If I don't plan to do anything competitive again this year..
freehub
Posts: 4,257
Do I need to bother doing any form of speed training apart from maybe some chain gangs for fun?
If I started to do longer steadier miles with a club, sort of 100+ so I'm fresh for a new season next year, will I actually loose any speed improvement I have gained this year?
If I started to do longer steadier miles with a club, sort of 100+ so I'm fresh for a new season next year, will I actually loose any speed improvement I have gained this year?
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Comments
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If you only do long steady miles your FTP will drop. I'd keep at least one threshold or sweet spot training session a week through the winter.More problems but still living....0
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Why do 100miles + thats not necessary unless you plan doing very long races or events.0
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Why?
Why do anything?
Why eat toast on a morning instead of porridge?
Why listen to some dubstep instead of some rock
Why go left instead of right?
I'm not so keen on gherkins, why am I eating them?
I'm on the computer when I don't need to be on it, why am I here?0 -
Last year I was averaging 19mph on a 10 mile loop. Then for 8 months I did nothing but 1x 30mile and 1x50 mile rides at a slow pace as my ladyeeee and I planned to do a tour and she rides at a slower average pace.
Started to do my 10 mile again after the tour and I really struggled with pacing and averaged 15mph.
Not scientific i know but just personal experience.Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel0 -
100+ Why?? :shock:0
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Don't see what the issue is with doing 100 mile plus rides. You may as well say why ride 5 miles or 10 miles or 30 miles..... :?
For most folk cycling isn't just about training and competing - it's about doing something you enjoy. So if someone enjoys riding 100 miles then why take issue with it?More problems but still living....0 -
Freehub did not say what his competitive aims are. If the aims are long sportives then go ahead do the 100+ rides and enjoy. However if the aims are 50 - 80mile road races and 10m TT then riding lots of long distances will largely be a waste of energy and can turn into Junk miles and time could be better spent on more structured training.
At this time of year if the competition is over, then a period of just enjoying being out on the bike will be no issue.
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I've only done about 3 100+ mile rides this year, last year by this time that'd probably have being about 20+.
I'm doing training rides/ chaingangs of around 80 miles (take away 24 that's me getting to the meeting place), thursday I'll do 2x20.
I've being talked around into doing some more TT's so I'm doing a 25 mile in Manchester on 24th Sep then a 2up the week after.0 -
Sounds good. 0
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amaferanga wrote:If you only do long steady miles your FTP will drop. I'd keep at least one threshold or sweet spot training session a week through the winter.
I stopped racing in mid June, and I'm keeping myself ticking over with a toughish 2 hour endurance ride (75% - 80% FTP) and a 1 hour tempo (80%-85%) ride per week, and I don't think I've lost more than 5w from my FTP tops. My 5min max and my 1min max will be horrific, no doubt.0 -
Is it a bad sign when HR seems to go up easier?
I was on a chaingang today and just about holding onto the back when I looked at my HR monitor and it was pretty much 187-195 for about 10 miles and I was just about holding it and noticed how easy the pace felt then looked down seeing my HR at around 160+ which seems odd.
I took a day off yesterday, chain gang on Saturday and a normal not so hard ride on Sunday.0 -
Ok clever dick, you never stated what your goals or targets were so I will answer your question, no and yes.freehub wrote:Why?
Why do anything?
Why eat toast on a morning instead of porridge?
Why listen to some dubstep instead of some rock
Why go left instead of right?
I'm not so keen on gherkins, why am I eating them?
I'm on the computer when I don't need to be on it, why am I here?0 -
oldwelshman wrote:
Ok clever dick, you never stated what your goals or targets were so I will answer your question, no and yes.freehub wrote:Why?
Why do anything?
Why eat toast on a morning instead of porridge?
Why listen to some dubstep instead of some rock
Why go left instead of right?
I'm not so keen on gherkins, why am I eating them?
I'm on the computer when I don't need to be on it, why am I here?
If you read the title of the post, and the contents, and used common sense to actually realise that not everyone are pro riders and some people actually ride for fun, there would be no need to ask why do 100, it amazes me the amount of people that cannot get into their head that some people like long rides.0 -
I feel there is little that anyone here can say that will change your mind on what you intend to do. As I have stated before if you ride long distances for fun then keep doing it but don't think that it will substitute hard training (which is not so fun).
Doing long rides at this time of year is not going to help you next year if you could be doing shorter more intense training with a purpose.
I can't help but feel that these questions have been answered before... No disrespect intended (seriously). If you really want to do well racing next year then do not waste time now. It takes a great deal of will and effort to be close to the best you can become - never ever forget that, this is not an easy sport to succeed in. Also I'm sure you can find local races at this time of year so get to them it is all valuable racing experience.
If you wish to succeed do not become another one who ends his season early every year always with great aspirations for the following season only to be looking for reasons and excuses not to compete and train properly when the next racing season unfolds... then blaming something for why things have not worked out. This is not how one becomes an athlete.
The defensive attitude that you have showed in the above posts leads me to feel that you are looking for somebody to say "yes" to what you enjoy doing. If you start up a thread asking for advice please show respect for those who reply and are not intending to offend you.
You may enjoy long rides but you must make your mind up and realize that you can not accomplish everything so choices and sacrifices must be made. Are you a cut throat super motivated competitive cyclist who aims to go well out of his comfort zone and climb as high up the ladder as he can? Or are you a leisure cyclist with little desire to compete or get the most from yourself as you can? The two lifestyles are not compatible, being a good cyclist is not easy (or fun much of the time) and whatever choice you make can only ever be up to you.
Murr X0 -
Murr X wrote:I feel there is little that anyone here can say that will change your mind on what you intend to do. As I have stated before if you ride long distances for fun then keep doing it but don't think that it will substitute hard training (which is not so fun).
Doing long rides at this time of year is not going to help you next year if you could be doing shorter more intense training with a purpose.
I can't help but feel that these questions have been answered before... No disrespect intended (seriously). If you really want to do well racing next year then do not waste time now. It takes a great deal of will and effort to be close to the best you can become - never ever forget that, this is not an easy sport to succeed in. Also I'm sure you can find local races at this time of year so get to them it is all valuable racing experience.
If you wish to succeed do not become another one who ends his season early every year always with great aspirations for the following season only to be looking for reasons and excuses not to compete and train properly when the next racing season unfolds... then blaming something for why things have not worked out. This is not how one becomes an athlete.
The defensive attitude that you have showed in the above posts leads me to feel that you are looking for somebody to say "yes" to what you enjoy doing. If you start up a thread asking for advice please show respect for those who reply and are not intending to offend you.
You may enjoy long rides but you must make your mind up and realize that you can not accomplish everything so choices and sacrifices must be made. Are you a cut throat super motivated competitive cyclist who aims to go well out of his comfort zone and climb as high up the ladder as he can? Or are you a leisure cyclist with little desire to compete or get the most from yourself as you can? The two lifestyles are not compatible, being a good cyclist is not easy (or fun much of the time) and whatever choice you make can only ever be up to you.
Murr X
Jesus, its everything I would say if only I could be bothered. Well, I'd probably have been a little less polite.0 -
Murr X wrote:I feel there is little that anyone here can say that will change your mind on what you intend to do. As I have stated before if you ride long distances for fun then keep doing it but don't think that it will substitute hard training (which is not so fun).
Doing long rides at this time of year is not going to help you next year if you could be doing shorter more intense training with a purpose.
I can't help but feel that these questions have been answered before... No disrespect intended (seriously). If you really want to do well racing next year then do not waste time now. It takes a great deal of will and effort to be close to the best you can become - never ever forget that, this is not an easy sport to succeed in. Also I'm sure you can find local races at this time of year so get to them it is all valuable racing experience.
If you wish to succeed do not become another one who ends his season early every year always with great aspirations for the following season only to be looking for reasons and excuses not to compete and train properly when the next racing season unfolds... then blaming something for why things have not worked out. This is not how one becomes an athlete.
The defensive attitude that you have showed in the above posts leads me to feel that you are looking for somebody to say "yes" to what you enjoy doing. If you start up a thread asking for advice please show respect for those who reply and are not intending to offend you.
You may enjoy long rides but you must make your mind up and realize that you can not accomplish everything so choices and sacrifices must be made. Are you a cut throat super motivated competitive cyclist who aims to go well out of his comfort zone and climb as high up the ladder as he can? Or are you a leisure cyclist with little desire to compete or get the most from yourself as you can? The two lifestyles are not compatible, being a good cyclist is not easy (or fun much of the time) and whatever choice you make can only ever be up to you.
Murr X
I am going to do one long ride of 155 miles on Sunday the 28th.
The rest of my weekend riding will be 80-90 miles in length in Yorkshire (chain gang) and about 60 miles in length (Manchester)
Monday: 4x5min
Tuesday Chaingang
Wednesday: rest
Thursfay 2*20min
Friday rest
Saturday: training ride
Sunday rest.
When I go back to Manchester in September my training will most likely change.
Saturday - 2x20, TT or Chaingang
Sunday - normal ride
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 4x5min
Wednesday - tempo
Thursday - 2x20
Friday - rest
I think you assume I'm doing 100+ mile every week, I've only done 3 100+ mile rides this year compared to 20+ I might have done already by this time last year.
My weekend riding this summer has either being a TT or focused on some sort of training that is speed training, if I find a chaingang is not pushing me I'll ride off the front.
Yesterday, the chaingang I was holding 187HR and just about hanging off the back, I found that good training. It was 70 miles for me because I can't avoid adding 24 miles to/from the meeting point.0 -
in the olympics in the velodrome wiggo only does 15 ish miiles?? but he trains for the longer distances making him one of the most usefull team persuit riders so obviously longer distances can helproad- Trek 1000
XC trail anthem X4
school and shops- orange P7 single speed0 -
Are you for real?
You say look at titel and I did, it says your not doing anything competative this year, not next so I assumed you were asking about what effect your planned rides would have on next years performance.
I notice in other posts you have done you ask questions then answer them yourself mostly or argue with replies so I guess I should have known better.
Oh by the way maybe there are differnet types of chain gang but if 80 miles I would call it through and off and certainly not a chain gang, unless of course you are so good you can average 30mph for 80 miles.0 -
Since when does a group ride have to average 30mph to be called a chaingang?
I live 12 miles from the center of york, the chaingang start from the center of york, therfor to/from the square total 24 extra miles on top.
The actual chaingang usually lasts for around 40 miles when one gets going.
I've never answered my own question.
I still don't get your post wondering why I'd need to do 100+ mile ride.0 -
Think of the training effect like running sand through a sieve, except you have different sieves for your different training. Long slow miles stay with you longer (ie run out of the sieve more slowly) and short fast training runs through a lot faster. Net impact is that if you are only going to do long slow miles then you will loose all of the speed you have built up. That is not a problem through and expecting to try and keep all of your speed all year round is not realistic. Net impact is I would suggest you get out and do whatever you want for the next few months and enjoy your riding and set yourself a date to start back in the serious training based on when you want to start racing again. Something like 10 to 12 weeks before your first race.
ps
if the question was specifically around training for racing, then unless you are racing MTB marathons or are a pro then 100 mile training rides are not a good use of your time and you should be cutting the distance down and putting more effort into higher intensity work.0 -
I tell what you want to do, throw that friggin HR monitor in the bin, and learn to ride on feel.
HR data can be great, if you use it correctly, but it seems that you take it as gospel, and IMO, thats not the best way to do things, stop focusing soley on HR.
As for the rest of the stuff, freehub, you are going to do exactly what you want to do, regardless of what anyone says, you've had a SHEDLOAD of input, not only on here, but also on the TT forum, and you STILL aren't listening.0 -
You are wrong, I am listening.
If I was not listening would I be doing 2x20? If I was not listening would I not be doing long rides?
You know very well I have cut the long rides out, 80 miles maybe long but it's unavoidable if I want to go on a good training ride with other people.
If I was not listening would I be taking plenty of recovery?
I am listening...
Taking HR as gospel? Don't know how you came to that conclusion but it's not an accurate conclusion that's for sure, if I took it as gospel on the 2*20 today I'd surely be using a HR monitor??
Just because I am going to do a 150 mile ride next weekend does not mean I am not taking notice.
I'm not a pro cyclist, and as with everyone I only live once, why should I forfeit the one single big ride of the year that every other year has being the highlight of just enjoying cycling.
Every other weekend I've being doing training or time trials, not long rides, this is one single ride that people seem to multiply by x amount of numbers and assume I do it every week.
If I was not trying to train, would I bother with time trial position? Would I even bother with intervals?
No I'd just try ride at 20mph average everywhere.
I have 2 more Time Trials planned this year.
24th September and the 1st October, both are 25 miles, with the exception one is a 2up.
On the 10th september I go back to Manchester and will hopefully have access to the computrainer again, the majority of my training will be focused on those time trials specifically, same for today's training.
Next Sunday is going to be the last long ride I do this year, and probably the only long ride I've done in the past 3 months, I am doing it because it's enjoyable.0 -
danowat wrote:freehub wrote:Taking HR as gospel? Don't know how you came to that conclusion but it's not an accurate conclusion that's for sure, if I took it as gospel on the 2*20 today I'd surely be using a HR monitor??
Because you mention HR, ALOT
Well I can assure you I don't use it as much as you think.
Just because I use it alot does not mean I train by it, yes I was using it on Tuesday, but I was not training by it I did not care what HR I was at, it was just interesting holding almost 190hr for about 25 mins.0 -
I need to know.
I am not doing anymore long rides this year, well unless you class 50 mile really long.
But this Sunday I do want to do the Tan Hill ride, I probably can recovery after 1 or 2 days that is what I usually notice, but even if my legs are fresh, will I be recovered from it?
Will this ride get rid of any benefit the intervals and other training I have done this week may have?
Will this ride mean my TT time 5 weeks from now will be dissapointing?
2-3 days after the long ride, will doing training suited for TT's be beneficial or will the long ride just erase any benefit?
It's only last fun ride I'd like to but if it means catastrophic consequences for TT in 5 weeks I might give it a miss
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freehub wrote:Murr X wrote:I feel there is little that anyone here can say that will change your mind on what you intend to do. As I have stated before if you ride long distances for fun then keep doing it but don't think that it will substitute hard training (which is not so fun).
Doing long rides at this time of year is not going to help you next year if you could be doing shorter more intense training with a purpose.
I can't help but feel that these questions have been answered before... No disrespect intended (seriously). If you really want to do well racing next year then do not waste time now. It takes a great deal of will and effort to be close to the best you can become - never ever forget that, this is not an easy sport to succeed in. Also I'm sure you can find local races at this time of year so get to them it is all valuable racing experience.
If you wish to succeed do not become another one who ends his season early every year always with great aspirations for the following season only to be looking for reasons and excuses not to compete and train properly when the next racing season unfolds... then blaming something for why things have not worked out. This is not how one becomes an athlete.
The defensive attitude that you have showed in the above posts leads me to feel that you are looking for somebody to say "yes" to what you enjoy doing. If you start up a thread asking for advice please show respect for those who reply and are not intending to offend you.
You may enjoy long rides but you must make your mind up and realize that you can not accomplish everything so choices and sacrifices must be made. Are you a cut throat super motivated competitive cyclist who aims to go well out of his comfort zone and climb as high up the ladder as he can? Or are you a leisure cyclist with little desire to compete or get the most from yourself as you can? The two lifestyles are not compatible, being a good cyclist is not easy (or fun much of the time) and whatever choice you make can only ever be up to you.
Murr X
I am going to do one long ride of 155 miles on Sunday the 28th.
The rest of my weekend riding will be 80-90 miles in length in Yorkshire (chain gang) and about 60 miles in length (Manchester)
Monday: 4x5min
Tuesday Chaingang
Wednesday: rest
Thursfay 2*20min
Friday rest
Saturday: training ride
Sunday rest.
When I go back to Manchester in September my training will most likely change.
Saturday - 2x20, TT or Chaingang
Sunday - normal ride
Monday - rest
Tuesday - 4x5min
Wednesday - tempo
Thursday - 2x20
Friday - rest
I think you assume I'm doing 100+ mile every week, I've only done 3 100+ mile rides this year compared to 20+ I might have done already by this time last year.
My weekend riding this summer has either being a TT or focused on some sort of training that is speed training, if I find a chaingang is not pushing me I'll ride off the front.
Yesterday, the chaingang I was holding 187HR and just about hanging off the back, I found that good training. It was 70 miles for me because I can't avoid adding 24 miles to/from the meeting point.
You say in your opening post 'do i need to do speed training?' then looking at your weekly lists you have loads of excersises that I would call speed training in there...???
However I am really impresed at your stats so I guess your post is worth it.0 -
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What stats?0
