Do SOME cyclists bring trouble upon themselves

Stevo_666

The last 2 posts sum it up quite well for me. Never had any real trouble on the commute, I just try to stay away from it, for the most part not losing my rag and using a bit of common sense. I'm not the most experienced commuter in the world and I have got a bit of a temper, so it can't be that difficult.

shm_uk

It seems to be the self-righteous apologists who attract trouble.

Normal people just get along fine.

spen666

I am intrigued that some people seem unableto see that some cyclists may not behave in the best way.

There seems to be some sort of blindness to the fact thatcyclists like anyone else can do things in less than appropriate ways

bails87

shm_uk wrote:

It seems to be the self-righteous apologists who attract trouble.

What's a self righteous apologist?

What are they self righteous about? And what are they apologising about?

gtvlusso

In direct answer to Spens initial question:

Yes, some cyclists bring it trouble upon themselves.

As to why, well, I have no real idea; but I do have some theories:

1, Not a confident person on the road with any form of transport

2, poor athletic ability i.e. balance/power

3, too busy worrying about being seen and 'safe', rather then worrying about riding attentatively

4, too aggressive and simply a wanker that think they own the road

5, Completely self absorbed and uninterested in anything but themselves

UndercoverElephant

bails87 wrote:

shm_uk wrote:

It seems to be the self-righteous apologists who attract trouble.

What's a self righteous apologist?

What are they self righteous about? And what are they apologising about?

You see now, I also thought it would be an oxymoron, but it's actually quite right. An apologist is "a person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution".

bails87

UndercoverElephant wrote:

bails87 wrote:

shm_uk wrote:

It seems to be the self-righteous apologists who attract trouble.

What's a self righteous apologist?

What are they self righteous about? And what are they apologising about?

You see now, I also thought it would be an oxymoron, but it's actually quite right. An apologist is "a person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution".

Whether the grammar's right or wrong, I still don't know what they're being apologists for? For self righteousness?

UndercoverElephant

bails87 wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

bails87 wrote:

shm_uk wrote:

It seems to be the self-righteous apologists who attract trouble.

What's a self righteous apologist?

What are they self righteous about? And what are they apologising about?

You see now, I also thought it would be an oxymoron, but it's actually quite right. An apologist is "a person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution".

Whether the grammar's right or wrong, I still don't know what they're being apologists for? For self righteousness?

That's the point and apologist isn't someone who apologises. They're more someone on a soapbox who'll argue with people as they believe they're right about something.

bails87

UndercoverElephant wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Whether the grammar's right or wrong, I still don't know what they're being apologists for? For self righteousness?

That's the point and apologist isn't someone who apologises. They're more someone on a soapbox who'll argue with people as they believe they're right about something.

Ah well, nevermind. I suppose the whole thing depends what we mean by 'trouble'. Going under a bus or getting into an argument?

I think GTVLusso is along the right lines. Some people are just tw/\ts. Some don't realise they're doing it. Some don't care, and some genuinely don't know.

The riders I see round here doing stuff wrong would almost all fall into the 'don't know' category. I've seen a few jump red lights, which they must know mean stop, but other than that it's squeezing up the inside of stuff, or not taking primary when they (IMO) should, not shoulder checking enough, going right at a RAB from the far left of the lane. Those things will get you into 'going under a bus' trouble.

I genuinely believe that riding assertively e.g. taking the lane when appropriate, leads to the 'getting in an argument' type of trouble. Not all the time, obviously, but when I've been shouted at for drivers it's been for 'being in their way' round a RAB or when turning right. Because drivers just see you as being in the way. So I avoid one type of trouble, but put myself in greater danger of an ignorant drivers wrath. Other cyclists might stay out of the way, so they won't get shouted at but they might get squashed. Or maybe they stay out the way, and never over/undertake any vehicles and dismount for all juncitons so they're safe on both counts, but it takes them much longer to get anywhere.

And like I said, some people are just tw/\ts.

notsoblue

UndercoverElephant wrote:

That's the point and apologist isn't someone who apologises. They're more someone on a soapbox who'll argue with people as they believe they're right about something.

"A person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial."

Still not sure from the context who is being self-righteous about what.

cje

I like to think I ride assertively and I've only been shouted at once. I've also had the odd case of a driver revving behind me to signal his / her displeasure with me being in the road. Even so, I just ignore it, and within a few seconds it's all forgotten. Whereas some cyclists would rant & rave, take the reg plate, stick a video of the incident on youtube, get into arguments with trolls commenting beneath....etc I just can't be arsed with letting a minor irritation eat me up like that, even though I wasn't in the wrong.

ooermissus

I agree that many cyclists have become very uppity.

Specialized Needs

spen666 wrote:

I am intrigued that some people seem unable to see that some cyclists may not behave in the best way.

I see nothing wrong with accepting that some cyclists do not behave in the best way - I'm even prepared to accept that this may include me at times. However, are cyclists (however that subjective term is defined) any different from the wider population in this?

spen666 wrote:

There seems to be some sort of blindness to the fact thatcyclists like anyone else can do things in less than appropriate ways

I can see that singling out a particular group, particularly in a forum aimed at such a group, might meet with a certain amount of defensiveness.

By some verbal accounts I have heard (usually when I tell people that I cycle commute), there are motor vehicle drivers and pedestrians who appear to have repeated problems with other road users. Do some of them bring that trouble on themselves? I would claim: undoubtably, yes.

And this gets us where? A conclusion that human beings can be fallible, and not recognise it in themselves. Is that an earth-shattering revelation?

I suspect that some cyclists' arrogance (and there is some, without argument) is no different from what I would hear from some drivers were they not behind soundproofing glass/metal/fibreglass. Certainly some drivers' behaviour I have seen suggests a certain arrogance beyond simple lack of consideration.

squired

I think an important component with regards to trouble is the speed people cycle at. From my experience people who "race" during their commute (i.e. riding hard and fast) will automatically have more tricky situations to deal with, particularly if their commute has lots of traffic. Cars don't judge their speed as well as slower cyclists. For example, the classic left hook. A car driver will overtake a cyclist 10m before a left turn and think they are fine. The cyclist who is hammering along is more likely to then have to hit the brakes than the one who is cruising at a slower speed.

notsoblue

ooermissus wrote:

I agree that many cyclists have become very uppity.

This seems to be the general consensus. So is flipping someone the finger or shaking your head after they consciously drove in a way that was dangerous considered "uppity"? What about calmly asking someone why they leant on the horn when you were in primary ahead of them approaching a red light? Is that "uppity"?

Stevo_666

notsoblue wrote:

"Do some cyclists bring it upon themselves"....jesus, just that question alone is insulting enough.

I do know that some people got a bit uppity just about the question being asked

notsoblue

Stevo 666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

"Do some cyclists bring it upon themselves"....jesus, just that question alone is insulting enough.

I do know that some people got a bit uppity just about the question being asked

Yeah, well I was reading between the lines. Perhaps I'm too quick to take offence. But I still think you were implying some kind of strict liability for cyclists when it comes to any conflict with cars. And it seems that the majority of the posts in this thread seem to agree with you.

Edit: I found it insulting because its a similar sentiment to those who ask whether or not a person killed in a cycle accident was wearing a helmet, or who assume they simply had rubbish bike handling skills and that it was somehow their fault.

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

I agree that many cyclists have become very uppity.

This seems to be the general consensus. ...quote]

The same iwas probably said about the actions of the LGBT over the last 20 years as they "fought" to be accepted into mainstream society.

Is it that there are more people "coming out" as cyclists and being seen to be visible and hence there are more inter reactions with cyclists these days or is it simply a reflection that people in society are becoming more uppity

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

I agree that many cyclists have become very uppity.

This seems to be the general consensus. ...quote]

The same iwas probably said about the actions of the LGBT over the last 20 years as they "fought" to be accepted into mainstream society.

Is it that there are more people "coming out" as cyclists and being seen to be visible and hence there are more inter reactions with cyclists these days or is it simply a reflection that people in society are becoming more uppity

gtvlusso

To be fair - I see more poor cycling than poor driving daily.....

Red light abuse - blatent abuse

riding on pavements

switching between pavement and road

not anticipating traffic movements ahed (i.e. going up the left side of a vehicle that is indicating left turn)

Using pedestrain crossings

Not shoulder checking when manouvering

Not shoulder checking when joining the main road

the list is endless......so, as a cyclist and a car driver (very rarely), I have to say that I see far more idiocy on bicycles than I see on any other form of ransport....and I love cycling!

Rich158

I couldn't agree more GTVLusso. I was talking about this post with my son who is about to start commuting to work with me, last night. God knows how many cars pass me without incident in the 1 1/2 hours I'm on the road, they largely go unnoticed. What I do notice is driving/behaviour that is outside the norm. Bad driving always attracts my attention and I always remember the half or dozen or so instances of bad driving rather than the hundreds of vehicles that have passed me without incident. I think of myself as being a generally calm, laid back character and tbh I may have a little rant at the time but soon forget about it, after all we all make mistakes and life is too short get get overly wound up by them. I have however met a number of people who I can only describe as being overly 'arsey', some of whom are cyclists, who let the smallest thing wind them up to the point they are about to explode. It's my guess that given a helmet cam most of these people record incidents that most of us would pass of without a second thought and blow it up out of all proportion. It's not that they attract more trouble, just that they see more trouble in the world arround them. I can only guess that they must spend their whole life angry and get little enjoyment from life.

At the end of the day life's too short to get wound up by every little misdemeanor you see, just chill and enjoy riding your bike

cje

spen666 wrote:

Is it that there are more people "coming out" as cyclists and being seen to be visible and hence there are more inter reactions with cyclists these days or is it simply a reflection that people in society are becoming more uppity

I think the LGBT analogy is a bit far-fetched, but I do agree that society as a whole could do with being less aggressive and less intolerant. 50 years ago you wouldn't have punched someone at a football match for supporting the other team, nor would you have d-locked someone for making a mistake on the road. You'd have probably said 'Steady on old chap, your nearly had me orf...what?'

MonkeyMonster

in answer to the question - yes.

stuj15

gtvlusso wrote:

To be fair - I see more poor cycling than poor driving daily.....

Red light abuse - blatent abuse

riding on pavements

switching between pavement and road

not anticipating traffic movements ahed (i.e. going up the left side of a vehicle that is indicating left turn)

Using pedestrain crossings

Not shoulder checking when manouvering

Not shoulder checking when joining the main road

So you saw the same tw*t as me this morning doing all that GTV??

He carried on regardless, even after I blew my top and told him what I thought of him.

Rich158 wrote:

I have however met a number of people who I can only describe as being overly 'arsey', some of whom are cyclists, who let the smallest thing wind them up to the point they are about to explode.

:oops:

To be fair, he was pissing everyone off who were waiting patiently in the ASLs.

sfichele

At the end of the day life's too short to get wound up by every little misdemeanor you see, just chill and enjoy riding your bike

Good advice!
However, I think I'm one of those cyclists that lets every minor incident get under his skin.
I think the problem with riding a bike is you get all worked up physically and unfortunately the adrenaline can make you very defence and irate.

keyser__soze

Some hotels should bring trouble upon themselves by commissioning youtube videos of totally irresponsible riding (through red lights, at pedestrians, the wrong way down one-way streets etc) for their website. W are rather style over substance anyway!

http://www.wlondon.co.uk/gallery

Gazzaputt

Rich158 wrote:

I couldn't agree more GTVLusso. I was talking about this post with my son who is about to start commuting to work with me, last night. God knows how many cars pass me without incident in the 1 1/2 hours I'm on the road, they largely go unnoticed. What I do notice is driving/behaviour that is outside the norm. Bad driving always attracts my attention and I always remember the half or dozen or so instances of bad driving rather than the hundreds of vehicles that have passed me without incident. I think of myself as being a generally calm, laid back character and tbh I may have a little rant at the time but soon forget about it, after all we all make mistakes and life is too short get get overly wound up by them. I have however met a number of people who I can only describe as being overly 'arsey', some of whom are cyclists, who let the smallest thing wind them up to the point they are about to explode. It's my guess that given a helmet cam most of these people record incidents that most of us would pass of without a second thought and blow it up out of all proportion. It's not that they attract more trouble, just that they see more trouble in the world arround them. I can only guess that they must spend their whole life angry and get little enjoyment from life.

At the end of the day life's too short to get wound up by every little misdemeanor you see, just chill and enjoy riding your bike

Great post agree with every point.

gtvlusso

stuj15 wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

To be fair - I see more poor cycling than poor driving daily.....

Red light abuse - blatent abuse

riding on pavements

switching between pavement and road

not anticipating traffic movements ahed (i.e. going up the left side of a vehicle that is indicating left turn)

Using pedestrain crossings

Not shoulder checking when manouvering

Not shoulder checking when joining the main road

So you saw the same tw*t as me this morning doing all that GTV??

He carried on regardless, even after I blew my top and told him what I thought of him.

Rich158 wrote:

I have however met a number of people who I can only describe as being overly 'arsey', some of whom are cyclists, who let the smallest thing wind them up to the point they are about to explode.

:oops:

To be fair, he was pissing everyone off who were waiting patiently in the ASLs.

It is quite depressing. Summer, for obvious reasons, is so bad for it. I see a mixture of actions, daily. I normally get the 'queue' jumper that I have previously overtaken, but believes it to be his/her god given right to go first off the lights and then you have to take them again - this is just discourteous and a pain in the arse.

Another one I hate is the people who think it is okay to ride like a nutter on shared pedestrian/cycle tracks - their are pedestrians about! Almost like they think they own it.

The idiot with no road sense or regard for anyone else is the normal though - seem to leave their brain in the car as soon as they hit the saddle.

Although I am very happy that people are getting on bikes and out of cars, happy that a new generation, through fashion, have discovered cycling - i.e. the fixie crowd. It has lead to an incredible amount of twattery, as it would with anything. I am sure that when the car became more accessable to the populace,. the roads turned into a death zone!

gtvlusso

Additionally - the main points raised by most people on here are why I hate the camera crowd so much. It f*cks it for everyone if we think we are superior or use it as a threat/youtube car reg numbers - by all accounts; use one if you enjoy messing with movies and technology. But the youtube stuff does nothing for cyclists, but make us look like pedantic fools that take ourselves far too seriously. If you are a nervous rider, a camera is not going to aid you riding ability, but riding in a group will!

It especially as we are no better than anyone else out there. It's only gonna get peoples backs up in the end when they see the type of cycling idiocy that I see daily - pavements red lights and so on. Allot of the footage I have seen on youtube have been nothing incidents.....stuff, that any normal cyclist would let wash over them.

rant over - carry on.

Rich158

stuj15 wrote:

He carried on regardless, even after I blew my top and told him what I thought of him.

Rich158 wrote:

I have however met a number of people who I can only describe as being overly 'arsey', some of whom are cyclists, who let the smallest thing wind them up to the point they are about to explode.

:oops:

To be fair, he was pissing everyone off who were waiting patiently in the ASLs.

I think I've met him, I've had a rant at quite a few people who push to the front of the ASL much to my embarassment :oops: