Ideal bar width for 140mm all-mountain bike?

supersonic

If you never sit down, MBR.

captainfly

I think it depends on how wide your shoulders are mine are 59cm wide and the natural postition for my hands is roughly that distance or a little bit more so add 10cm per side for grips then I'm at 79cm (790mm) which is bloody wide and on my all marketing bike I run blackspire 808s w/60mm stem purely for comfort over distance (710mm hurt my wrists and elbows) though it has lead to the occasional catch on narrower trail :shock:

NatoED

hoodlum-z wrote:

If you put a slow moving blade down on alumiuium, or any other material, it would try and throw it out of your hand because the teeth would catch and jarr. Use a fast moving blade and put steady even pressure on the aluminium section and it will cut it. If anyone has tried this and it doesn't work then you aren't doing it properly. Obviously with a hacksaw you can leave your bars on the bike and the grip hides the cut anyway. For me, though, I'd rather use a powersaw so you can trim it slightly if needs be.

Experience and theory are two different things!

In my EXPERIENCE with carbon parts you HAVE to use the right tool for the job . carbon will split if you use a coarse blade . Carbon fibre has to have a shallow pitch to stop damage to the weave .

I'd always use the right blade for the right materiel as it's safer and easier . I don't need to use a power saw as I've never needed to . While using hand tools I've never experienced the blade "jumping" as I haven't bodged the tool I use .

hoodlum-z

Webster - actually the article said, seat-tube angle is the least important of all the geometric measurements. And by saying something is the least important isn't the same as saying 'it's not important,' just that it's less important than something else.

Also, I wasn't saying that the seat itself isn't important, because obviously it is. But the article said that if you find a frame that has the right head angle and all the other measurements that you want, don't worry because with the right seatpost and seat position you can find the right fit and overcome an undesirable seat angle.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. Sorry!

NatoED - yes, mate, a fine-tooth hacksaw is probably best bet for most people, but being a tradesman I have lots of power tools that I can make use of and know that they can also do the job in hand. As long as the end result is desirable, it doesn't really matter how it is achieved.

My thinking was that with a power saw you can trim a fine slither off that would be impossible with a hacksaw. Though, to be honest, most people wouldn't be so fussy!

hoodlum-z

Supersonic - your Carbon Zaskar looks nice. My mate has the same Mongoose also.

What are the Speed King tyres like? Do they fall between the Race and Mountain King, with regard to tread, or are they even racier than the Race King? Just wondered. Thanks.

NatoED

But your method will damage the integrity of the carbon and significantly weaken the carbon bars / seat post . It's like taking a sledge hammer when all you need is a toffee hammer.

what sets you apart as a "trades man " from not using the popper tool for the job? Why are you advocating incorrect information that could lead to actual harm to a person?

I'm surprised thats as a "tradesman" your suggesting we use the wrong tool for the job. I'm a qualified fitter and I'd always use the right tool for doing any work on an vehicle / implement.

P.s a file is used for fine adjustments ( much like a wood file should be used for trimming down after cuts. ) but as a joiner / chippy you should have known that.

hoodlum-z

It is common practice to cut such things as aluminium trim on a chopsaw when on a building site. If you are doing a one off cut then a hacksaw will do.

To be honest, carbon will cut cleanly on an electric mitre saw so I think you are over-egging it a bit to suggest that I am misleading people.

How would trimming the end of a carbon or aluminium bar 'lead to harm'?

At the very worst it would leave a ragged edge, which would be covered by the handlebar grips. However, as I've explained, a chopsaw leaves a significantly cleaner cut than a hacksaw so I don't see what the problem is?

How do you think they put the mitres on carbon tubes when making frames? They use power tools, not hand tools!

All I'm saying is, if you have a universal blade in your power saw, you don't need to go out and buy a carbon-specific blade just for one or two cuts. Fair enough if you are cutting carbon for a living, then go and get the correct blade.

Yes, a file can be used to make small adjustments, but, again, this would be slightly ragged and wouldn't be anywhere near as clean a cut as a power saw.

As a fitter I thought you'd know that a machine cut is cleaner than cutting by hand!

hoodlum-z

Lightweight Saw with universal blade for cutting wood, non-ferrous metal and plastic.

NatoED - the above comment was lifted from the Screwfix website from a Rexon mitre saw.

With regard to cutting, Carbon is similar to plastic.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rexon-sm2153a ... 230v/26532

getonyourbike

hoodlum-z wrote:

getonyourbike - trust me, I'm a joiner by trade. Obviously a handsaw would be rough on carbon, but a wood blade in a chop saw, or mitre saw as some people call them, is spinning that fast it leaves a nice clean cut. With aluminium being relatively soft compared to steel you can still cut it no problem, especially if it's just a one off. It would definitely be a tidier job than doing it with a hacksaw.

I wouldn't really trust you as a joiner if you are working for me if you used the wrong tool for the job. Like has already said, get a blade designed for cutting these materials with a shallower pitch.

I agree with what NatoED said and will stick to what I said, use the right tool for the job.

NatoED

carbon is nothing like plastic as it's made up of individual strands weaved and bonded together . if the individual strands are damaged then it can cause the fibres to unravel and deform and the entire length is made weaker . thus the structural integrity of the entire structure is risked .

Carbon saws are either shallow pitched (even shallower than alu) or have no teeth and are an abrasive strip .

btw you can get carbon blades for power saws too .

NatoED

as a fitter i know that the right tool or blade is need to do a safe job . getting a clean cut is more to do with number of teeth and pitch rather than how a job is done . I've got so clean cuts by hand just as much as with a power saw.


factories that make carbon use friction blade machines to cut the carbon that are toothless or they laser cut

Shaggy_Dog

A couple of years ago 660mm was considered the perfect trail width. I personally like a 685mm Easton or Bontrager bar but have tried bars up to 750mm. As far as I'm concerned a bar can be as massive as you want but if you get problems threading them through tight trees then obviously you've hit the limit. Even 685mm can be too wide in certain sections of Leigh Woods and the Forest of Dean. I ran 630mm risers last summer and didn't suffer for it on the downs, although it took some getting used to initially.

hoodlum-z

Getonyourbike - I'm not asking you to trust me, I don't need to prove anything to anyone on here. And as for the right tool for the job - a mitre saw will cut aluminium and other materials except ferrous metals like steel. (Unless you put a steel-specific blade in)

When I said 'wood' blade in the electric mitre saw, I should have said 'universal' as that is what most of them come with. Regardless, a mitre saw will cut other materials so I don't see what all the fuss is about?

NatoEd - obviously carbon isn't the 'same' as plastic, but what I meant was it has got resin content and isn't going to be as hard to cut as steel for instance. Yes, carbon is very stiff and brittle, so it is different to plastic in that respect. Maybe plastic wasn't the right word I was looking for.

I am not suggesting that a universal blade is the correct blade for cutting carbon, but I am saying for a one-off cut or two cuts you could get away with it if you are very careful. That doesn't meant to say that I just use any tool for any job, on the contrary, I am very selective and like things done to a very high standard. That is why I suggested using something other than a hacksaw as it is harder to cut straight by hand than it is with a machine.

We will just have to disagree on this one. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. No probs!

NatoED

it's not just me saying you should never cut carbon with any old blade , it carbon manufacturers . it only takes one cut to destroy carbon fibre . you should see the quantity of rejected carbon parts due to bad cuts in the factories.

i'm not saying don't use a mitre on aluminium that's fine

carbon is a big no no as it also produces a large amount of heat which will effect the weave and bonding agents add that to the damage course teeth will do to the fibres it's is the only practice to use the right dedicated blades ( such as a ceramic blade or carbon cutting bade) to guarantee a structurally sound carbon part.

as a side note some top end companies won't even trim the weave that potrudes into the inner diameter of the bars to reduce the chances of it splaying over time .

BlueAdvocate

Recently slapped Easton Havoc stem (50mmm) and bar (750mm) on my Remedy. Always thought I could cut down the bar a little if needed. really starting to love the set-up; whether its the bar or stem or both but it just feels right. I actually think the short stem is more important, the larger stems just feel so "wafty"... bloody tillers. Comes down to personal preference I guess in the end.

Ryan Jones

Quite enjoyed my 80mm stem and 710mm bars on my RZ120, a huge and more confidence inspiring improvement to the bike with no drawbacks I've come across. Having said that just the stem on the stock 660mm bars changed it a lot, the bars just put that grin on my face !

Bar shape is another thing to consider, though I really shouldn't say it

hoodlum-z

Ryan - don't know about your Cannondale, but the stock FSA bars on my RZ140 were marked up as 660, but are actually 680 when I throw a tape measure over them!

Blue Advocate - what do you think of your Remedy then, they look nice bikes? The new Trek Slash looks a real weapon for 2012.

720 is winning the poll up to now! Thanks everyone who voted.

Ryan Jones

It came with stock cannondale bars at 660mm wide measured, it's the 120mm travel version

Either way I didn't vote as bar width is your choice and you should go with what you feel is best, not what everybody else says. I only can account for what worked for me, and this could give you idea's but nothing

ride_whenever

Everyone should just start on 800mm bars and work down from there!!!

My gf rides my bike with 800mm bars and she doesn't mind it too much.

bike-a-swan

I have some 800s on the 456. I had intended to go with 760s but they were out of stock, so I thought 'i'l buy the longer ones and cut them down'. I discovered I actually quite like them! Still thinking about taking a bit off the ends, but that's a job for another day. They are noticeably more difficult to get round trees!

Shortest ones are on the winter bike, 580, just for something different. The lobster has some sensible ones, 685 seems to suit me as a good all round length.