Marmotte 2012
Comments
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Do you sweat, Oldwelshman?
I regularly drink 500ml an hour on training rides and still get back lighter than when I set off.
Maybe you have camel ancestry. I have the face of a camel, but none of the "ship of the desert" characteristics!0 -
You say nutrition is more important in the 2 days prior to the ride OldWelshman - what were you eating daily out of interest?0
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Not trying to sound clever or hard lol but if I drank 500ml every hour I would be stoppoing to piss allthe time.Wallace and Gromit wrote:Do you sweat, Oldwelshman?
I regularly drink 500ml an hour on training rides and still get back lighter than when I set off.
Maybe you have camel ancestry. I have the face of a camel, but none of the "ship of the desert" characteristics!
Last 3 weekends I have been doing rides 90+ Miles and drinking 500ml and part of another drink, with cofee stopin middle.
I normally take two and end up leaving some,which is better than not taking enough for sure.
When I race I usually go hrough one bottle max,unles its really hot.
Yess I do sweat but not as much as some maybe,but its not the sweating that makes you bonk lol
There are quite a few people who have similardrink habbits to meon rides.
There are quite a few peopleon forums who IMO seem to eat and drink too much on rides.
There was one guy on here last here had 16 or more gels on a sportive ! 0 -
I dont do anything special, if I amgoing to do a normal race just eat fruit, maybe Thai meal or Pasta night before.dbg wrote:You say nutrition is more important in the 2 days prior to the ride OldWelshman - what were you eating daily out of interest?
If doing something like the marmotte would probably make sure breakfast like porridge and fresh fruit, and then pasta for lunch and dinner for at least two days, but I do not do like some, have massive pasta meal night before, I try to spread the food over twodays.
Steak day after ride 0 -
oldwelshman wrote:Not trying to sound clever or hard lol but if I drank 500ml every hour I would be stoppoing to wee-wee all the time.
Don't apologise for sounding hard. Cycling is a tough game!
I'm a great believer in sticking to what works when riding. I've always needed to down a lot of fluid, as I sweat copiously. If I don't have coffee (and the caffeine therein) then I probably stop twice for a "natural break" during a 6 or 7 hour ride, but even when I'm riding my desk at work, I go that much.
I've suffered when dehydrated in other sports and I'd sooner err on the side of too much fluid when cycling, as it's so easy to obtain and carry the stuff. Dehydration is not pleasant and take a couple of days to get over, even when resting.
If anyone is interested, an evening meal based round white fish and rice works really well for me and my Good Lady. Jamie Oliver's recipe for kedgeree is the current favourite. Easy to prepare, easy to eat, easy to digest, minimal washing up(!) and when topped up with porridge for breakfast, a sound base for any challenge.0 -
Glandon descent Q's
As Im grounded with the kids this weekend Ive been spending far too much time on the internet
Ive been looking at my times from Sportcommunication for medals and am wondering about the Glandon whilst working out my projected pacing strategy - which TBH will probably be sweat, toil and crying......
How much of the descent is taken out of the route?
Is it the whole lot from the summit to St Etiene de Cuines or just the top bit please?
And is the mat at the bottom bit obvious?
Also Ive read different opinions on what the neutralised descent actually means for rankings and medal times
Is it taken out of everything or still left in for overall position, but not time - if you know what I mean
Cheers0 -
The whole lot is neutralised. My time from last year on the website is 47 mins less than my actual time so I guess I took 47 mins to grab some water and scoff an energy bar at the top of the Glandon and then get down to St Etienne. I only have a vague recollection of the mat at the bottom but I think its pretty obvious. By all means have a pacing plan but realise it will probably last as far as half way up the Glandon
I'm not going to worry about medal times and just go as fast as I can and take what I get. 0 -
I last rode it in 2010 and there was a timing strip right at the top of the Glandon, next to all the food, and another strip right down in the town (St. Etiene...?) where you turn right and head off up the valley. The descent took me 30mins, I think, from strip to strip.Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer0
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Yep, the mat was obvious. There were some marshals at the bottom, I think, telling riders to slow down.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Pacing plans are all well and good whilst looking at the profile from the comfort of a café a couple of days before hand. It's only when you get half way up the Glandon and your heart rate is pinging off the limiter due to adrenaline and considerable effort combined that you'll realise that it's going to be a dog fight with your physiology from Plan Lachat onwards. I bagged a silver last year and would be doing it again had one of my oldest pals decided not to get married on the same day. (I've got a good bib number going spare if anyone wants it.. 2200ish)
What's that old saying?.. 'plan for the worst, hope for the best'.
Oh, and pray for good weather!0 -
How's the training going ? Feeling a wee bit bogged down as I've gone for a volume related plan and my legs feel screwed all the time. Not specifically doing hills although being on the bike for 200 miles a week in Scotland inevitably includes some lifting.
Getting excited too. 0 -
OK I think. Will know better after I've done the Hampshire Hilly Hundred next weekend.
The bad weather and low temperatures are really making training a chore especially after the warm two weeks at the end of March. Seems winter has lasted two months longer than usual.0 -
The weather is really starting to take it's toll. Did a sportive on Saturday (in Ireland) and was pretty much dressed for winter!
After the two good weeks in March (for which I was stuck in work) it makes it even harder.
I know the motivation should carry you through, but damn it, it would be nice to get a nice sunny and mildly warm cycle in, one wear shorts would actually be ok to wear.
Finding it more and more difficult to force myself out in the constant changeable weather, the only constant being that it will be cold....and there is a very good chance of getting wet.
Still; only 9 weeks to go. Just get the head down, try to stay focused and iagine just how fast you will be when you don't have all the winter gear weighting you down!!!!!So this little yellow braclet makes me a better cyclist?0 -
Keep on keeping on Leroy42!
I got terribly bored of doing 80+ mile rides last year in the Yoikshire Dales in the couple of months preceeding the event itself. It felt like I was devoting half of my free time every weekend to destroying myself in the cold/wet/windy dales. The only thing I can say is to get involved in as many long sportives and/or long hilly club runs with other cyclists to keep morale high. I did the Fred Whitton and the Etape du Dales in May last year and they really provided a good challenge. Remember to have a few days off here and there too. You'll only really improve if you give your body time to adapt to all the training.
Don't worry. It'll soon be here and you'll be queueing up in Bourg waiting for the crowd to move off.
One tip for when you finish the ride - don't wait around for the shitty free pasta - coast down into huez and get yourself a burger and a beer at one of the many bars. The queue for the free pasta takes about 2 hours (depending when you finish) you'll get cold and then suffer the disappointment of the grub.0 -
Quick tip for people that haven't done the Marmotte before - might have already been covered, but will say it nonetheless.
While the easiest climb, I reckon the Telegraphe is the burial ground of fast Marmotte times. Very, very easy to do it too fast, meaning you fade quite badly towards the top of the Galibier and on the Alpe. Take it easy, very easy, and treat the Telegraphe and the Galibier as one climb - you get sod all rest between the two.0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:Quick tip for people that haven't done the Marmotte before - might have already been covered, but will say it nonetheless.
While the easiest climb, I reckon the Telegraphe is the burial ground of fast Marmotte times. Very, very easy to do it too fast, meaning you fade quite badly towards the top of the Galibier and on the Alpe. Take it easy, very easy, and treat the Telegraphe and the Galibier as one climb - you get sod all rest between the two.
I wish I'd written that on my top tube last year.
Despite plenty of warnings not too, I got carried away thinking I was going really well so could push up the second half of the Telegraph. Paid dearly after Plan Lachet on the Galibier and the Alpe was horrible. Won't be making the same mistake this year.0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:Quick tip for people that haven't done the Marmotte before - might have already been covered, but will say it nonetheless.
While the easiest climb, I reckon the Telegraphe is the burial ground of fast Marmotte times. Very, very easy to do it too fast, meaning you fade quite badly towards the top of the Galibier and on the Alpe. Take it easy, very easy, and treat the Telegraphe and the Galibier as one climb - you get sod all rest between the two.
Amen to that.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:Quick tip for people that haven't done the Marmotte before - might have already been covered, but will say it nonetheless.
While the easiest climb, I reckon the Telegraphe is the burial ground of fast Marmotte times. Very, very easy to do it too fast, meaning you fade quite badly towards the top of the Galibier and on the Alpe. Take it easy, very easy, and treat the Telegraphe and the Galibier as one climb - you get sod all rest between the two.
Absolutely!! On paper the Telegraphe is the easiest of all the Marmotte climbs but for some reason I always suffered there. Take it easy and save something for the mighty Galibier. Oh yes, tempting as it is, don't get dragged into a silly 40kmh through and off game with some speedy Dutch guys on the flat before St Michel!! Maybe that's why I always suffered on The Telegraphe?
By the way if anyone knows anyone who needs a Marmotte entry, due to a few cancellations due to injury (and lack of training I reckon :oops: ), I now have a few entries available. At this late stage I'm letting them go for cost price plus a tenner for admin. email me for details.
Cheers,0 -
Abdoujaparov wrote:While the easiest climb, I reckon the Telegraphe is the burial ground of fast Marmotte times. Very, very easy to do it too fast, meaning you fade quite badly towards the top of the Galibier and on the Alpe. Take it easy, very easy, and treat the Telegraphe and the Galibier as one climb - you get sod all rest between the two.
I'd agree with this. Until the turn at Plan Lachet for the final 8k of the Galibier, your tactics can achieve 1 of 2 things:
- Put you in a good position to do a good performance overall; or
- Stuff things up completely
In other words, for the first two thirds of the Marmotte, there's nothing you can do to guarantee a good performance, but there's an awful lot you can do to guarantee a bad one.0 -
Btw, while I agree with the advice re the Telegraphe, I didn't follow it on either of the occasions I've done it. FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
The half-way point of the Marmotte is the bottom of ADH
For the Telegraph, you'll normally arrive at the base in a big group. If not you've missed out on a free-ride along the valley. But most of the group will attack the Telegraph and the temptation is stay with them. If you can resist this, and take the first 10-15mins easy, don't worry, you'll see nearly all of them again and they'll be going backwards. I normally ride all the climbs on HR. The Glandon feels way too easy, and you have to keep easing back. The Telegraph needs a bit of holding back. The Galibier turns into a struggle to keep the HR on target, and ADH, well, that's where it's best not to look at the HR/speed or distance to go because it's going to be painful. Just count down from 21 and pray
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genki wrote:The half-way point of the Marmotte is the bottom of ADH
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Just count down from 21 and pray
Realistically, the Marmotte only really starts when you hit the steep section of the Galibier, so the top of the Galibier is probably a fair estimate of the halfway point.
The problem with counting down from 21 on ADH is two-fold:
1 - There are more than 21 corners. Some aren't numbered, so hitting "zero" still leaves you well short of the top.
2 - The corners are front-loaded to the bottom of the climb, so even if there was only 21 corners, you'd get to 10 and still only be 40% (at best) of the way up.
The problem with praying is that the Cycling Gods are b*stards and are more likely to reward you with a puncture to teach you a lesson for praying when you committed heresy by missing a few training sessions in the winter.
Still, I guess not many of you face the problem that I do this year. Mrs Wallace and Gromit is making her Marmotte debut this year and is not obviously slower than me based on sportives this year. In addition to the course, my inner demons and the weather, I have to contend with my wife going hell for leather to "dish it out" to me on the slopes of ADH. :shock:0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:genki wrote:The half-way point of the Marmotte is the bottom of ADH
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Just count down from 21 and pray
Realistically, the Marmotte only really starts when you hit the steep section of the Galibier, so the top of the Galibier is probably a fair estimate of the halfway point.
The problem with counting down from 21 on ADH is two-fold:
1 - There are more than 21 corners. Some aren't numbered, so hitting "zero" still leaves you well short of the top.
2 - The corners are front-loaded to the bottom of the climb, so even if there was only 21 corners, you'd get to 10 and still only be 40% (at best) of the way up.
Top of the Glaibier is the same as the bottom of ADH. The only difference is 1800m of descent and an hour or so to recover and refuel 8)
Yes, there's a few more hairpins after "0", but let's face it, if you can get to "0", you're going to get to the finish. But counting down is the only way I have to convince myself the ordeal will end. And don't forget the earlier zig-zags are steeper. You're over 500m up at bend 10, with less than 600m to go.
But good luck with Mrs W&G. That's the sort of extra pressure that can break a man :shock:0 -
Genki,
The key question is not where the Marmotte starts, but where it finishes you.
Re spousal pressure, it's definitely tough. Puts a whole new slant on "performance anxiety". 0 -
Can anyone comment on how good/bad the feed and water stop are like on the route?
Hoping to carry as much as I can, but if its hot then I'll need to grab more water at least once.0 -
^^^^^^ how much water can you carry ??
Dont have Marmotte experience but can definitely tell you there are numerous springs and streams, not to mention shops, where you can refill bottles
I recall the chat here saying the Glandon feed station was a zoo last year too
Keen to hear opinion on this from those in the know as much as you are........0 -
Hi, rode the Marmotte last year, and personally thought the refreshements were well placed. It was cold at the start (4-5c whilst waiting to start) but warmed up to about 25c by the time we got to Alpe d'Huez, so perfect conditions...other years it has been 40c on AdH, which would make it a different kettle of fish, I reckon.
Anyway, first refreshments were at the top of the Glandon...as others have said, this is literally a bun-fight, but you can get drink ok...best advice for the Glandon climb is that there is a steep downhill section a third of the way up, but this is followed by a fairly lengthy 10-12% climb just after this...gird your loins for that bit, it then eases all the way to the top. The next water stop was before you turn right onto the Telegraphe. The next full food and drink refreshements are in Valloire between the Telegraphe and Galibier, but this is the one that catches people out. Valloire is at the bottom of the hill after you've just climbed Telegraphe, so you're looking for drink and food at this point pretty desparately, but the refreshement stop is a good 3-4kms out of the town the other side, up a big hill, and back into countryside. Everyone around me thought they'd missed it, so beware this one and gear yourself up for a pretty steep section of climbing before you get to the refreshments.
The next water stops are Plan Lachat (8kms from the top of Galibier, and the hardest 8kms at that) and I think there was some at the top of the Galibier (can't quite remember...I definately stopped there for a few mins for some reason...but it may have been relief), but then you do have the fun section downhill for an hour, through the tunnels and the fast descent to the bottom of AdH....Final refreshment stop is in the layby 500m from the start of the zig-zags. Refill there, as in my view, it's best to just ride the AdH without stopping, get into a rhythm, and if you can admire the views, do so...make sure you get to the right by the left turn bend 9, surely the best view in cycling, takes your breath away.
I thought is was so brilliant last year, that I've entered again this year...really looking forward to it, and hoping last years experience will enable me to take 40 mins off my time...wishful thinking, methinks!0 -
I thought the stops were well placed too and didn't have a problem getting food - maybe just lucky the times I got to them but I wasn't particularly fast or slow - just sneaked into gold.
I reckon you could climb the Glandon on one large bottle, then fill two them at the top and then get over the Telegraphe before stopping again in Valoire, top the bottles up at the top of the Galibier and then foot of the Alpe (I didn't last year but I did have friend who was half way up hand me a bottle). That's if the weather is as it was last year - if it's really hot I'd probably be more conservative and top them up when I could.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Brilliant info, thanks!
Do they hand out bottles, or do you have to fill up yourself?
Guessing the latter.0 -
Thanks for all the info in this thread, much appreciated.
This will be my first Marmotte and I'm perhaps naturally a little scared and excited in equal measure. Only 8 or so weeks to go!0
