Wheelsucker etiquette.

asprilla

If I'm behind someone then I'm off to the right so I can see what's coming and I'm usually 2-3m away from them at best. I'd expect the same from anyone else behind me.

Aidy

I don't really mind, although there aren't very many people along my route quick enough to hang on.

The one occasion where it's really annoyed me is where I've towed someone all the way up a hill, slowed a little whilst the lights were changing, and then moved out around a stationary vehicle. I'd've expected a thanks, rather than an angry shout to "hold my line".

Niccoss

I'm easy with towing along drafters on the commute through South London and often take a tow back when feeling a little feeble. Though I'm always scanning the road ahead to anticipate any erratic moves and a metre or two behind!
Though certainly not when the traffic's busy/small gaps/obstacles.... I'll back off then and let the mentalists do their thing.....

El Gordo

I find when I'm driving that I can save a considerable amount of petrol by sitting 2 feet off the car in-front. What's the problem? We're all going the same way aren't we? :roll:

I hate drafters - it's not a race, there's traffic around and the limpet has no idea how I'm going to behave. I'll either crank up the pace to drop them, stop pedalling until they overtake or, as in the case of a really persistent free-loader a couple of weeks ago, tell him to get the f' off my wheel.

jzed

Drafting is a no for me unless I know the person. I punch a big whole in the wind so am like a red rag to a bull. Those that can get into the whole seldomly take a turn. I'll do my best to ensure that nobody can get in there and they have to work the same as me.

I don't get the full drafting advantage as usually I'm getting blasted by the wind going straight over the top of the person in front and into me.

Haven't seen some of the serial drafters for a while now - Giant Man and Bobble hat man must be in summer hibernation.

DonDaddyD

It's like getting a dance of a girl in a club. Far easier to dance with the ones you know and/or arrive with.

Strangers? Well we may not have been formally introduced but if I've seen you about and you look like you know what your doing, then I might allow it. Depends on how good you look. Don't get too close now, I'm taken.

What I hate is complete strangers feeling obliged to hang on to my rear. Them and the hybrids and fixies they can feck right off!

Rich158

First Aspect wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

Is it really that contentious? I've no problem with being drafted so long as it's done with reasonable care and if I'm drafting I'm always aware that the wheel I'm following may not be used to it and be prone to the odd bit of erratic behaviour so I give them a bit more space than the usual 6 inches or so you get when racing.

If it's done safely then I really don't see the problem

How do you know if its being done safely? I've been on enough group rides with people who think they are doing it safely right up until they touch wheels and go down, to know that I'd rather presume that the wheelsucker is a moron who is putting me at risk.

You're assuming it's the drafter that's the problem. If you're being drafted then you are responsible for the safety of the person behind you, it's basic club run stuff. Point out hazards, pot holes etc, ride at a constant pace and don't do anything stupid like swerving to avoid drain covers.

I've been down several times when racing, and seen numerous accidents and they are pretty much all down to two things, shere stupidy and riders not holding their line. Apply a few basic rules and a large dollop of common sense and it shouldn't ever be a problem.

rick_chasey

DonDaddyD wrote:

What I hate is complete strangers feeling obliged to hang on to my rear.

It's rubbish when you're cycling too...

chuckcork

Drafting behind any bicycle is like drafting behind a bus or truck, fun and saves a lot of energy, but unless your spot on with your reactions can end messily.

Chap in the Club last year had a slight collision with another as the chap in front stopped for a red light (way back from a club run), result was "some grazes, a sore head (helmet a life saver), broken & dislocated finger on left hand (pretty obvious if you saw the shape), and a broken right shoulder". Following on from this was operations on his shoulder and a left hand which (last I heard) might not ever be able to be closed again.

Rich158

El Gordo wrote:

I find when I'm driving that I can save a considerable amount of petrol by sitting 2 feet off the car in-front. What's the problem? We're all going the same way aren't we? :roll:

I hate drafters - it's not a race, there's traffic around and the limpet has no idea how I'm going to behave. I'll either crank up the pace to drop them, stop pedalling until they overtake or, as in the case of a really persistent free-loader a couple of weeks ago, tell him to get the f' off my wheel.

Or you could ride in a responsible manner that's not likely to cause an accident and ask them politely not to draft you. You can either be a gent or a complete cock about it, the choice is yours

Tricycleboy

Normally i don't do it. just can't trust the guy in front not to be a numpty... i roll up behind and when i can just zip in front- i'd rather do the work in the wind and have someone sit on my wheel.

For the first time ever i actually got thanked for giving someone a tow down the embankement yesterday, and a complement on my speed when we arrived at the lights. Was doubly chuffed as i was bloody hungover and so wasn't really belting it.

jedster

If I'm behind someone then I'm off to the right so I can see what's coming and I'm usually 2-3m away from them at best. I'd expect the same from anyone else behind me.

bingo

Greg T

chuckcork wrote:

and a left hand which (last I heard) might not ever be able to be closed again.

Am I the ONLY one . . . .

First.Aspect

Rich158 wrote:

You're assuming it's the drafter that's the problem. If you're being drafted then you are responsible for the safety of the person behind you, it's basic club run stuff. Point out hazards, pot holes etc, ride at a constant pace and don't do anything stupid like swerving to avoid drain covers.

I've been down several times when racing, and seen numerous accidents and they are pretty much all down to two things, shere stupidy and riders not holding their line. Apply a few basic rules and a large dollop of common sense and it shouldn't ever be a problem.

I'm afraid your post highlights precisely why drafting on a commute is objectionable.

Your argument seems to be that, without asking, the guy behind places a duty of care on the person in front. Not only do they have to be distracted by pointing out potholes, but they are better to hop over or ride through them to hold their line, just in case the guy behind has a slight overlap.

What if the guy in front doesn't want to take on this responsibility? Does he have to turn around whilst cycling in traffic to inform the person behind? Or take it on for long enough to get to a set of lights and persade the other person to stop?

What if the person in front doesn't know that they are being drafted? What if the person behind over estimates the skills of the person in front, or their own skills? Is that the fault of the non-consenting person in front? Of course it isn't.

What if the person behind knows best and carries on regardless? I've politely asked people not to wheelsuck in the past and been told to **$% off.

Sorry - save drafting for group rides on quiet roads, the track, and races, where it belongs.

NB:Just a slight correction for you - if there are two people, it shouldn't matter if you hold your line or not because you SHOULD NOT OVERLAP WHEELS. That's only relevant to riding in a pack.

Santa cruzing

i used to be non-plussed on the subject, untill someone stuck on my wheel for 6 miles one night last week. I was working hard, no hello, no thank you, no turn in front. I felt uncomfortable with how close he was at times and it is a distraction. I know it doesn't slow me down, but i dont want him running into me or taking me down.

Its absurd to say the rider upfront is responsible for signalling potholes and holding their line, In a race yes, but why should they be forced to take responsibility for someone they do not know riding behind them on the commute? The lead rider may not have any experience of tight proximity riding or giving the correct signals.

You should not be putting trust in strangers riding ablity either as the drafter or draftee - adding to the dangers of commuting is not beneficial to anyone.

On a possitive note, me and a colleague shared the work on our commute home last night. It was my first proper experience of drafting as a reciprocal arrangement and I definately felt the benefit. The break from the wind is welcome, we had a good laugh and made good time - and riding more often with the same people will improve the effects im sure.

_Brun_

When being drafted I like to aim for potholes and swerve out of the way at the last minute.

It's hilarious!


(while not necessarily true, it sums up my thoughts on the matter)

rick_chasey

So for those who think commuter etiquette allows for wheelsucking, what's the etiquette whilst wheel sucking?

cjcp

Rich158 wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

Is it really that contentious? I've no problem with being drafted so long as it's done with reasonable care and if I'm drafting I'm always aware that the wheel I'm following may not be used to it and be prone to the odd bit of erratic behaviour so I give them a bit more space than the usual 6 inches or so you get when racing.

If it's done safely then I really don't see the problem

How do you know if its being done safely? I've been on enough group rides with people who think they are doing it safely right up until they touch wheels and go down, to know that I'd rather presume that the wheelsucker is a moron who is putting me at risk.

You're assuming it's the drafter that's the problem. If you're being drafted then you are responsible for the safety of the person behind you, it's basic club run stuff.

My own view is that everyone on the Club run is responsible for their own safety and that the person behind (A) accepts the risk that they can't see what they might be able to if they were the rider in front (B). Point out potholes etc (where possible) but A should not rely on B. You could say that B accepts some risk by allowing A to ride behind him, bit B isn't responsible for A's safety.

Greg T

Rick Chasey wrote:

So for those who think commuter etiquette allows for wheelsucking, what's the etiquette whilst wheel sucking?

I think shouting encouragement is nice.

"i wouldn't want to be first up in this wind"

"is it windy up there? It's a bit blowy back here"

that kind of stuff

rjsterry

Greg T wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

and a left hand which (last I heard) might not ever be able to be closed again.

Am I the ONLY one . . . .

No.

cjcp

Greg T wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So for those who think commuter etiquette allows for wheelsucking, what's the etiquette whilst wheel sucking?

I think shouting encouragement is nice.

"i wouldn't want to be first up in this wind"

"is it windy up there? It's a bit blowy back here"

that kind of stuff

"Can you up the pace a bit? I need to be home soon."

First.Aspect

How about, "The imaginary breakaway is going to fail and I'm not going to win this imaginary race, if you don't MTFU."

DonDaddyD

What's worst than a drafter a person who sits in my 4 - 5 o'clock a 30 - 60cm from my wheel thereby preventing me to move right without fear of riding into them.

These are the same people who, positioned as they are, when we are approaching an obstacle won't move, slow down or anything effectively attempting to run me into said obstacle.

I also hate when people on my inside swerve right across my path. Which is the counterpoint to the above.

Best just not to ride anywhere near me on my commute unless I know you.

Rich158

cjcp wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

Is it really that contentious? I've no problem with being drafted so long as it's done with reasonable care and if I'm drafting I'm always aware that the wheel I'm following may not be used to it and be prone to the odd bit of erratic behaviour so I give them a bit more space than the usual 6 inches or so you get when racing.

If it's done safely then I really don't see the problem

How do you know if its being done safely? I've been on enough group rides with people who think they are doing it safely right up until they touch wheels and go down, to know that I'd rather presume that the wheelsucker is a moron who is putting me at risk.

You're assuming it's the drafter that's the problem. If you're being drafted then you are responsible for the safety of the person behind you, it's basic club run stuff.

My own view is that everyone on the Club run is responsible for their own safety and that the person behind (A) accepts the risk that they can't see what they might be able to if they were the rider in front (B). Point out potholes etc (where possible) but A should not rely on B. You could say that B accepts some risk by allowing A to ride behind him, bit B isn't responsible for A's safety.

Ah I see the lawyer in you is coming out CJCP In my book there's responsibility on all parties in that scenario, perhaps I was rather too emphatic in placing responsibility upon the rider in front. However being responsible for the riders behind you is something that's been drilled into me ever since I started club riding and has been written into the club rules of at least two clubs I've ridden with. As the first person in a group you see the vast majority of hazards first and should point them out and react to them in an appropriate manner that doesn't endanger the safety of those arround you. This is a basic premise I believe should be drilled into all cyclists and doesn't apply purely to a drafting situation. I've nearly been taken out more times than I care to remember by fellow riders acting without any consideration for other road users and riding with a complete lack of awareness of those arround them.

Sorry I'll get down off my high horse now, this is an area that realy gets me going :roll:

essex-commuter

I've yet to meet a wheelsucker than can keep up so I don't have this problem

Rich158

cjcp wrote:

Greg T wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So for those who think commuter etiquette allows for wheelsucking, what's the etiquette whilst wheel sucking?

I think shouting encouragement is nice.

"i wouldn't want to be first up in this wind"

"is it windy up there? It's a bit blowy back here"

that kind of stuff

"Can you up the pace a bit? I need to be home soon."

Could you sit on the bar tops old chap, I'm getting a bit of wind in my face when you're in the drops and it's ruining the hair

First.Aspect

Rich158 wrote:

Ah I see the lawyer in you is coming out CJCP In my book there's responsibility on all parties in that scenario, perhaps I was rather too emphatic in placing responsibility upon the rider in front. However being responsible for the riders behind you is something that's been drilled into me ever since I started club riding and has been written into the club rules of at least two clubs I've ridden with. As the first person in a group you see the vast majority of hazards first and should point them out and react to them in an appropriate manner that doesn't endanger the safety of those arround you. This is a basic premise I believe should be drilled into all cyclists and doesn't apply purely to a drafting situation. I've nearly been taken out more times than I care to remember by fellow riders acting without any consideration for other road users and riding with a complete lack of awareness of those arround them.

Sorry I'll get down off my high horse now, this is an area that realy gets me going :roll:

I've highlighted some useful words for you to consider. I simply don't see how drafting a random stranger without permission is compatible with "consideration for other road users".

Santa cruzing

First Aspect wrote:

I simply don't see how drafting a random stranger without permission is compatible with "consideration for other road users".

+1

ddraver

DonDaddyD wrote:

What's worst than a drafter a person who sits in my 4 - 5 o'clock a 30 - 60cm from my wheel thereby preventing me to move right without fear of riding into them.

These are the same people who, positioned as they are, when we are approaching an obstacle won't move, slow down or anything effectively attempting to run me into said obstacle.

I also hate when people on my inside swerve right across my path. Which is the counterpoint to the above.

Best just not to ride anywhere near me on my commute unless I know you.

Consider this - If you move out and clip their front wheel, it will almost certainly be them that falls - Signal the first or second time and then just move..

Club runs are totally different though, The point of them is to ride as a group not as a closely spaced TT, so the people at the front should call the obstacles and the calls should ripple back through the group - we can't all ride at the front, the road isnt big enough!

A new question - what about drafting a slow scooter/motorbike like they have over here, they go about 35kph and it was a windy day - not sure the hot Dutch girl driving appreciated it much though :oops:

Rich158

Santa cruzing wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

I simply don't see how drafting a random stranger without permission is compatible with "consideration for other road users".

+1

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's right or wrong, personally I don't have a problem with being drafted or with drafting. If I'm drafting someone, and I do on occasion if I'm on a recovery ride, and they ask me not to then no problem I'll move back a bit. If someone tells me to 'feck off' however I'll probably to tell them not to be such a rude c*** and point out they're not as great as they think they are before moving back.