Ideal bar width for 140mm all-mountain bike?

hoodlum-z

My Cannondale RZ140 came with a 680 bar and 100mm stem, so I decided to make it handle better downhill and was thinking about 711 bar and 70mm stem. When I went on CRC website I found a 737 Sunline V1 Bar and 50mm Sunline stem at half price so ordered these instead. The Stem was available in 65mm length, but as it was a chunky and heavy stem I decided to go for the shorter 50 mm version.

The bike is awesome downwards, but pops wheelies when climbing steep hills, so I have since stuck a 70mm Truvativ AKA stem on. (Although I haven't been out with this on yet.)

I've also replaced the inline seatpost with a Joplin 3 with 20mm or so setback so my new riding position should be roughly the same distance from seat to bars, just set further back.

When I went out with my original bar and stem back on, there was definitely less control.

I've read a few articles that say 711 is the perfect trail width, but the trend seems to be that bars across all categories are getting wider due to the increased control of modern suspension and higher speeds this gives us. The 2012 specialized range has quite a few bikes, Stumpjumpers for instance, with 720s.

What I want to know is: should I go for 711, 720 or leave my bars at 737? The bar end plugs add another 5mm or so.

Advice please!

jairaj

The correct set-up will be entirely personal to you. It is not really dependant on the type of bike. But more to do with the geometry and your measurements and your personal preferences. So its hard to give you definitive numbers and answers as they don't really exist. Its all about finding a good balance between the two extremes.

Thewaylander

tough call, but depending on shoulder size i'd sy between 720-760

Anonymous

At least a metre, I reckon.

supersonic

jairaj wrote:

The correct set-up will be entirely personal to you. It is not really dependant on the type of bike. But more to do with the geometry and your measurements and your personal preferences. So its hard to give you definitive numbers and answers as they don't really exist. Its all about finding a good balance between the two extremes.

This. I use 640mm bars. That is not even on the list!

Go what feels right to you, not what other people think. You can always cut wider bars down remember.

nicklouse

it is rider preference not bike.

getonyourbike

The stock set up on my Carrera Fury was a 680mm wide bar with a 90mm stem. I changed to a Sunline V1 745mm wide bar with a 19mm rise and a Superstar Zephir 70mm stem. The handling seems far more assured downhill manuals are easier and it's just generally far more responsive but I haven't had any problems with the front end coming up on the climbs. I have had to cut the bars down to 720mm to fit through the trees and for me being quite small it feels even better. I voted for 720mm. I use it for DH, XC, BMX track fun and DJ with an Enduro coming up too so it's used for everything. I've had to find a comprimise between DH and XC and I think I've found it.

I hoped that helped in some way

hoodlum-z

Supersonic - I didn't put any narrower than 680 on the list as I didn't really have cross-country bikes and hardtails with 100mm of suspension in mind. And the same reason I didn't go wider than 740 is because I wasn't really thinking of pure Downhill machines.

As my Sunline's are 737, I can only cut them down as I don't have access to a lathe to make some extensions!

Hope the poll is wide-ranging enough for what most people consider to be suitable for an all-mountain bike?

And I would say that width is definitely relevant to suspension travel as the faster you go the more control you will need. Obviously this doesn't matter on a road bike because tarmac is smooth.

Cheers and thanks for the replies.

Anonymous

hoodlum-z, the poll is pointless, as a few have pointed out.

supersonic

I didn't put any narrower than 680 on the list as I didn't really have cross-country bikes and hardtails with 100mm of suspension in mind.

Eh? Is personal preference! (this is the crux of the discussion). Sub 680 bars are not just for XC bikes! I own a few bikes, of differing types and prefer narrower bars.

Anonymous

And think of poor little Jay 12, on his DH bike. He's not going to have massive 780mm bars, cause he's 12, he's only ickle!

Thewaylander

supersonic wrote:

I didn't put any narrower than 680 on the list as I didn't really have cross-country bikes and hardtails with 100mm of suspension in mind.

Eh? Is personal preference! (this is the crux of the discussion). Sub 680 bars are not just for XC bikes! I own a few bikes, of differing types and prefer narrower bars.

We've been through this on forums before, there is no such thing as personal preference, and any one going against the wider is better is just wrong now :P

meesterbond

Erm, why don't you just move everything inboard a cm or so before buying new bars / getting the hacksaw out?

Firstly though, get out a ruler and see just how big the difference between 737mm, 720mm and 711mm really is.

lawman

ive got 710's atm, but would like to try some 750mm easton havocs, the kcnc's i have atm feel great, but i feel the extra 40mm would be even better, and give the option to cut down if i feel they're too wide, id say 750mm is the max on a trail bike, unless youre a huge geezer

hoodlum-z

Lads, I'm not saying you can't have narrow bars on a big-hit bike and wide bars on a cross-country bike. I'm just saying that most all-mountain bikes come with approx 680mm bars as standard, or the next size up or down.

Yeehaamcgee - why is the poll pointless? I've listed most of the popular sizes so don't see how you can say that. Obviously a child's bike is going to have size-specific bars, but that isn't what we are supposed to be talking about.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. That's all well and good, but if you are going to say it is pointless then back it up with something rather than being sarcastic.

It is pointless because...

Anonymous

hoodlum-z wrote:

Yeehaamcgee - why is the poll pointless? I've listed most of the popular sizes so don't see how you can say that.

Because it's personal preference.
You may as well what shoe size "typical" AM riders wear.

nicklouse

It is pointless because Handlebar width is a personal choice and a matter of comfort. Most people are happy with their hands about shoulder width apart but experiment with want you prefer and choose what works best for you.

hoodlum-z

yehaamcgee - yes, you are right, it is personal preference, but you could say that about any poll. So why bother having polls at all?

The reason I put a poll on is so I can find out what the general consensus is with regard to 'all mountain bars'. The title of the question does state this.

If I'd put what is the best size mountain bike bar - everyone would have told me that it depends on 'what type of mtb'. So whatever I put people will find fault; you just can't win these days!

If anyone is riding an all-mountain bike with narrow bars they are either going too slow or they are stronger than the Hulk.

The reason I haven't just moved the grips in is because I didn't want to cut the ends and I haven't got an old pair laying around anymore.

warpcow

hoodlum-z wrote:

If I'd put what is the best size mountain bike bar - everyone would have told me that it depends on 'what type of mtb'. So whatever I put people will find fault; you just can't win these days!

Start riding with other people, or stop listening to idiots. Either way your problem is solved.

Otherwise re-read meesterbond's post.

nicklouse

hoodlum-z wrote:

If I'd put what is the best size mountain bike bar - everyone would have told me that it depends on 'what type of mtb'. So whatever I put people will find fault; you just can't win these days!

no it would have been the same it depends on YOU.

If anyone is riding an all-mountain bike with narrow bars they are either going too slow or they are stronger than the Hulk.

bollocks

take a 5' lass on a 140mm AM bike. what size bars would she need? the same a some 6' rugby playing lad? No she would not.


you are looking to correlate info that just does not.

hoodlum-z

Nick so everyone keeps on saying it is the person and not the bike, why then do manufacturers increase bar width relative to travel? Why is the industry trend going with wider bars? Usually these things are done to make progress, not go backwards.

When I did back to back runs with a wider bar versus narrow bar, the wider bar had loads more control and confidence due to the extra leverage.

And I'm sure just because you get a woman downhill champion, it doesn't mean that she has extra-skinny bars, she just has them proportionally smaller than a giant male downhill champion. She would still have wider bars than a cross country racer of the same size and build. Plus a woman wouldn't be as fast as a man downhill because she hasn't got the same strength, like for like that is.

Obviously when I asked what size bar people prefer, I meant for a man. Sorry, perhaps that should have been clearer.

And for the record, I do ride with other people, haha!

supersonic

There is a trend of larger bars no doubt - but I see them on standard trail bikes too, not just DH and AM bikes. The thinking is it creates more leverage and control, but is not always the case - too wide for your dimensions and it splays your arms out which can reduce the extra control you are after. I also prefer the narrower, more powerful feeling stance.

Standard 10 years ago on almost all bikes was 590mm.

The other thinking is that you can cut the bars down to suit - so if you spec a large bar it can cover a lot of bases.

getonyourbike

Everyone is different, yes but you can still do the poll on bar width. Some guys are just out to cause trouble unfortunately.

nicklouse

you would be surprised how many bars get cut down.

the fashion is for wide bars people want wide bars so makers fit them as without people would not buy the bike as they want to be fashionable.

yes wide bars and short stems go together but still if you are too close to the bars how are you going to ride the bike.

watch this and see what i am on about

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesd ... -2011.html

be aware that PB is based in a Freeride/DH area but the basics still apply.

Raymondavalon

+1 on rider preference

I like wider bars to be honest, I have 4 bikes and they're all configured quite differently

My Felt Compulsion 140 AM has a 680mm riser bar with a 90mm stem with 7º rise
The On-One 456 150mm hardtail has a 717mm riser bar with 40mm stem, 0º rise
The Cove Handjob XC hardtail has a 640mm flat bar with 120mm stem 7º rise
The Diamondback M40 all rigid hardtail has 640mm riser bar with 120mm stem and 8º rise

All very different, but the Felt and OnOne get ridden properly whereas the HandJob is a bike I tend to loan to friends and the girlfriend and the Diamondback is a rigid commuter

jon87uk

For me I have just started using 780mm Fatbars and I think that they are great, however, they might get cut down a little in time. I'm quite broad and felt the original 710mm bars were a little cramped at times. This is down to personal preference though, the rise can make more of a difference as it changes were your weight is in the bike a lot.

Anonymous

jon87uk, check out the video Nicklouse linked to. It rather excellently explains why a wide bar can make a big difference in rear/forward weight shifts.

hoodlum-z

nicklouse, that was a great video, mate. Thanks.

The key point that I noted was that a wide bar brings your body forward, and I can honestly say that didn't cross my mind until now. I was merely thinking of stem reach when considering where your body is placed across the bike.

Someone said earlier that I was talking 'bollocks' when I said you can't ride fast with narrow bars. Obviously there are guys out there who are awesome riders and run a narrow bar and hit top speeds. What I meant is this: I did three fast runs on the same hill with my wide bar on and felt in control. When I tried the same hill at the same speed with my original narrow bar on, I didn't feel safe and if I tried it again I would have reduced my speed. Yes, you can ride fast with narrow bars, but most riders will definitely benefit from a wide bar and be faster and safer in a like-for-like scenario.

On the other hand, if you aren't bothered about blazing the downhills then a narrow bar is just fine.

720 seems to be winning the poll up to now. I was going to vote for that myself too, so it would probably be what I'd go for if I bought another set of bars. However, for the sake of 17mm, I might as well leave my 737s as they are.

For anyone cutting down their bars, you could use a chop saw if you want a nice clean cut; a wood blade should cut aluminium and carbon no problem. ** I don't mean a handsaw - but an electric mitre saw or 'chopsaw' **

getonyourbike

hoodlum-z wrote:

For anyone cutting down their bars, you could use a chop saw if you want a nice clean cut; a wood blade should cut aluminium and carbon no problem.

Hell no! A wood blade is really coarse and would kill carbon for sure and it wouldn't be very good for alu either. You might be alright with a metal cutting blade but you're safer just getting the hacksaw out.

nicklouse

hoodlum-z wrote:

nicklouse, that was a great video, mate. Thanks.

thanks

Someone said earlier that I was talking 'bollocks' when I said you can't ride fast with narrow bars.

thanks but you were not looking at the whole picture. too many people get too focused on one thing.

On the other hand, if you aren't bothered about blazing the downhills then a narrow bar is just fine.

No see the video.

For anyone cutting down their bars, you could use a chop saw if you want a nice clean cut; a wood blade should cut aluminium and carbon no problem.

total bollocks.

try reading some of the info in the tech links about cutting carbon. the finest (highest number of teeth per inch) blade you have and no less than 32TPI.

supersonic

What I meant is this: I did three fast runs on the same hill with my wide bar on and felt in control. When I tried the same hill at the same speed with my original narrow bar on, I didn't feel safe and if I tried it again I would have reduced my speed. Yes, you can ride fast with narrow bars, but most riders will definitely benefit from a wide bar and be faster and safer in a like-for-like scenario.

Basically your personal preference is for a bar around 720mm, but I still disagree that for 'most' riders wider is better. For many, it may may make things worse, especially those of narrow shoulders and short upper torsos. I've seen kids riding near 800mm bars, and are sawing all over the place as is just too big for them. For some, narrower may be better!

Best thing to do is experiment, which you have done and see what suits.

Other things to take into account is width of the trails!