Voeckler

Bronzie

Now that he at least considers himself a GC contender, I can't see him getting away into his signature day-long breaks anymore. Has he shot himself in the foot with his performance this year?

I can't see him being a genuine contender unless he can sort his TT out.

moray_gub

Bronzie wrote:

Now that he at least considers himself a GC contender, I can't see him getting away into his signature day-long breaks anymore. Has he shot himself in the foot with his performance this year?

I can't see him being a genuine contender unless he can sort his TT out.

Not sure he would really consider himself a GT rider he found himself in yellow with a decent lead after the hit and run stage and did what was expected of him by defending it brilliantly. If Rolland is in the team next year and showing the same form i i reckon the team will be working for him for overall and Tommy will lose chunks of time to allow him to go in breaks.

iainf72

He's not a GC contender.

Rolland might be though.

inkyfingers

I'm with Iain, I don't think he considers himself a serious GC contender. He will be kept under a much tighter leash from now on and not allowed to gain a big lead on the GC in future. He has enlivened this tour but we mustn't forget that he got into a lucky break then benefited from the favourites dicking about in the Pyrenees. Besides, he'd need to massively improve his TTing to really have a chance and at 32 I think that's beyond him.

Hopefully he won't start trying to race like a GC contender as it would be a shame to lose his attacking style from the race. With a bit of luck he'll lose 20 minutes in the first week next year so that he can go on his usual suicide breaks

Pross

His TTing wasn't too bad, up there with most of the other GC contenders apart from Bert and Cadel. The difference is that he doesn't have the fall back of being a great climber to make that time back. I agree that he might have shot himself in the foot though as he won't be allowed one of those transition stage breaks in future. Rolland looks the real deal and who knows where he may have finished if he had a free rein this time? Then again, French TdF false dawns are much like Welsh rugby ones and never turn into reality as riders crumble under the weight of expectation.

rick_chasey

Puts Wiggin's 4th into a little context.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

Puts Wiggin's 4th into a little context.

I think they are different cases. Nor disrespect but Voeckler was basically gifted the yellow jersey because of the crashes and a lazy peloton, but fought like a demon to keep it. Wiggins got fourth by consistently riding with the leaders and TTing very well.

mididoctors

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Puts Wiggin's 4th into a little context.

I think they are different cases. Nor disrespect but Voeckler was basically gifted the yellow jersey because of the crashes and a lazy peloton, but fought like a demon to keep it. Wiggins got fourth by consistently riding with the leaders and TTing very well.

yeah different type of ride


thou I rate tommys as better a tad.... can tommy hang in without the jersey is the question for a top ten place?

takethehighroad

I think Rick's point is that Voeckler won't get a (multi) million pound deal next year with a team built around his GC hopes

RichN95.

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

I think Rick's point is that Voeckler won't get a (multi) million pound deal next year with a team built around his GC hopes

Although he probably does have close to a million euro deal with a team built around him already.

takethehighroad

Didn't he take a pay cut to stay with Europcar?

But I take your point, he'll definately get a pay rise next year

frenchfighter

Voeckler is a champion.

He was offered 800k Eur from Cofidis, rejected it, stayed with EC for 420k Eur. He makes in total about 750k Eur with sponsor stuff.

Chavanel gets 750k,
Fedrigo and Casar get 400k,
Peraud, 350k
Gilbert 1.2m,
Contador was on 4m at Astana and is on 5m at Saxo,
Each Schleck is getting 2m,

Source is a French newspaper - not sure which.

frenchfighter

Elysee Palace for Fr riders in TdF

takethehighroad

Who's the one in the pumps? Is that JC Peraud?

frenchfighter

Perrig Quemeneur (EC)...never heard of him. Rolland is top fella

campagone

I think there's more chance of Voeckler becoming a gc contender than Cancellara or Gilbert, he can just about hang on in the climbs.
It was agony watching him struggle on the Alpe Duez stage, I so much wanted him to hang on to the yellow. Man of the tour for me, though not forgeting Hoogerland's heroics.

calvjones

I can see him do well in hilly one week races with no TT. Not many of those I know, but he could win P-N for example.

Bronzie

calvjones wrote:

but he could win P-N for example.

Maybe ASO will reward his championship gurning efforts this summer with a TT Lite Paris-Nice next year.

iainf72

If the French wanted to help Tommy out, they would've pulled the camera filming him when he was by himself between the groups last Friday. He would've then engaged his little brain, drifted back to the Evans group and conserved some energy.

For me, he's just not a very smart rider. And that really puts me off, I can't stand tactically inept riders.

inkyfingers

Yes Iain, we know that...but he's just so godamned cute!

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

If the French wanted to help Tommy out, they would've pulled the camera filming him when he was by himself between the groups last Friday. He would've then engaged his little brain, drifted back to the Evans group and conserved some energy.

For me, he's just not a very smart rider. And that really puts me off, I can't stand tactically inept riders.

Ah, that's why you don't like Johnny.

Makes sense.

carl_p

To be fair the Director Sportif should have guided him better. Not that easy to think clearly when you are on the limit.

Slightly off topic but why did TV appear to get grief off the fans on Dutch Corner?

csp

Carl_P wrote:

To be fair the Director Sportif should have guided him better. Not that easy to think clearly when you are on the limit.

Slightly off topic but why did TV appear to get grief off the fans on Dutch Corner?

Hoogerland's crash

carl_p

I did wonder if it was that. Bit harsh mind.

jerry3571

Does anyone know what was his best previous TDF best placing in the GC??
This sudden jump seems to stink a little to me.
Nice bloke but this result stands out a little.

-Jerry

Ps- I have always been partial to seeing a rider ride on instinct even though that intsinct maybe be hugely flawed. If they all rode conservativley all the time then racing would be a little dull.

RichN95.

jerry3571 wrote:

Does anyone know what was his best previous TDF best placing in the GC??

18th in 2004 - the last time he wore the Yellow Jersey and bothered about his GC position.

calvjones

jerry3571 wrote:

Does anyone know what was his best previous TDF best placing in the GC??
This sudden jump seems to stink a little to me.
Nice bloke but this result stands out a little.

-Jerry

Ps- I have always been partial to seeing a rider ride on instinct even though that intsinct maybe be hugely flawed. If they all rode conservativley all the time then racing would be a little dull.

About 66th? I may be wrong if this doesn't include 2004 but then of course he was gifted many minutes.

I tend to the cynical but if the top guys are climbing 2-3mins slower than PantArmstrong, then Tommy V another 3mins down on the Alpe seems okay to me.

jerry3571

Just think that Voeckler with a new Team and new ambitions, means new methods of tuning performance.
There were a lot of french riders who were up there in the Giro too. I just hope it is the GC riders who are getting cleaner allowing the French to compete rather than the french getting tired of getting thier butts kicked and getting back on the wagon. I seem to think the french have rode the last decade with a lot less Pharmaceutical help than the rest. I'm sure to be proved wrong on that as placing any kind of hope in Professional Cyclists is always a flawed idea.

-Jerry

RichN95.

jerry3571 wrote:

Just think that Voeckler with a new Team and new ambitions, means new methods of tuning performance.

But he's not riding for a new team. He's been on that team for ten years.

mididoctors

iainf72 wrote:

If the French wanted to help Tommy out, they would've pulled the camera filming him when he was by himself between the groups last Friday. He would've then engaged his little brain, drifted back to the Evans group and conserved some energy.

For me, he's just not a very smart rider. And that really puts me off, I can't stand tactically inept riders.

hmmmm maybe but it wasn't a done deal they were coming back was it


ok I agree he persisted too long but if he let contador go and fell back to evans and they stayed away he was also off the podium because bertie could of come over the top?

andy evans and bertie

if one had interjected when vockler came across and was dropped on the telegraph that he shouldn't carry on I would give that POV more clout... wasn't until he was on the Galibier proper was it obvious he was not going to limit the loss so he could get on the descent

too late for hindsight...

I have thought over the situation he was in and I suspect he does regret not falling back earlier but its too easy to judge


for all he/we knew cadel had cracked and going back after he was first dropped at the same time as cadel wouldn't help him at all

think about it.

beating frank in the TT wouldn't matter from that group because cadel would come over the top. and he would have finished the tour in 4th

it was not until we knew they weren't getting away that it was obvious he had made a mistake...not until the col de telegraph and pineau dropped away did the "he has made a mistake" comments start appearing

I have cut him some slack over what happened there.... it wasn't totally dumb

Tom Butcher

Voeckler is an attacking rider - when it doesn't work it looks naive but if you look at his palmares it isn't bad and when you look at how high profile he is he's obviously doing something right.

As for him being a GC rider - with proper preparation then he can be a top 10 rider, possibly another top 5. When you look at some who target the GC - Nicholas Roche springs to mind - then Voeckler would be justified in having a crack at it.