Chris Boardman Limited

snailracer

dilemna wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows......
Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.
Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Ehh, wake up you numptee. Reading your posts so far I get the impression that you are deliberately trying to impune, slander, libel and damage Chris Boardman's name and the bikes produced in his name. Read the forum rules on defamatory posts. There is nothing under hand or misleading in what he is doing. Do you have a personal grudge against him or have you had a bad experience with Halfords the distributor of his bikes?...

I have highlighted those bits where Soni goes out of his way to "slander" Chris Boardman NOT.
IIRC the LBS merely claimed Boardman bikes were rebranded Meridas, which in a sense they are. If there is significant input from Boardman Bikes or Chris himself, some would like to hear about it and so the question was asked.

dilemna wrote:

...From what I have seen of the Boardman bikes they seem pretty good, well thought out and represent good value for money except IMHO the Boardman CX which is over priced for the spec. Many people have bought Boardman bikes and have been very pleased....

By most reports, Boardman bikes are rather good. But that does not prove or disprove Chris Boardman's involvement, or in what capacity.

dilemna wrote:

...When he came on here ages ago when there were problems with Halfords he was pretty good and obviously takes seriously how his bikes are made and distributed ensuring that purchasers are satisfied.

So cut your attempts to destroy his name and brand. Perhaps it is time for the mods to lock or bin this pathetic thread.

Surprise suprise an LBS or large retailer rubbishes the oppositions' bikes in preference to selling it's own. Do you have a few sandwiches short of a full lunch box?

So Chris Boardman comes on here and says he'll sort out Halfords issues. A competing LBS claims Boardman bikes are, horror of horrors, rebranded Meridas. Well neither party is exactly impartial, and AFAICT neither was lying.
Though some/most may not care, questioning just how much Chris Boardman there is in Boardman bikes sounds like a legitimate question to me and others. The depth of a celebrity's "endorsement" matters to some. Asking about it is hardly out of order.

mroli

The Boardman Bikes website says that it is "independently owned" - http://www.boardmanbikes.com/boardman/boardman_contact.html I guess people really worried about it could just email boardman - contact@boardmanbikes.com :roll:

snailracer

mroli wrote:

The Boardman Bikes website says that it is "independently owned" - http://www.boardmanbikes.com/boardman/boardman_contact.html I guess people really worried about it could just email boardman - contact@boardmanbikes.com :roll:

Ah, but some posters would only be satisfied if that was confirmed by an independent source.

bompington

snailracer wrote:

soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

everybody wrote:

...lots of specualtion...

You have failed to highlight a few other bits:
"It's lying and unfair to the consumer"
"they are sucked into..."
"it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name"

The point is not whether or not Boardman bikes are any good; the point is that he claims to have significant design input into them, the company claims he has significant design input into them, and if not, which is what you are at least implying, then they are lying, pure and simple.

bompington

snailracer wrote:

mroli wrote:

The Boardman Bikes website says that it is "independently owned" - http://www.boardmanbikes.com/boardman/boardman_contact.html I guess people really worried about it could just email boardman - contact@boardmanbikes.com :roll:

Ah, but some posters would only be satisfied if that was confirmed by an independent source.

Or by having a beer with him

MrChuck

Chris Boardman's input sounds like it's exactly what you'd expect it to be: some input into the design process and spec, probably in collaboration with the company that are actiually going to manufacture the frames (which sounds like it's Merida, but it doesn't matter) and lending his name and all that comes with it to the company. And IIRC he made no bones about the fact he didin't have so much to do with the MTB stuff because that's not where his expertise is.

What else does anybody expect? It's beyond me how anyone could get from there to Boardman somehow stringing everybody along because he doesn't lay up the carbon fibre himself or something. Starting a bike company with the aim of actually manufacturing the bikes yourself is a non-starter- this is obvious, as is the fact that what you'd actually do is to get the world leaders in providing the manufacturing capacity to do it, just like everybody else does in the bike world and probably pretty much every other industry. So IMO Boardman bikes are "rebadged Meridas" in the same sense that all the Speshes and umpteen other brands are, and the same way that iPhones are rebadged Foxconn phones.

snailracer

bompington wrote:

snailracer wrote:

soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

everybody wrote:

...lots of specualtion...

You have failed to highlight a few other bits:
"It's lying and unfair to the consumer"
"they are sucked into..."
"it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name"....

These are criticisms of the marketing game in which all companies must participate to survive, not of Chris Boardman or even Boardman Bikes.

bompington wrote:

snailracer wrote:

soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

everybody wrote:

...lots of specualtion...

You have failed to highlight a few other bits:
...The point is not whether or not Boardman bikes are any good; the point is that he claims to have significant design input into them, the company claims he has significant design input into them, and if not, which is what you are at least implying, then they are lying, pure and simple.

The Boardman website doesn't say much about their operations at all except for vague marketing fluff. Hardly insidious, but it invites questions of what Boardman Bikes' input is.
Chris' posts IIRC suggests his approval is required for everything (and personally I believe him) but some look for independent confirmation, and others might want to know, say, whether he simply "approves" drawings or does he have Boardman-employed designers speccing screws and Boardman QC staff tearing apart samples to verify the screws really are as-specced. IOW, what exactly are Boardman Bikes' operations?

snailracer

MrChuck wrote:

... So IMO Boardman bikes are "rebadged Meridas" in the same sense that all the Speshes and umpteen other brands are, and the same way that iPhones are rebadged Foxconn phones.

Agreed, it's just that some posters think that pointing this out constitutes criticism of Boardman Bikes or Chris Boardman.

cougie

If you follow Boardmans tweets - theres been ones from him being at the windtunnel testing bikes and pics of prototypes.

When it started up I seem to remember it being said that he didnt want to lend his name to any old crap, and he wanted to do it properly and have proper sign off on the range.

If you look at the reviews - you'll see that the range has been very well received - so I do believe he is a good part of the process.

How many bike factories these days have their own factories ? Most factor this out to other makers to be made to their own specifications. I dont see this as a negative.

MrChuck

snailracer wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

... So IMO Boardman bikes are "rebadged Meridas" in the same sense that all the Speshes and umpteen other brands are, and the same way that iPhones are rebadged Foxconn phones.

Agreed, it's just that some posters think that pointing this out constitutes criticism of Boardman Bikes or Chris Boardman.

Maybe we've got some wires crossed here, but Soni certainly seemed to be implying that this makes the whole thing a sham as far as Boardman's involvement goes.

snailracer

cougie wrote:

If you follow Boardmans tweets - theres been ones from him being at the windtunnel testing bikes and pics of prototypes....

Ha, that's interesting and I would never have known if this thread had been "censored".

snailracer

MrChuck wrote:

snailracer wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

... So IMO Boardman bikes are "rebadged Meridas" in the same sense that all the Speshes and umpteen other brands are, and the same way that iPhones are rebadged Foxconn phones.

Agreed, it's just that some posters think that pointing this out constitutes criticism of Boardman Bikes or Chris Boardman.

Maybe we've got some wires crossed here, but Soni certainly seemed to be implying that this makes the whole thing a sham as far as Boardman's involvement goes.

That was not my reading of Soni's posts.
Wires get crossed easily on the net, because there is none of the intonation or emphasis you get in live speech, you have no idea who other posters are or how they typically express themselves, etc.

cougie

My interpretation of Sonis posts are the same as Mr Chuck.

Redhog14

I am utterley confused as to the "snobbery" that surrounds Boardman bikes it appears similar to the Skoda debate excepting that Skoda were shite and are now good. CB bikes started off good and appear to be getting better, the issue is that they are distributed by Halfords which bike snobs don't like but is a big part of why they are such good value. FWIW my LBS admitted recently that he can't argue with CB bikes and why people buy them, good value and good quality. Why does Ribble or Planet X have better kudos than CB?

Soni

Snailracer,

Thanks for looking at things in the light that they were intended.

Others are either Boardman bike owners and have taken things personally, or have read into things differently than intended.

Everybody Else,

I don't need to defend myself here, however as previously explained my Mrs has a Boardman Road Bike (Female Type White/Pink) and she purchased that on my recommendation, 105 rear mech etc., etc., and the bike has been great and Halfords were great also, apart from building the wrong bike up initially, they built up a carbon machine, which in their defence did look very similar to the untrained eyes, it was the same colour

For what its worth, i also drive a Mazda 6 Company Car at present, which is now due for renewal, and what car have i chose out of 1350 different variants of cars from BMW 1Series, Merc A Class, Audi A3, Vauxhall Insignia, Honda Civics SI's, etc., etc., - I've actually chosen (awaiting delivery) a SKODA Octavia 1.8 TSI Elegance Estate. Why? For one i couldn't give a rats ass about names, however what i do care about is the practicability of the car, comfort, speed and SKODA came up at the top of my list on all of those requirements.

If you read into my opening post, you will see that my question was how can Chris Boardmans company be worth so little........

I didn't realise at the time that he didn't own the company, and i also wasn't aware that the company was owned by a Taiwan company who also part own Specialised.

I may be niaive, however i bet you a lot of people aren't familiar with the way these 'companies' operate.

I'm not digging CB out here either, however what i will say and what i will stand by, is the way these companies set themselves up, is that they make the average consumer believe that (in this case) Chris Boardman owns the company by having his name plastered all over the bikes. OK, so i and others may be niave in thinking that, and if we read the website we may have been a little bit more informed...

Members come on to these forums to learn, ok it may be 'cake stop', but at the end of the day its not a lot different to the 'Workshop' section, people are reading, learning new things, and broadening their knowledge of the cycling world.

It makes me wonder if we were sitting in a cafe or a pub, and i opened a conversation in the same way i started this thread, would i have got the replies that i have received in this thread - i think not........

snailracer wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

snailracer wrote:

MrChuck wrote:

... So IMO Boardman bikes are "rebadged Meridas" in the same sense that all the Speshes and umpteen other brands are, and the same way that iPhones are rebadged Foxconn phones.

Agreed, it's just that some posters think that pointing this out constitutes criticism of Boardman Bikes or Chris Boardman.

Maybe we've got some wires crossed here, but Soni certainly seemed to be implying that this makes the whole thing a sham as far as Boardman's involvement goes.

That was not my reading of Soni's posts.
Wires get crossed easily on the net, because there is none of the intonation or emphasis you get in live speech, you have no idea who other posters are or how they typically express themselves, etc.

Soni

I haven't even read your whole post, as frankly can't be bothered, you are clearly not listening to a word I've said, you are obviously so wrapped up on your own little paranoid world, or you are after a response, and if the latter you are wasting your time.

However, for the record, if i really thought boardman bikes were crap,.I would say it, I ain't worried about voicing my opinions to somebodies face, so certainly ain't worried about being some 'keyboard warrior' as you put it.

Take a read again fella, and maybe next time it may actually go in, although I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, I suppose next you will want photographic evidence of my wifes boardman next to my trek!!!

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows.......

In which case it's not advertising, it's plain lying, and you could always try suing.
Mightn't it be easier for someone Boardman's skills and proven track record in bike design to actually do what they say (i.e. provide design input into the bikes) than go to all this trouble to deceive the cycling world? And no-one ever claimed that he hand makes the frames himself, it's hardly a secret that they're made in the far east, which is where you can get the best frames for the least money, pure and simple.

As for what LBSs say, I wouldn't call it snobbery so much as protecting their interests, they're hardly impartial observers here are they?

I have to say that for speculation, innuendo and jumping to conclusions based on close to zero actual knowledge or information, this whole thread is impressive even by the usual internet standards.

Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.

Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Errr, no, I don't understand your point, and I understand it even less after your last post. Like other posters here, I was getting the impression that all the waffle about company value, registered address etc. was leading up to the thinly veiled accusations that Boardman is nothing to do with Boardman bikes, and so is a fraud and a liar. My point was that if this is true, he should be getting locked up, and the challenge should be open and legal rather than the same old keyboard warrior innuendo.

Soni wrote:

this is an.open forum and people are.entitled to discuss matters of interest

This is indeed an open forum and people do discuss matters of interest, so when you post a load of slanderous bullfeathers about someone who has a lot of respect from a lot of people here then you can reasonably expect them to call you out. Most posters here are not that easily offended (OK, Dilemna is but I'm definitely with him here) but a lot of us just get tired of tedious trolling followed by "OK so I was being stupid and insulting but no need to get upset by it"

dilemna

Soni wrote:

I haven't even read your whole post, as frankly can't be bothered, you are clearly not listening to a word I've said, you are obviously so wrapped up on your own little paranoid world, or you are after a response, and if the latter you are wasting your time.

However, for the record, if i really thought boardman bikes were crap,.I would say it, I ain't worried about voicing my opinions to somebodies face, so certainly ain't worried about being some 'keyboard warrior' as you put it.

Take a read again fella, and maybe next time it may actually go in, although I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, I suppose next you will want photographic evidence of my wifes boardman next to my trek!!!

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows.......

In which case it's not advertising, it's plain lying, and you could always try suing.
Mightn't it be easier for someone Boardman's skills and proven track record in bike design to actually do what they say (i.e. provide design input into the bikes) than go to all this trouble to deceive the cycling world? And no-one ever claimed that he hand makes the frames himself, it's hardly a secret that they're made in the far east, which is where you can get the best frames for the least money, pure and simple.

As for what LBSs say, I wouldn't call it snobbery so much as protecting their interests, they're hardly impartial observers here are they?

I have to say that for speculation, innuendo and jumping to conclusions based on close to zero actual knowledge or information, this whole thread is impressive even by the usual internet standards.

Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.

Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Errr, no, I don't understand your point, and I understand it even less after your last post. Like other posters here, I was getting the impression that all the waffle about company value, registered address etc. was leading up to the thinly veiled accusations that Boardman is nothing to do with Boardman bikes, and so is a fraud and a liar. My point was that if this is true, he should be getting locked up, and the challenge should be open and legal rather than the same old keyboard warrior innuendo.

Soni wrote:

this is an.open forum and people are.entitled to discuss matters of interest

This is indeed an open forum and people do discuss matters of interest, so when you post a load of slanderous bullfeathers about someone who has a lot of respect from a lot of people here then you can reasonably expect them to call you out. Most posters here are not that easily offended (OK, Dilemna is but I'm definitely with him here) but a lot of us just get tired of tedious trolling followed by "OK so I was being stupid and insulting but no need to get upset by it"

dilemna wrote:

Soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows.......

In which case it's not advertising, it's plain lying, and you could always try suing.
Mightn't it be easier for someone Boardman's skills and proven track record in bike design to actually do what they say (i.e. provide design input into the bikes) than go to all this trouble to deceive the cycling world? And no-one ever claimed that he hand makes the frames himself, it's hardly a secret that they're made in the far east, which is where you can get the best frames for the least money, pure and simple.

As for what LBSs say, I wouldn't call it snobbery so much as protecting their interests, they're hardly impartial observers here are they?

I have to say that for speculation, innuendo and jumping to conclusions based on close to zero actual knowledge or information, this whole thread is impressive even by the usual internet standards.

Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.

Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Ehh, wake up you numptee. Reading your posts so far I get the impression that you are deliberately trying to impune, slander, libel and damage Chris Boardman's name and the bikes produced in his name. Read the forum rules on defamatory posts. There is nothing under hand or misleading in what he is doing. Do you have a personal grudge against him or have you had a bad experience with Halfords the distributor of his bikes?

From what I have seen of the Boardman bikes they seem pretty good, well thought out and represent good value for money except IMHO the Boardman CX which is over priced for the spec. Many people have bought Boardman bikes and have been very pleased.

When he came on here ages ago when there were problems with Halfords he was pretty good and obviously takes seriously how his bikes are made and distributed ensuring that purchasers are satisfied.

So cut your attempts to destroy his name and brand. Perhaps it is time for the mods to lock or bin this pathetic thread.

Surprise suprise an LBS or large retailer rubbishes the oppositions' bikes in preference to selling it's own. Do you have a few sandwiches short of a full lunch box?

Do you still stand by your libellous and defamatory remarks or are you going to make an apology?

kingmho

dilemna wrote:

<snip>
Do you still stand by your libellous and defamatory remarks or are you going to make an apology?

As was previously pointed out, those are criticisms of advertising endorsements in general, no allegations were made directly about Boardman. Soni criticised the established, but nonetheless questionable practices used in the whole advertising sector - legally you're allowed to do that without being accused of libel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 10729.html

Soni

Stop being childish, Won't be apologising, so don't hold your breath, I stand by what I say, it is wrong of companies to use that type of marketing, do you think the company would have such huge sales if it had their companies name on the frame instead of CB....and again this isn't.personal to cb, as I understand 'from what I've learnt in the thread' that penty of other companies are also doing the same thing.....

dilemna wrote:

Soni wrote:

I haven't even read your whole post, as frankly can't be bothered, you are clearly not listening to a word I've said, you are obviously so wrapped up on your own little paranoid world, or you are after a response, and if the latter you are wasting your time.

However, for the record, if i really thought boardman bikes were crap,.I would say it, I ain't worried about voicing my opinions to somebodies face, so certainly ain't worried about being some 'keyboard warrior' as you put it.

Take a read again fella, and maybe next time it may actually go in, although I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, I suppose next you will want photographic evidence of my wifes boardman next to my trek!!!

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows.......

In which case it's not advertising, it's plain lying, and you could always try suing.
Mightn't it be easier for someone Boardman's skills and proven track record in bike design to actually do what they say (i.e. provide design input into the bikes) than go to all this trouble to deceive the cycling world? And no-one ever claimed that he hand makes the frames himself, it's hardly a secret that they're made in the far east, which is where you can get the best frames for the least money, pure and simple.

As for what LBSs say, I wouldn't call it snobbery so much as protecting their interests, they're hardly impartial observers here are they?

I have to say that for speculation, innuendo and jumping to conclusions based on close to zero actual knowledge or information, this whole thread is impressive even by the usual internet standards.

Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.

Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Errr, no, I don't understand your point, and I understand it even less after your last post. Like other posters here, I was getting the impression that all the waffle about company value, registered address etc. was leading up to the thinly veiled accusations that Boardman is nothing to do with Boardman bikes, and so is a fraud and a liar. My point was that if this is true, he should be getting locked up, and the challenge should be open and legal rather than the same old keyboard warrior innuendo.

Soni wrote:

this is an.open forum and people are.entitled to discuss matters of interest

This is indeed an open forum and people do discuss matters of interest, so when you post a load of slanderous bullfeathers about someone who has a lot of respect from a lot of people here then you can reasonably expect them to call you out. Most posters here are not that easily offended (OK, Dilemna is but I'm definitely with him here) but a lot of us just get tired of tedious trolling followed by "OK so I was being stupid and insulting but no need to get upset by it"

dilemna wrote:

Soni wrote:

bompington wrote:

Soni wrote:

...Just plain advertising, no different to seeing a celebrity on the tv adverts using an accessory trying to lead you to believe that they have a connection with that product, maybe chris.does maybe he doesn't, who knows.......

In which case it's not advertising, it's plain lying, and you could always try suing.
Mightn't it be easier for someone Boardman's skills and proven track record in bike design to actually do what they say (i.e. provide design input into the bikes) than go to all this trouble to deceive the cycling world? And no-one ever claimed that he hand makes the frames himself, it's hardly a secret that they're made in the far east, which is where you can get the best frames for the least money, pure and simple.

As for what LBSs say, I wouldn't call it snobbery so much as protecting their interests, they're hardly impartial observers here are they?

I have to say that for speculation, innuendo and jumping to conclusions based on close to zero actual knowledge or information, this whole thread is impressive even by the usual internet standards.

Finally somebody else who understands my point, its lying and unfair to the consumer.

Some of.you may know who makes what and who doesn't, however to those new to cycling they are sucked into the my bike is desiged and made by Chris boardman or at least his company.... So must be a good bike, whereas Chris may or maynot have any influence on the design at all!

I know that if my name was placed on a bike then I would want it to be of a high standard and I would.almost certainly say that Chris would to from the type of guy he seems to be....

However, the point of.the matter is that it is misleading and companies shouldn't be allowed.to trade off of somebody else's name....

Ehh, wake up you numptee. Reading your posts so far I get the impression that you are deliberately trying to impune, slander, libel and damage Chris Boardman's name and the bikes produced in his name. Read the forum rules on defamatory posts. There is nothing under hand or misleading in what he is doing. Do you have a personal grudge against him or have you had a bad experience with Halfords the distributor of his bikes?

From what I have seen of the Boardman bikes they seem pretty good, well thought out and represent good value for money except IMHO the Boardman CX which is over priced for the spec. Many people have bought Boardman bikes and have been very pleased.

When he came on here ages ago when there were problems with Halfords he was pretty good and obviously takes seriously how his bikes are made and distributed ensuring that purchasers are satisfied.

So cut your attempts to destroy his name and brand. Perhaps it is time for the mods to lock or bin this pathetic thread.

Surprise suprise an LBS or large retailer rubbishes the oppositions' bikes in preference to selling it's own. Do you have a few sandwiches short of a full lunch box?

Do you still stand by your libellous and defamatory remarks or are you going to make an apology?

snailracer

Soni wrote:

Snailracer,

Thanks for looking at things in the light that they were intended...

You're welcome

Soni wrote:

Snailracer,
...I may be niaive, however i bet you a lot of people aren't familiar with the way these 'companies' operate.

Naive? Quite the opposite. If you accepted marketing claims without questioning whether those claims held water, then you'd be naive.

snailracer

kingmho wrote:

dilemna wrote:

<snip>
Do you still stand by your libellous and defamatory remarks or are you going to make an apology?

As was previously pointed out, those are criticisms of advertising endorsements in general, no allegations were made directly about Boardman. Soni criticised the established, but nonetheless questionable practices used in the whole advertising sector - legally you're allowed to do that without being accused of libel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 10729.html

+1
Some folks are not so good at reading comprehension.

Presumably some folks risked "libel" when they challenged the claims made in the following ads (which were subsequently banned):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... false.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... ising.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... dvert.html

Dodgy celebrity endorsements are commonplace so the public are entitled to question the truthfulness of messages marketeers put out. Despite what cynics might think, in the UK false advertising is not acceptable and the ASA exists to stop the most blatant examples.

bompington

Let's have a little recap of this thread, as I understand it.
It started off with Soni posting some links to company info about Boardman bikes, very little information actually - no income and expenditure, just "net worth" whatever that means for what is very obviously a shell company.
With a few nudges and winks, ("Make of this what you will.....", "Make your own conclusions..........") he gradually comes round to his real message: that Boardman bikes is apparently owned by Merida.

I think what has riled a few of us isn't this shock horror revelation, it was the disingenuous ("how very interesting, so Chris doesn't really own the company at all then?"), roundabout way of "revealing" it.

Why did it need all that? What is your motivation to "reveal" something about Boardman bikes, which you claim to think highly of, and Boardman himself, who you claim to think highly of, in a way that seems calculated to show them in as bad a light as possible?

That and the fact that the Merida ownership claim is based on no other information than that Inner Ring has boardman listed on Merida's "other brand" column - it noticeably doesn't say that Merida own Boardman (by contrast it does say they own, or at least jointly own, Specialized). Apart from that, there doesn't appear to be any evidence at all of the actual ownership. If anyone has any actual evidence of this I, and a lot of other people, would like to hear it: but in the end, even if it turns out to be Merida, Rupert Murdoch or Colonel Gaddafi who actually owns it, it's not strictly relevant anyway - but perhaps this is?

Maybe the investment mentioned does come from Merida? But in the end Boardman has claimed, outright, that he is fully involved in the design. He's either lying or he's not; if he isn't, then it's defamatory to say he is. If on the other hand he is lying, then he and "his" company are fraudulent.
In either case the proper place to establish this is the ASA or even the courts, not by one of the most ridiculous pieces of nudge-nudge-wink-winkery ever to grace these hallowed pages.

Redhog14

I might have lost the will to live, I have certainly lost the thread of this [/i]he said/she said bullshit on here... only one way to settle it in the words of the great Harry Hill

FIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTT

inkyfingers

I'm sorry to break this to you lads but Ronald McDonald didn't make the burger you had for lunch and Colonel Sanders doesn't still own the fried chicken takeaway you brought on the way home from the pub at the weekend.

snailracer

bompington wrote:

Let's have a little recap of this thread, as I understand it.
It started off with Soni posting some links to company info about Boardman bikes, very little information actually - no income and expenditure, just "net worth" whatever that means for what is very obviously a shell company...

You can buy a financial report (e.g. from Standard & Poor's) for most companies so you can sound reasonably knowledgeable at a job interview about what they do, what their scale of their operations is, where their facilities are located, who their directors are, how many staff they employ, what their turnover is, whether they are making profits, etc. It's perfectly legitimate stuff.

bompington wrote:

...With a few nudges and winks, ("Make of this what you will.....", "Make your own conclusions..........") he gradually comes round to his real message: that Boardman bikes is apparently owned by Merida.

I think what has riled a few of us isn't this shock horror revelation, it was the disingenuous ("how very interesting, so Chris doesn't really own the company at all then?"), roundabout way of "revealing" it...
...Why did it need all that? What is your motivation to "reveal" something about Boardman bikes, which you claim to think highly of, and Boardman himself, who you claim to think highly of, in a way that seems calculated to show them in as bad a light as possible?...

Soni was accused of "living under a rock" for supposedly not accepting that brands may be separate entities from the manufacturer. You are now saying that his "revealing" that this is the case (unconfirmed) is somehow defamatory to the brand. Well, those are contradictory arguments, no? If you say it's OK to have brands separate from manufacturing, then someone saying that Brand X is actually made by Manufacturer Y can not be considered defamation.

bompington wrote:

...
That and the fact that the Merida ownership claim is based on no other information than that Inner Ring has boardman listed on Merida's "other brand" column - it noticeably doesn't say that Merida own Boardman (by contrast it does say they own, or at least jointly own, Specialized). Apart from that, there doesn't appear to be any evidence at all of the actual ownership...

With the scarcity of evidence, it not unreasonable to assume that Soni or any other random poster didn't know these (unconfirmed) "facts" before they joined this thread.
The ownership claim is made by Wikipedia. Inner Ring does not specifically make that claim, it only suggests that Merida manufactures for the Boardman brand. On an internet forum, internet sources are all you can link to, so if you are looking for legal "proof" you will be disappointed.

bompington wrote:

... there doesn't appear to be any evidence at all of the actual ownership. If anyone has any actual evidence of this I, and a lot of other people, would like to hear it...

Me too. And if no-one dare asks for fear of being accused of libel, defamation, etc., you won't ever get an answer.

bompington wrote:

...
But in the end Boardman has claimed, outright, that he is fully involved in the design. He's either lying or he's not; if he isn't, then it's defamatory to say he is. If on the other hand he is lying, then he and "his company are fraudulent....

Who said anyone was lying? Or did they simply question the claims being made? Is questioning not allowed? If Boardman Bikes were a fully-fledged manufacturer with a huge, smoky Midlands factory (with a matching operating budget in the published accounts) where you could go on a plant tour, meet Mr Boardman and see lorries dropping off tons of steel tubing and picking up boxes of finished bikes, no-one would bother asking questions about what they did or where their operations were located. But Boardman doesn't have this, and some people ARE interested in what happens and where. If Chris Boardman claimed "we do this, this and this" it's not unreasonable to look for some corroboration and detail even if you think he's honest (which I think he is).

bompington wrote:

...
In either case the proper place to establish this is the ASA or even the courts, not by one of the most ridiculous pieces of nudge-nudge-wink-winkery ever to grace these hallowed pages.

Hello, this is an internet chat forum. Next you'll be suing people talking in pubs. What's ridiculous is how some posters can fly off the handle based on their misunderstanding of an honest post, or paranoid assumptions about another forummer's motives.

snailracer

Redhog14 wrote:

I might have lost the will to live, I have certainly lost the thread of this [/i]he said/she said bullshit on here... only one way to settle it in the words of the great Harry Hill

FIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTT

Whaaat? We lay on this free entertainment for you, and this is the appreciation we get?

Soni

Blimey, talk about a dog.with a.bone and all....don't get it from your border.collie do you, they are.obcessive, I should know as have two from a working line....


Anyway, in reply to your post:

Not everybody is graced with your wisdom, and I for one didn't even know what a shell company was until i started this thread.

I wasn't.the one who 'revealed' marida or whoever they are called owned boardman bikes.

You seem so certain that I knew that boardman was owned by merida and I would say this borders on the line of paranoia!

Ask yourself this question, why would I make myself look like a Dick thinking that a company was only worth 37k and not knowing about a shell company? I would rather start a thread showing my knowledge of business and the cycling market than sound like a knob who doesn't know what he's talking.about

bompington wrote:

Let's have a little recap of this thread, as I understand it.
It started off with Soni posting some links to company info about Boardman bikes, very little information actually - no income and expenditure, just "net worth" whatever that means for what is very obviously a shell company.
With a few nudges and winks, ("Make of this what you will.....", "Make your own conclusions..........") he gradually comes round to his real message: that Boardman bikes is apparently owned by Merida.

I think what has riled a few of us isn't this shock horror revelation, it was the disingenuous ("how very interesting, so Chris doesn't really own the company at all then?"), roundabout way of "revealing" it.

Why did it need all that? What is your motivation to "reveal" something about Boardman bikes, which you claim to think highly of, and Boardman himself, who you claim to think highly of, in a way that seems calculated to show them in as bad a light as possible?

That and the fact that the Merida ownership claim is based on no other information than that Inner Ring has boardman listed on Merida's "other brand" column - it noticeably doesn't say that Merida own Boardman (by contrast it does say they own, or at least jointly own, Specialized). Apart from that, there doesn't appear to be any evidence at all of the actual ownership. If anyone has any actual evidence of this I, and a lot of other people, would like to hear it: but in the end, even if it turns out to be Merida, Rupert Murdoch or Colonel Gaddafi who actually owns it, it's not strictly relevant anyway - but perhaps this is?

Maybe the investment mentioned does come from Merida? But in the end Boardman has claimed, outright, that he is fully involved in the design. He's either lying or he's not; if he isn't, then it's defamatory to say he is. If on the other hand he is lying, then he and "his" company are fraudulent.
In either case the proper place to establish this is the ASA or even the courts, not by one of the most ridiculous pieces of nudge-nudge-wink-winkery ever to grace these hallowed pages.

snailracer

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm sorry to break this to you lads but Ronald McDonald didn't make the burger you had for lunch ...

Maybe not, but some might want to know where the beef came from.

bompington

Soni wrote:

You seem so certain that I knew that boardman was owned by merida and I would say this borders on the line of paranoia!

How did you know I was paranoid? You watching me or something?

kingmho

snailracer wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm sorry to break this to you lads but Ronald McDonald didn't make the burger you had for lunch ...

Maybe not, but some might want to know where the beef came from.

If it's Spanish beef, I'd like a triple-megaburger, please.