good driver, there are at least 10 tools. The family car in their hands is a very lethal weapon.

    Similarly, some cyclists are the same. I have been knocked off by a kid coming flying out of a side street, and I was on the cycle path. He was on the pavement, and hit me full on on his crappy bmx. I came down pretty hard and hit my head. Glad I had a helmet? You bet I was.

    Even pedestrians can pose a danger, and then theres your bike. The chain may break and cause you to go over the bars for instance.......

    The variables increase greatly when on any wheeled object, and the danger to your own life with them. Is the helmet guaranteed to save your life? No. Is it worth the risk to not wear it? In my opinion, no.

    What possible reason could there be to not wear something that MAY save your life every time you get on your bike? If it reduces the risk by just 1%, I dont care how much of a tit I look, I'll take that extra 1% thanks.
    Zzzzzz. Cos I live in the middle of nowhere; I get on the bike; might see a dozen cars in the 20 miles on the way to work. None of them ever come close to scaring me, and f one does hit me at 60 in a country lane the helmet isn't going to make a jot of difference. I don't go round corners flat out but I do push it a bit on the straights. The only time my chain broke I was aware that it was starting to feel odd and when I stopped & checked it was clearly about to give way. Evry time I get on my bike I do not feel I'm putting myself in any great risk or danger; I might come off (have done a few times over the years) but I've never suffered a head injury through falling off. I don't see many other cyclists en route but the ones I do have never come close to having me off. Peds don't exist on my route(s). Sorry.

    You may well believe that it's such a risk that you want to wear a helmet even if it improves your chances by 1%. Fine - please do. Please stop haranguing those of us who are quite comfortable with the occasional tumble (not had one since about 2005 though) and who do not see cycling as 'risky'.

    Gawd what is it with you lot. Wear a fu c king hat if you want to. You look great, you're safe, cool, interesting, you're better people than I can ever hope to be probably. I really really don't mind if you wear one. Why is everyone on here so determined to impose their own risk perception / environmental variables / individual circumstances onto those of us who don't share that view. I said it earlier - you don't know me, you'll never meet me. Why are you all so bothered about me wearing a helmet or not? Live your own life. I'm quite happy living mine within my parameters. It's worked for half a century so far.
  • DesB3rd
    DesB3rd Posts: 285
    My work hard hat is relief map of scratch & dings, some fairly deep, yet on no-PPE domestic building sites (very similar environment to work btw) I’ve never even perceived a near miss head injury. At first I tended to think “thank god for the hat” when I clanged it but now appreciate that the cause & effect is somewhat more nuanced.

    Not to say that cycling is the same (clearly it’s not,) though it does lead me to expect that viewing a damaged helmet & concluding that it’s absence would have equalled a similarly damaged head (which many cyclists & the medical profession are keen on) is an oversimplification.

    My instinct is to assume the lid does offer some protection & my rides are well trafficked, so I almost always wear the lid and I don’t notice it; that is until I ride without, an experience which is a pleasant revelation! :)
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Ironically, the last time I nearly had a nasty crash was when an elderly couple pulled up beside me in their car screaming at me for not wearing a helmet. Surprised the hell out of me. In a way I almost wished I had crashed so that I could have noted their number and reported them for THEIR dangerous behaviour.
  • TanukiRider
    TanukiRider Posts: 444
    CiB wrote:
    TanukiRider wrote:
    Can someone explain to me how a "potter" or "amble" is any less dangerous than a "fast club ride" or "TT"?

    Zzzzzz. Cos I live in the middle of nowhere; I get on the bike; might see a dozen cars in the 20 miles on the way to work. None of them ever come close to scaring me, and f one does hit me at 60 in a country lane the helmet isn't going to make a jot of difference. I don't go round corners flat out but I do push it a bit on the straights. The only time my chain broke I was aware that it was starting to feel odd and when I stopped & checked it was clearly about to give way. Evry time I get on my bike I do not feel I'm putting myself in any great risk or danger; I might come off (have done a few times over the years) but I've never suffered a head injury through falling off. I don't see many other cyclists en route but the ones I do have never come close to having me off. Peds don't exist on my route(s). Sorry.

    You may well believe that it's such a risk that you want to wear a helmet even if it improves your chances by 1%. Fine - please do. Please stop haranguing those of us who are quite comfortable with the occasional tumble (not had one since about 2005 though) and who do not see cycling as 'risky'.

    Gawd what is it with you lot. Wear a fu c king hat if you want to. You look great, you're safe, cool, interesting, you're better people than I can ever hope to be probably. I really really don't mind if you wear one. Why is everyone on here so determined to impose their own risk perception / environmental variables / individual circumstances onto those of us who don't share that view. I said it earlier - you don't know me, you'll never meet me. Why are you all so bothered about me wearing a helmet or not? Live your own life. I'm quite happy living mine within my parameters. It's worked for half a century so far.

    Not haranguing, and Im not stupid or naive enough to try and force my opinions on anyone. I simply asked a question, to which, at least in part, you have answered.

    Best of luck to you not wearing a helmet sir, I shall continue to wear mine, and hopefully avoid swearing at folk whilst doing so. I have been known to let fly at folk who try to run me off the road once in a while though........
    Scott Addict R3
    Boardman CX 2014
  • bails1310
    bails1310 Posts: 361
    My father ended up in a nuerological rehabilitation centre some years ago and I will never forget the guy in his ward who came off a MTB with no head gear.

    Trust me, before seeing him I may have been on both sides of the fence re wearing a helmet. I have never cycled without one since.

    I would not wish how he ended up with little chance if improvement, on anyone.
    Kuota Kharma Race [Dry/Sunny]
    Raleigh Airlite 100 [Wet/Horrible]
  • tx14
    tx14 Posts: 244
    anecdotes, anecdotes everywhere!
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    tx14 wrote:
    anecdotes, anecdotes everywhere!

    Collect enough of them and you have statistics :wink:

    Seriously, though, there's a deafening silence when it comes to the anecdotes of the downside of helmet use. Anecdotes are just experiences - and experiences are how we learn. There's never going to be hard & fast evidence if that's what anybody is waiting for.

    And, as much as there's anecdotes from the "Pro" lobby of "It saved my head" there's anecdotes from the "Anti" lobby saying "I've ridden 50 years and never needed one" (an argument that is every bit as weak if not weaker - I've never needed a seatbelt, smoke alarm, house insurance etc in 47 years - proves they're a waste of time :roll: )

    Equally - I don't see too many people haranguing anybody about wearing a helmet. I do see people saying they are a waste of time and others saying they're not. We're going to prove nothing though. As usual.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    meanredspider wrote:
    "I've ridden 50 years and never needed one" (an argument that is every bit as weak if not weaker - I've never needed a seatbelt, smoke alarm, house insurance etc in 47 years - proves they're a waste of time :roll: )
    But that's the very point. A car crash, a house fire - these probably will do you some serious damage, quite likely even kill you. That's what car crashes & house fires tend to do.

    After nearly 50 years of coming off bikes, some of them quite spectacular events, none of them have caused me damage that would have been mitigated by a helmet, nor has anyone I've known ever been damaged in a bike accident, ergo in my rural idyll where traffic, peds etc aren't an issue I'm relaxed about not bothering with a helmet. In other circumstances I'll happily don a helmet where my risk perception nudges helmet wearing over some arbitrary threshold that I've made up all by myself and maybe doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny. Guess what? Tough. I don't care, and I care even less when a load of metropolitan types who have an anxiety about what complete strangers do in their own lives start throwing around accusations of stupidity, poor parenting skills and of being worthless to the gene pool. Human nature - esp mine - doesn't respond well to that sort of nonsense.

    All of these anecdotes about how a helmet definitely saved someone I once saw / knew / was married to are meaningless to me unless and until we start clamouring for PPE to be worn in every activity that carries some nominal risk, because that's what cycling is to me - a nominal risk that I'm more than happy to accept without the need for PPE.

    I just don't accept that cycling in my world is a risky activity, and certainly not one that warrants a crash hat. YMMV, and for that you're welcome to take a more safety concious approach. Don't trouble yourself with my considered but different views to yours.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    CiB wrote:
    lots and lots of impassioned stuff... then "I don't care".... then lots more impassioned stuff
    A bit strange to keep on coming on an internet forum telling us all how terrible it is for people to express their opinions on an internet forum?
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    bompington wrote:
    CiB wrote:
    lots and lots of impassioned stuff... then "I don't care".... then lots more impassioned stuff
    A bit strange to keep on coming on an internet forum telling us all how terrible it is for people to express their opinions on an internet forum?
    Because underlying all this is my firmly held view that one day some politician wanting to make a name for himself will introduce a PMB making helmets mandatory, and there'll be little evidence on places like this of anyone having an opposing view that says 'Hold on. Cycling isn't dangerous'; instead helmet debates are full of anecdotes and hyperbole of how important it is to wear a helmet. I'm trying to make it clear that for a lot of us cycling isn't in the slightest bit dangerous, it doesn't warrant PPE and if it's all the same to you lot I'd rather it stayed that way.

    Anyone coming new to cycling - hey, in a forum called Road Beginners - could be forgiven for thinking that riding a bike is just so dangerous that it's probably not worth it. I beg to differ, and wish to provide the opposing viewpoint to the mainstream that it is safe in most situations; maybe I'm doing it wrong but like I said before, you're probably better cleverer smarter cooler people than me. Maybe. Hey-ho.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    CiB wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    "I've ridden 50 years and never needed one" (an argument that is every bit as weak if not weaker - I've never needed a seatbelt, smoke alarm, house insurance etc in 47 years - proves they're a waste of time :roll: )
    But that's the very point. A car crash, a house fire - these probably will do you some serious damage, quite likely even kill you. That's what car crashes & house fires tend to do.

    .

    My point, that you missed, is this - just because it's never happened that you've smacked your head on the tarmac, doesn't mean it won't. Using your logic, none of the things I've listed would make sense. I'm talking about the likelihood side rather than the severity. Just as I've had car accidents for which a seatbelt hasn't helped me, you've had bike accidents for which a no lid has had no consequence. Lucky you. I'm not sure what point you are making.

    It's entirely up to you where you draw the boundary. I consider that my very rural commute throws up additional risks. Whilst the likelihood of me coming off (especially due to third party actions) might be less (though potholes, mud on the road & untreated ice are potentially more likely), I consider that the very lack of outside aid in the event of an accident to potentially increase the risk. I could lie there quite a while before I was spotted.

    I'm not going to preach to you about the use of a lid - it's entirely your choice. But equally don't berate the use of lids
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    edited October 2011
    Hoopdriver wrote:
    clanton wrote:
    Ever notice how the vast majority of those who DON'T wear helmets are older riders? Strange isn't it? From the pro helmet arguments surely they'd all be dead?

    Ah...actually I never noticed that at all - quite the opposite in fact. Most of the helmet-less riders I see are adolescents or early twenties.

    ... that's a bit like saying that...

    If smoking was bad for you and seriously damages your health, how come we still see lots of old folk smoking! Surely they would all be dead?

    There are also more cars on the road than say 10 years ago, which must mean the risk as a cyclist has increased. Reading how cyclists are treated by other motorists in say France, must also mean that you cannot easily compare the risks of cycling with other countries.
    Simon
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    MRS - nowhere have I berated the use of lids. I've consistently said wear one if you like, equally I'll wear one myself where appropriate. Please don't make things up to enhance your viewpoint.

    And you still seem unable to understand the statement that cycling is much less risky than people make it out to be; it's nominal risk, along with mending the shed roof, walking under ladders, taking a shower, walking to school in snow. You'll more than likely get away with it and if it does go pear-shaped the likelihood of it ending in tears is v low. That's my position.

    Enough.
  • cookdn
    cookdn Posts: 410
    To me the bottom line is this:
      wear helmet = more safe don't wear helmet = less safe
    Equally:
      wear helmet = less comfortable don't wear helmet = more comfortable
    Also:
      wear helmet = head warmer don't wear helmet = head cooler
    However these are generalisations and can be nothing more. Everybody's individual assessment of the benefits to them of wearing a helmet are going to be different, hence why you have people that always wear helmets, people that never wear helmets and those that wear helmets some of the time. Therefore it is ok to always wear a helmet for MTB riding because there are too many trees to crash into and berms to overshoot, wear a helmet for road riding in the winter because the roads can be more slippery and it helps keep your head warm but not in the summer because it is too damn hot.

    In answer to the OP I wear a helmet all the time because I feel underdressed and more vulnerable without it; personal experience has validated this and comfort has never been an issue. However many people chose not to wear one for a number of valid reasons. At the end of the day the choice is yours.

    Best regards.
    Boardman CX Team
  • T.C.
    T.C. Posts: 495
    i agree with everything CIB says . He didn't berate the use of helmets once.
  • bobtbuilder
    bobtbuilder Posts: 1,537
    I don't wear a helmet as I don't find them comfortable and find the straps annoying.

    +1 never wearing one again unless legally obliged to. Too uncomfortable and restrictive.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    CiB wrote:
    MRS - nowhere have I berated the use of lids. I've consistently said wear one if you like, equally I'll wear one myself where appropriate. Please don't make things up to enhance your viewpoint.

    And you still seem unable to understand the statement that cycling is much less risky than people make it out to be; it's nominal risk, along with mending the shed roof, walking under ladders, taking a shower, walking to school in snow. You'll more than likely get away with it and if it does go pear-shaped the likelihood of it ending in tears is v low. That's my position.

    Enough.

    This is the statement I'm refering to
    That's a bigger concern than some arbitrary risk attached to pootling along a cycle path at walking pace without a lump of TV packaging strapped to their heads.

    It's not exactly supportive of helmets & helmet use, is it?

    But, you're right - enough.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • ademort
    ademort Posts: 1,924
    Ge
    nerally i do not wear a helmet. However when i enter events i do have to wear a helmet and more recently my 14 year old Son started cycling so when cycling with him both he and i wear a helmet. I just don,t enjoy wearing helmets at all
    Ademort
    ademort
    Chinarello, record and Mavic Cosmic Sl
    Gazelle Vuelta , veloce
    Giant Defy 4
    Mirage Columbus SL
    Batavus Ventura
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    bobtbuilder wrote:
    I don't wear a helmet as I don't find them comfortable and find the straps annoying.

    +1 never wearing one again unless legally obliged to. Too uncomfortable and restrictive.

    That's probably why I find it odd with people not wearing one.

    As I have always worn one for the last 25 years, I don't even notice that I'm really wearing one - so I don't see the negatives.
    Simon
  • 13dsb
    13dsb Posts: 21
    Always wear one.

    I've seen some nasty injuries as a results of not wearing one and it hits home.

    Always wonder what goes on in peoples heads when I see them cycling on dual carraigways with no helmet.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    don't wear a helmet as I don't find them comfortable and find the straps annoying

    I wear a helmet as I find having my head splattered across the road annoying.
    Just saying. I'm glad we all still have a choice and I'd defend your right but there's enough evidence to say it's probably worth a bit of inconvenience.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • merak
    merak Posts: 323
    13dsb wrote:
    Always wear one.

    I've seen some nasty injuries as a results of not wearing one and it hits home.

    Always wonder what goes on in peoples heads when I see them cycling on dual carraigways with no helmet.
    "I'm enjoying my ride and I don't actually see under what circumstances a helmet is going to benefit me on this dual carriageway"?
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    meanredspider wrote:
    merak wrote:
    The only evidence of any value in this debate is based on statistical epidemiology - ie, whether the survival rate or the incidence of serious head injury of those wearing helmets per mile or per accident exceeds that of those not wearing helmets. And as far as I know, the evidence provided by such statistical studies is inconclusive - in other words the benefit of wearing a helmet is, in reality, either marginal or non-existent. Everything else, including anecdote and the opinions of doctors, nurses and chiropractors is insignificant.

    But all of this is cack too. There's no reliable way to collect the evidence. How many people on here who have the anecdotal evidence of "I fell off and my helmet split in two" have reported this?

    You mean apart from on every helmet thread in history... :wink:

    They don't need to report it. Their absence from hospital &/or being recorded by the Police as a KSI will show up in the statistics.

    So now helmet use is endemic there should be a significant reduction in KSI from head injuries, but that isn't being shown in the statistics.

    Why is that?
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    tarquin_foxglove wrote:

    They don't need to report it. Their absence from hospital &/or being recorded by the Police as a KSI will show up in the statistics.

    So now helmet use is endemic there should be a significant reduction in KSI from head injuries, but that isn't being shown in the statistics.

    Why is that?

    Well - look at it this way. According to the poll on here (which matches my casual observation) is that 80%+ of riders wear helmets. That's a huge proportion. Now if those guys aren't recording accidents for which there is no head injury (potentially as a result of wearing a lid) we have no idea of the underlying accident rate (in contrast to cars). That's a huge piece of missing data. It might explain everything. If there are loads of inexperienced cyclists falling off and banging their heads but loads of them aren't hurt because they have a helmet on, we'll never see it in the statistics. There's just not the quality of data that we need to draw proper conclusions. Cars are so different because nearly every accident is recorded through insurance companies and many through the police. There's access to the age, experience, history, risk profile etc of the drivers involved. We would need far better data to draw proper conclusions
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • coursemyhorse
    coursemyhorse Posts: 192
    I go riding in my local forest with some pretty good and dangerous trails. I see about 1 in 20 people without a helmet. To be honest it'smostly the people around the drit jumping area that don't wear them, which is the most likely place to get hurt there! I find that a strange decission. I have had offs where a helmet has massively benefited. I'll always be in the same camp and that's that not wearing a helmet is actually selfish. Selfish to anyone in your life that cares about you. Why would you not wear one? Comfort is not an answer.

    I have ridden motorcycles and wore leathers every day even in blistering heat - that's uncomfortable. Everyone says it will never happen to me, just popping to the shops only gonna do 40mph etc etc, and then one day...whack. When I came off my motorcycle at 70mph I slid on tarmac for a long time. With no leathers or helmet I wouldn't be alive.

    I think a normal helmet is the minimum you should do for MTBing. I have considered full face ones only to be ridiculed by mates as "OTT" and "you pro now then?". They can laugh all they want. I'd prefer to keep my teeth and face looking normal when I crash. :)
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    coursemyhorse wrote:

    I think a normal helmet is the minimum you should do for MTBing.

    Jesus wept
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • gmacz
    gmacz Posts: 343
    I wear a baseball cap and have never had a helmet.
    Wooly hat in winter to keep ears warm.
    Never ever thought of wearing one, never been asked to wear one and never been told off for not wearing one.
    Anyone under 16 must wear a helmet with me or they do not join me.
    I wear helmet and full leathers on a motorbike always.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7qtyrtq9M

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