Powertap expensive and failure prone
bahzob
Posts: 2,195
It's been a while since I was active here, so apologies if this has already been covered.
I just thought I would record my experiences of Powertap wheel reliability for those planning to purchase them. I have 5 wheels, 2 open pro training, 2 zipp open for racing and 1 zipp TT. I was an early adopter of power training, I bought my first wheel back in 2007, others during 2008 and 2009.
The fact that I need 5 tells something. If you are serious about training with power you need actual race data, so most likely will need at least 2 wheels, 3 if you TT and race.
This makes the system very expensive. It is made yet more so by the failure rate of the wheels. On average my wheels have stopped working after about 18 months. Strangely the first I bought was most reliable, finally giving up the ghost altogether after 3 years. Of the others some failed within 12 months, others after a couple of years. One has failed multiple times.
Once they are broken it can take several weeks to fix, which can put a pretty big hole in your training plan if you rely on them (I couldn't do without hence the 2 training/2 race wheels for backup).
And if they break after warranty it costs several hundreds of pounds to repair them.
I started using Powertaps when there was little choice. There is more choice now and will (I believe though I don't keep up as I used to) be more in the future. A couple of my wheels are broken atm and I have decided not to fix them and use another system instead next year.
I just thought I would record my experiences of Powertap wheel reliability for those planning to purchase them. I have 5 wheels, 2 open pro training, 2 zipp open for racing and 1 zipp TT. I was an early adopter of power training, I bought my first wheel back in 2007, others during 2008 and 2009.
The fact that I need 5 tells something. If you are serious about training with power you need actual race data, so most likely will need at least 2 wheels, 3 if you TT and race.
This makes the system very expensive. It is made yet more so by the failure rate of the wheels. On average my wheels have stopped working after about 18 months. Strangely the first I bought was most reliable, finally giving up the ghost altogether after 3 years. Of the others some failed within 12 months, others after a couple of years. One has failed multiple times.
Once they are broken it can take several weeks to fix, which can put a pretty big hole in your training plan if you rely on them (I couldn't do without hence the 2 training/2 race wheels for backup).
And if they break after warranty it costs several hundreds of pounds to repair them.
I started using Powertaps when there was little choice. There is more choice now and will (I believe though I don't keep up as I used to) be more in the future. A couple of my wheels are broken atm and I have decided not to fix them and use another system instead next year.
Martin S. Newbury RC
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Comments
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Why on earth didn't you buy an SRM instead of the 5 PowerTaps? :?
You could clearly afford to....More problems but still living....0 -
Reasons:
> Powertaps are a slippery slope. When you buy the first one its much cheaper than buying an SRM.
> Ironically given my experience to date I didnt like the thought of having return the SRM to get batteries changed plus it seemed finicky to use/calibrate.
> I liked the idea of quickly swapping wheels between bikes, being a bit of a noob I really didn't realise how important wheels become when you are racing.
Cos I'm older. wiser and poorer now I posted this thread. Though still doubt I would go SRM.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Fair enough. I spent over a grand on my Pro+ wheelset and if I was buying now I'd spend that on a Power2max instead I think. I've had no problems at all with my PowerTap so far though (touch wood).More problems but still living....0
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One Zipp disc power tap costs as much as an SRM!
Sell all your power tap wheels and get an SRM. I;ve tried Powertap, Quarq and now am riding SRM. It's the best solution out there.0 -
The process to validate the calibration of an SRM, Quarq or Powertap is the same.bahzob wrote:> Ironically given my experience to date I didnt like the thought of having return the SRM to get batteries changed plus it seemed finicky to use/calibrate.
It's just the SRM makes it possible and easy (either through their free software or their head unit) to modify that calibration. On a Quarq you can modify the calibration, although you do need additional hardware to do that (iPhone and an ANT+ usb dongle). You can't modify the calibration setting of a Powertap.
The SRM is plug and play, in the same way the Powertap is, at least when you are using their respective head units.0 -
interesting experiences here bahzob, you've got me thinking. I'll briefly share my experience.
I too was an early adopter, I went down the powertap route when all you could get was wired ones. The thing was nothing but trouble. Problems with the wires and connections and problems with the hub when it rained, all compounded by an lbs and the fact it had to be sent to USA for servicing.
So I held out for a while when the wireless ones came out and also waited until a reliable service centre was set up in Bristol. I've now got two powertaps, one I train on everyday and one I keep on the turbo which becomes a disc wheel to race on in the summer. The electrics in both have worked perfectly for 2 years(ish) but the hub bearings in both were shot after 11 months so went back under warranty. I cant complain really.
What has got me thinking after your post is that since my warranty is up, the cost of servicing is very expensive, they both may be coming to the end of their lifespan and I can't afford to replace them, that I'd better wrap both of them up in cotton wool. No more using them as my everyday wheels.0 -
Power2Max??
New one on me. Chcked out website, says prices start from €690, but not found cranks at that price.
Any good, feedback etc.
http://www.power2max.de/power2max.php?lang=enLive to ski
Ski to live0 -
amaferanga wrote:Fair enough. I spent over a grand on my Pro+ wheelset and if I was buying now I'd spend that on a Power2max instead I think. I've had no problems at all with my PowerTap so far though (touch wood).
Batteries???? :?Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!0 -
I sort-of agree with the OP about powertap reliability, but their service is very good and they tend to treat fixing things as a warranty repair so it hasn't worked out expensive for me.
I've got 2 wired systems, one I bought s/h which has worked faultlessly for 3.5 years and one I bought new which has been shocking - 4 complete failures in 2.5 years. That one is dead and back at paligap at the moment :roll: They are fixing it for no charge again, so that's ok.
My problem is I'd still need 2 systems even if I changed away from powertaps - I have one system on my TT bike which I use on the turbo too. The other system gets swapped between summer and winter road bikes.--
"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
Over the period I have had a powertap I have lost over 4 months of training data. That is totally unacceptable in my eyes but what can I do about it. I certainly wouldn't be buying one now had I not already sunk my money into it.
These are not costless issues. I had to pay for 2 1/4 year old powertap to have the torque tube replaced and that cost in excess of £400. With that I get a 1 year warranty whereas if you buy new you get 2 years on it. Given the failure rate which I have seen so far I can expect that I will have to stump up another £400+ next year to replace the torque tube again. This is getting into the area of new powertap over the same period. That basically says to me that they are treating these as disposable products. A rather expensive disposable product :x
Yes Paligap have great customer service however you should realise that it is Saris that approves all replacements so to a large extent it is they that dictate the level of customer service
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I am interested to see my experience is not isolated. It reinforces me in my advice against choosing Powertap if starting from new.Martin S. Newbury RC0
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It's worth trying to collate a record of who uses Powertap and what failures they have had.
Continual failures of a product while it's being used for the purpose it was sold for?
If it's not 'of reasonable quality' and not 'fit for the purpose it was sold for' then I believe you are within your rights to have it refunded/repaired/replaced even if it's out of warranty.0 -
GiantMike wrote:It's worth trying to collate a record of who uses Powertap and what failures they have had.
Continual failures of a product while it's being used for the purpose it was sold for?
If it's not 'of reasonable quality' and not 'fit for the purpose it was sold for' then I believe you are within your rights to have it refunded/repaired/replaced even if it's out of warranty.
That would mean proving that there was a fault at the time of manufacture or an inherent design flaw. That would be harder to prove than you might think as these are highly technical instruments that run on very fine margins and thus highly suspectible to abuse. I suspect if you started getting ar$ey with them they could just as easily turn round as say that the fault was due to user abuse and I'm sure they could make a convincing argument for it. That would mean an invalidated warranty. That's a big risk to take. Personally I would rather try and get this sorted. Hopefully my powerap will be replaced this time and whilst the whole process has been extremely tiresome and frustrating if I do get a new powertap that does seem to have much better reliability then I will be much happier. I still woudln't recommend an sl+ to anyone simply because it's price point and cost of dealing with out of warranty failtures is too much when you consider there are other options in roughly the same price bracket that seem less probelmatic.0 -
But this is exactly my point. If people post when they have a problem there will become a body of evidence. If there is competition in the market then the company is more likely to honour claims, even out of warranty ones.
If I was Powertap and people were slagging off my product when there was a decent competitor I'd do something about it. If people weren't slagging it off but just paying a lot to have it fixed I'd be less likely to be nice to my existing customers.0 -
GiantMike wrote:But this is exactly my point. If people post when they have a problem there will become a body of evidence. If there is competition in the market then the company is more likely to honour claims, even out of warranty ones.
If I was Powertap and people were slagging off my product when there was a decent competitor I'd do something about it. If people weren't slagging it off but just paying a lot to have it fixed I'd be less likely to be nice to my existing customers.
It's extremely difficult for us that are complaining to have an appreciation of how our experience translates to actual failure rates across all their sales. I suspect they would say they are line with their expectations. The problem is we haven't a clue what their expectations are.
Saris do seem to honour some out of warranty claims however that seems to be far from universal. I suspect if I had pushed the issue with them and pointed out how others were geting out of warranty repairs free then I may have got that too but I didn't know about all the problems and more importantly that some were getting these when I paid up.
Oh well I know better now.0 -
Hmm, my limited n of 1 is that the 6 or so older wired PT hubs I have in use (cheapskate, all off eBay) have been very reliable - with the exception of the track converted hubs- they die in a year or two.
The new track hub is excellent. But freaking expensive.....If you're as fat as me, all bikes are bendy.0 -
My torque tube has gone again today. Second time in 18 months. I'm tempted to throw the fecking thing in the bin and put the £300 repair bill towards the garmin pedals.0
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GiantMike wrote:But this is exactly my point. If people post when they have a problem there will become a body of evidence. If there is competition in the market then the company is more likely to honour claims, even out of warranty ones.
If I was Powertap and people were slagging off my product when there was a decent competitor I'd do something about it. If people weren't slagging it off but just paying a lot to have it fixed I'd be less likely to be nice to my existing customers.
I started this thread because of my frustration with my powertaps and to find out if others also had problems, which it seems they have.
Saris must have data on product reliability. I would hope they would act on this to improve. They really have to in any case as the market is changing. There is more choice now and a complete new alternative is on the horizon with Garmin's Vector.
As I said when I bought my first Powertap I was naive and didn't realise that you need to consider the cost of measuring power across a number of bikes and wheelsets.
Taking this into consideration I can't see how Powertaps make a good choice unless they cost around 1/3 of a system that you can swap and have a warranty linked to the life of the wheel. They should be very concerned that existing customer's, like me, might well be right and thinking that they would be better off investing in a new system rather than throwing good money after bad.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Bahzob - you have cursed my PT it started giving random readings today. First time in 2.5 years.0
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My experience:
- hired a PT Elite from CyclePowerMeters in Summer 2009 which worked perfectly until I returned it
- purchased a PT SL+ in Nov 2009 from CPM when I returned my hire unit
- sometime between May 2010 (when I broke my collarbone) and July 2010 (when I returned to proper training) the torque tube in my SL+ went on the fritz (it had been stored in the garage for that period - wasn't involved in my crash either). Was repaired under warranty by CPM. Has been fine since.
- got an old wired E-tune PowerTap hub off eBay for use on my turbo bike which although the reading cuts in and out, is accurate and has been fine so far. (Couldn't be used for training on the road though as display is too temperamental).0 -
Was your last ride on your sl+ a wet one or did you give the bike inlcuding the wheel a good wash down before storing? The reason I ask is because the water damage seems to take its time in showing up. Usually day or two. Only once did it actually fail during a wet ride while I was actually on the bike whereas the rest started to show probs a day or two later.0
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Not that I can remember. Was a while back now mind you.doyler78 wrote:Was your last ride on your sl+ a wet one or did you give the bike inlcuding the wheel a good wash down before storing?0 -
I am also a bit hacked off with Saris as I have had 2 wheels fail, one in warranty (lucky) and one out of warranty which cost me the best part of £400+ pounds to sort. The annoying thing for me was the one out of warranty probably only had less than a thousand miles on it as I only used it for TT's and the odd Road Race during the summer. Second ride out after a Torque Tube replacement and it stopped working. I could have binned it there and then. Turns out it was a loose battery holder but I still find that unacceptable for a product of this cost.
I have sent numerous emails to their customer service department which they refuse to acknowledge. I am looking down the route of getting my money back as a breach of the Sales of Goods Act 1979, satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. Google it. But what annoys me is this will involve the seller and not the manufacturer, and the seller does not deserve the hassle.0 -
I've got 3 Powertap wheels and and I am yet to have any major issues. What does strike me though is that Paligap the UK service centre have sometimes replaced the torque tubes when a wheel goes back for say a bearing replacement and then not made a charge for doing so! And this is with wheels outside of the warranty period. I'm sure this was done to one of my wheels even when I had no issues with the readings (though they do check the calibration), I know of a club mate who noted the same, and I read of this on other forums. Admittedly this is going back a little while now - it's been at least 18 months since I last had a wheel serviced, but I'd have to say that £400 does sound like a way over the top charge, bearing in mind that (a) that's a fair proportion of the original outlay and (b) one can only be talking about a tiny smattering of electronic componentry.0
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Had a torque tube replaced under warranty, now the same PT has gone dead. But at tow minds as to what it could be last tuesdays ride was in heavy rain for 2 hours rode the wheel for another 3 days, then i change casstte and regrease the freehub, next ride out its on the blink for the first 5 mins fo the ride going on and off then its dead no data ! Changed batteries still noting, my joule works fine with my other PT . Im hoping its moisture damage and will dry out and come alive again and not another torque tube
Anye else have anything simliar happen ?0 -
Yes - in the end it wasn't working despite letting it dry out for ages. In the end what fixed it for me...
A new battery holder that Paligap sent me. I also used new batteries with the holder just in case.
I also cleaned the 'tab' in the hub using contact cleaner and some cotton buds. In hindsight the amount of dirt and corrosion that came off was amazing.
On Paligap's recommendation I bought some Contralube from Maplins. They say they now use it on all their work.0 -
brettjmcc wrote:Yes - in the end it wasn't working despite letting it dry out for ages. In the end what fixed it for me...
A new battery holder that Paligap sent me. I also used new batteries with the holder just in case.
I also cleaned the 'tab' in the hub using contact cleaner and some cotton buds. In hindsight the amount of dirt and corrosion that came off was amazing.
On Paligap's recommendation I bought some Contralube from Maplins. They say they now use it on all their work.
How did you contact Paligap? I've emailed twice asking about where I can get a battery holder and had no reply.More problems but still living....0 -
Ask and you shall receive (and you owe me a double espresso if we ever meet LOL)
01454 313116, select Option 1 for sales
Don't go for the service option, it will just tell you to book it through the website
Brett0 -
FWIW, I've got 3, the one I use most is now on its 4th torque tube in 2 years and I've not paid for it once. Suspect getting my solicitor to send them a letter regarding the fitness for purpose of the goods does the trick.0
