Time for the Plastic Bullets?

symo

As the title says, is it time the Met stopped being nice and let the kids have some fun by firing plastic baton rounds at the scum.?[/list]

joelsim

Yep, let the scum have it. The less of them around the better. And the parents.

Too old for this

Why waste perfectly good plastic, plenty of metal rounds to use up.

dilemna

Tear gas, pepper spray, water canon, cattle prods, plastic bullets, real bullets all should have been used by now. Once the bodies start piling up the rioting thieving scum might think twice.

FoldingJoe

How about this:

About 1 min onwards:

Bow Street B*****d

Gazzaputt

Tear gas as well.

pst88

I don't know why it's taken the police so long to even consider it. Clearly that little plastic shield and a baton aren't enough. The rioters are shooting at the police with real guns now and they're powerless to fight back. How long are they going to let this go on for? They should be using the full arsenal available to them. No doubt it's against the rioters' human rights.

RowCycle

Anyone know what they are rioting about? I haven't managed to work it out.

pst88

They are rioting because they can. They know they can get away with it with no consequences and noone will try to stop them.

mudcow007

dont use plastic or metal rounds, use phosphorous.....that would give em something to think about

chadders81

The fact is that if they started hitting these kids with batons and sending them away with broken arms, this would stop immediately.

Let the dogs have a proper go as well.

notsoblue

Wow, what a thread. People suggesting shooting kids, breaking their arms and setting dogs on them. What the f**k is wrong with you?

In places like Clapham, all the police needed to do was stop the small groups from gathering around and looting. They just needed to be a presence and stop the crowd from forming in the first place.

The Rookie

Sounds easy, but without massive numbers on the streets the Police can't keep breaking up the groups, only for them to wander off and tweet/BBM another meeting place, a more forceful breaking up involving some pain and discomfort would probably send them home thinking it's not worth it, exactly what they should have been taught by their parents 10 years ago anyway.

What we are seeing now is Youths who have done nearly all their living under a Labour "government" (using the word loosely rather than literaly) - no surprise they have no sense of responsibility then.

Simon

MonkeyMonster

The Beginner wrote:

What we are seeing now is Youths who have done nearly all their living under a crappy parenting household (using the word loosely rather than literaly) - no surprise they have no sense of responsibility then.

Simon

ftfy

asprilla

I think attitudes are pretty galvanised across country on this one. To quote the FB status of a friend of mine:

Now, I live in Brighton, read The Guardian and occasionally think that Ed Miliband isn't a complete knob. But when a Special Constable who works in my office asked for the next couple of days off to man his local nick, my precise response was "Definitely. Go and fuck some people up."

The Rookie

"Use your nightstick officer".......(Dan Akroyd as Louis Winthorpe III in Trading places).

Simon

notsoblue

The Beginner wrote:

What we are seeing now is Youths who have done nearly all their living under a Labour "government" (using the word loosely rather than literaly) - no surprise they have no sense of responsibility then.

Myopic labour bashing aside, you think the best way to deal with this problem is to shoot the youths?

Eh?

Again, what the hell is wrong with you people.

asprilla

notsoblue wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

What we are seeing now is Youths who have done nearly all their living under a Labour "government" (using the word loosely rather than literaly) - no surprise they have no sense of responsibility then.

Myopic labour bashing aside, you think the best way to deal with this problem is to shoot the youths?

Eh?

Again, what the hell is wrong with you people.

Depends what problem you are dealing with; is it the current violence, looting, arson and destruction of property that is plaguing the streets of our cities each evening, or is it the underlying societal issues that are leading to the riots?

Baton rounds will help one, but not the other and in the short term I'm only interested in solving one problem at a time.

vorsprung

The reason that the police don't spray the streets with rubber bullets is that it is possible to miss the target and injure someone who doesn't "deserve it"

I am not surprised but I am saddened to see the Max Hastings views widely held by posters on this forum

Initialised

The scariest part of this is that anyone who tries to explain it based on socio-economic factors is immediately branded as 'condoning' it then go on to advocate an increase of police state tactics.

I think of it like rat and locust swarms. Too many breed, eventually it spills over and causes chaos.

Some one describing the incidents in Manchester described it as Shameless. You can say that the TV series of the same name hasn't been warning us that this was coming.

joelsim

There was an instance last night of youths trying to loot an Oxfam. really there is nothing we can do for people like that. Get rid of them. Utter scum. The parents too should be held responsible for any damage, and if locked up the parents should be made to pay for the upkeep of their kids and if that means they have to sell their houses/plasmas etc etc then so be it.

Or lock them up and throw away the key. I've totally had enough of disaffected, lazy scumbags/gangs with their criminal tendencies. These people are a blight on society.

joelsim

notsoblue wrote:

Wow, what a thread. People suggesting shooting kids, breaking their arms and setting dogs on them. What the f**k is wrong with you?

In places like Clapham, all the police needed to do was stop the small groups from gathering around and looting. They just needed to be a presence and stop the crowd from forming in the first place.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of these youths would not show you quite the same decency 'Bruv', as they mugged you, or stole your son's mobile, or beat up your mum, or assaulted your wife...

It is a societal issue, but if the parents won't do anything to control their kids then someone has to.

Gazzaputt

notsoblue wrote:

Wow, what a thread. People suggesting shooting kids, breaking their arms and setting dogs on them. What the f**k is wrong with you?

In places like Clapham, all the police needed to do was stop the small groups from gathering around and looting. They just needed to be a presence and stop the crowd from forming in the first place.

Nothing wrong just living in reality.

These kids are scum and deserve everything they get.

Blacktemplar

The situation has not been helped by decades of limp-wristed namby-pamby politicians and social engineers more worried about the "human rights" of scum than of decent hard-working people who are on the receiving end of this nonsense.

There is no respect for the rule of law any more, the police are seen as the enemy, and if a police officer has the temerity to either defend themselves against assault by some moron with a brick or a petrol bomb, or - god forbid - actually take some proactive steps to break things up before they get out of hand, then they are vilified by the media for a "disproportionate" response. And if they stand back, they get criticized for being too soft. Who would be a cop?

There was a senior police officer on the Beeb this morning who was basically saying that individual officers are afraid that if they are deemed to be using inappropriate force, they could be prosecuted and lose their livelihoods. Witness what happened in the wake of the G8 riots.

Yes, there are significant underlying social issues, but what we are seeing now is nothing but "f*ck you" criminality - because they can get away with it. I have absolutely no sympathy for those who participate in and perpetuate this behaviour - they deserve everything they get.

You can be absolutely sure that this would have been stepped on with considerable force in almost any other country in the world before now.

To those who criticise that attitude, I'm willing to bet you'd be at the head of the queue baying for blood if your home or business had been torched, or your family had been assaulted (or in the case of those three Asian youths, murdered). I know I would be.

I absolutely defend your right to hold that opinion (we're still a democracy, just), but I think if you took a wider poll across the country right now, you'd find very few people who would agree with you.

Someone else here said "fix one problem at a time - stamp out this infestation and then try and fix the underlying issues - good luck, they've been around for quite a while.

RowCycle

I've often thought we should have a license for breeding. All it takes is a few body parts, unfortunately one of them isn't the brain.

wheezee

notsoblue wrote:

Wow, what a thread. People suggesting shooting kids, breaking their arms and setting dogs on them. What the f**k is wrong with you?

In places like Clapham, all the police needed to do was stop the small groups from gathering around and looting. They just needed to be a presence and stop the crowd from forming in the first place.

Well said. Some people won't be happy 'til we're living under some kind of Police State.

The Media are simply feeding people's prejudices and fears. This place is becoming like the Cycling Wing of the Daily Mail.

woodford2barbican

From someone who knows:

Sir Hugh Orde, one of the only officers to have deployed plastic bullets, has spoken out against its use in London. As chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Orde – now president of Acpo – has deployed plastic bullets and water cannon against rioters.

He said: "I do not think it would be sensible in any way shape or form to deploy water cannon or baton rounds in London. Baton rounds are very serious bits of equipment. I would only deploy them in life-threatening situations. What is happening in London is not an insurgency that is going to topple the country. There are 8 million people in London and it is a tiny proportion doing this. They are gangs of looters and criminals and although it is concerning it has to be kept in proportion."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/0 ... NTCMP=SRCH

Jay dubbleU

woodford2barbican wrote:

From someone who knows:

Sir Hugh Orde, one of the only officers to have deployed plastic bullets, has spoken out against its use in London. As chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Orde – now president of Acpo – has deployed plastic bullets and water cannon against rioters.

He said: "I do not think it would be sensible in any way shape or form to deploy water cannon or baton rounds in London. Baton rounds are very serious bits of equipment. I would only deploy them in life-threatening situations. What is happening in London is not an insurgency that is going to topple the country. There are 8 million people in London and it is a tiny proportion doing this. They are gangs of looters and criminals and although it is concerning it has to be kept in proportion."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/0 ... NTCMP=SRCH

So to summarise the debate I was having with TWH a couple of days ago - its OK to use baton rounds in Norn Iron but not in London ?

Barry Nice

Use the dogs.

The reason so far they have not been a sucess is that they have been kept on their leashes. Your average police dog would be classed as an extreeme sociopath if a human, in my experience (one of my best friends has been a Police dog handler for about 15 years)

To account for Notsoblue's perfectly valid point of view I would not countenance just setting them loose but would suggest placing one in every electronic and sports store. There their benefit would show as they would not critically injure any assailant just imobilise them so they can be handed over to the leader of the dogs pack, the handler. It would take a very determined looter indeed to run the gauntlet of one of these things.

Family pet off duty my ar$e, only if you are in their family.

Note: I am only being half serious in this post, you decide which half

woodford2barbican

Jay dubbleU wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

From someone who knows:

Sir Hugh Orde, one of the only officers to have deployed plastic bullets, has spoken out against its use in London. As chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Orde – now president of Acpo – has deployed plastic bullets and water cannon against rioters.

He said: "I do not think it would be sensible in any way shape or form to deploy water cannon or baton rounds in London. Baton rounds are very serious bits of equipment. I would only deploy them in life-threatening situations. What is happening in London is not an insurgency that is going to topple the country. There are 8 million people in London and it is a tiny proportion doing this. They are gangs of looters and criminals and although it is concerning it has to be kept in proportion."

Yes, and that is obvious - they is Irish innit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/0 ... NTCMP=SRCH

So to summarise the debate I was having with TWH a couple of days ago - its OK to use baton rounds in Norn Iron but not in London ?

Gazzaputt

woodford2barbican wrote:

From someone who knows:

Sir Hugh Orde, one of the only officers to have deployed plastic bullets, has spoken out against its use in London. As chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Orde – now president of Acpo – has deployed plastic bullets and water cannon against rioters.

He said: "I do not think it would be sensible in any way shape or form to deploy water cannon or baton rounds in London. Baton rounds are very serious bits of equipment. I would only deploy them in life-threatening situations. What is happening in London is not an insurgency that is going to topple the country. There are 8 million people in London and it is a tiny proportion doing this. They are gangs of looters and criminals and although it is concerning it has to be kept in proportion."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/0 ... NTCMP=SRCH

So setting fire to peoples homes isn't life threatening? These scum are destroying local communitys .

Live rounds would be preferable but plastic will do.