What is a Sportive about?
Comments
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blackhands wrote:I'm not sure that the claim that a sportive is not a race has ever been tested in court. Just saying its not a race is not the acid test - which surely must be that if a list of finishrers with times achieved is published then the "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is a duck" ruling must surely apply.
Whether the participants treat it like a race or not, or just riding to get round, is irrelevant.
Quite. Many sportives are advertised to make them appear to be races, and of course there is timing and talk of 'course records' and the like. Ask anyone who sees a big sportive what they think is happening and they'll say it's a cycle race. The UCI even have a 'world championships' for sportives so good luck persuading a non-cyclist that they're not races.
Club cyclists are snooty about them for a number of reasons: we do these types of routes every week on club runs, why don't people just do a little research and come out on a club ride for free; the standard of riding is typically terrible because so many haven't bothered to learn the basic skills of group riding and just jump in a group of 100s of riders; joe public seeing the behaviour of riders on them assumes that it's a bike race and that makes it more difficult for us to organise our actual races where we need to get permission from police forces.vorsprung wrote:Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason.
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ThatBikeGuy wrote:Not sure how you can even compare a TT to a sportive, they require complete different mindsets surely?
Doing my first sportive this coming weekend, should be good fun, weather is supposed to be rubbish but i am doing it for the experience and to test myself on the course. It's not a race.
I'm not comparing a sportive to a TT, what I'm saying is there is no point to 'official' timing for sportives as the only cycle sport that really needs to time a rider over a distance is a TT. Even road racers don't worry too much about time over a course, they are only interested in beating the other guys lined up at the start.Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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why should cycling be all about racing
Here is a universally understood cycling axiom:
· Any time two or more cyclists of approximately equal ability share a ride, that ride will become an impromptu race.
And here are the universally understood corollaries to that axiom:
· At no point shall any party to that race state that a race is about to begin.
· At no point shall any party to that race acknowledge that a race is in progress.
· After the race, the loser shall decide whether to acknowledge the winner’s superiority, or to instead make a lame excuse.
· If the loser makes a lame excuse, the winner shall treat the aforementioned excuse as implicit acknowledgment of the loser’s loss, and may in fact treat said excuse as more valid than an explicit admission of the winner’s superiority0 -
It was great fun. I really enjoyed it.
Mistakes numbers 1 and 2 !0 -
markos1963 wrote:I'm not comparing a sportive to a TT, what I'm saying is there is no point to 'official' timing for sportives as the only cycle sport that really needs to time a rider over a distance is a TT. Even road racers don't worry too much about time over a course, they are only interested in beating the other guys lined up at the start.
Not everyone starts a Sportive at the same time due to the staggered starts.
The reason why the timing is in place is that although it's not a race, there is an element of competitiveness within the events.
Most people are naturally competitive, so just like that non competitive round of golf, or 5-a-side football - it's no different.
As people have said, people who ride Sportives are under no impression if they do well - that they'd be any good at racing, it's different.
But this is no different to someone who does well in a local RR - is unlikely to believe they'd do well in say the TDF.
What is doing well in a Sportive is another question, since we all know it's not a race. The result element just becomes very subjective, and ultimately there can be no bragging about the results. a round a Golf is a good example here... since if you hit a good round you are unlikely to brag about it afterwards, but you may get a few congratulations from your friends if you did well.Simon0 -
Anyway, a sportive is really a gathering of dentists with extensive headset spacer collections.
And Sky or Radioshack/Discovery kit !0 -
Sportives = shaved legs, overshoes and gels
Audaxes = beards, sandals and cake
NOTE ->
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Interesting article in todays Cycling+ mag regarding the crazy costs of UK sportives and the lack of VFM compared to Euro ones.Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?
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People really have a thing about people who have worked hard, managed to achieve a career, and hence a reasonable disposable income.dreamlx10 wrote:
And Sky or Radioshack/Discovery kit !Anyway, a sportive is really a gathering of dentists with extensive headset spacer collections.
Personally, I say - good luck to them. They probably don't have that much free time in their busy lives; so If they have the money to buy a top spec bike with matching gear that supports their TDF team, good for them! Let's face it, a Planet X isn't going to look as good as a Dogma on top of a Porsche LOL
This thread is becoming very British. Take a pop at anyone who has done something with their lives.
UK Sportives are expensive. But, if you look at most of the organizers, they are mostly charities.
When I did the Bath100 I got talking to one of the organizers, who basically said that Sportives are very popular and almost always sell out. They are also much easier to organize than a charity ball, and also raise more money for charity.
But I don't know the finances of the events, so it's hard to say what the actual cost of the event actually is... and how much profit is made just from the entrance fee. The Euro events might also get more sponsorship?Simon0 -
Take a pop at anyone who has done something with their lives.
Like Bankers,Dentists,and Lawyers who've spent their working lives screwing the rest of the country !0 -
mikebikemike wrote:interesting so it seems to be a fun day out where hopefully you're less likely to get flattened by cars due to the numbers of bikes. Polite racing against the clock stictly optional.
That's a good a description as any. For me it's the chance to go and do a good ride in an area I don't know (e.g. Dartmoor a few weeks back) where someone who knows the area will have chosen a much better route than I would have done. I like not having to keep referring to a map, the buzz of the event, and testing myself a bit against both myself and others. Sometimes it's fun sweeping through a nice bit of road in a largeish fast group.
Dunno why people are peering down their noses at it because it's not 'proper' racing. Why are they so concerned with what other people do for fun?0 -
LOL. Sounds like someone wishes they worked harder in schoolMrChuck wrote:
I knew it was those bloody dentists...dreamlx10 wrote:
Like Bankers,Dentists,and Lawyers who've spent their working lives screwing the rest of the country !Take a pop at anyone who has done something with their lives. Simon0 -
LOL @ the lawyer, dentists, and bankers part.
Get a really bad cavity, and see how happy you are when they fix it for you. Same with lawyers when you get hit by a car and the person doesn't want to pay up. Bankers are a bit of a different story, but not all are bad! They all worked hard to get where they are, don't knock them because their making more than you
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Q. What do you call 100 Lawyers at the bottom of the sea ?
A. A good start 0 -
dreamlx10 wrote:Q. What do you call 100 Lawyers at the bottom of the sea ?
A. A good start
You sound all bitter and twisted. Is it because you are poor, have bad teeth and a crap bike ? Well balanced, though, a chip on both shoulders.......now where did I put my Rapha silk scarf?0 -
There is a massive amount of snobbery about sportives. I'm 54 and spotrtives give me the incentive to accumulate 6000 miles of training a year and that keeps me fit enough to go and rdo rides like my forthcoming Raid alpine.
I've tried time trialling and I got bored. Sportives offer me the opportunity to push myself on some of the best and hilliest routes in the country. I ride hard because I try to set myself a target time. Not so different to riding a time trial really except the fact that the route is more exciting and I prefer to push myself over a long distance. Flat dual carriageway anyone or the best passes in the Lakes or Yorkshire Dales?0 -
I have found there to be a huge snobbery about sportives or even if your not in a club . I work away at times up to 1-2 months away so finding time when I can ride doesnt usually coincide with the local club so I use sportives to gauge my fitness throughout the year and do 1-2 audaxes. I have been on many sportives and seen club riders going hammer and tongs. I wonder from the posts above from the folk who say they race slating sportives etc actually find it a wee bit embarassing when ordinary folk like me "just on a sportive" saunter by them when they are blowing out the back! it may be a sportive but there is a competitive element to it wether its you against the clock or against mates etc in the end for me its only about getting out on the bike on some good roads and hopefully meet some good folk.0
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Is it because you are poor, have bad teeth and a crap bike ?
Not bad one out of three !0 -
MikeyO wrote:To all those above: That may be so for some of those who enter but not everyone, that's a gross generalisation. I've never owned a road bike and entered a sportive on a MTB and doing one on a road bike after owning it for about 2 months. At 6ft 3 and over 200lbs you really think there would any point whatsoever in me entering a race?
I agree that some people who take part in them take it way to seriously (Who buys £x thousand pound bikes and full replica Team Sky kit for whats called a "fun run") but please don't apply that to all of us.
To the bit in bold, yes why not? Height and weight aren't a problem as long as you find a flat course. As long as you are fit enough, quick enough and confident enough in your bike skills with 80 people around you no reason not to enter a race (or if not confident you can enter a time trial).
Any riders entering the Iron Mountain sportive on Sunday thinking they were 'racing' had a rude awakening. Due to some suspect scheduling they were going up Llangynidr mountain just as the final stage of the Ras went up there, I don't think any of the riders would have had any illusions about being in a race after that To be fair I think it is only a few who treat sportives in that way. To many the event itself is a challenge as they are almost always very hilly (more so than nearly any race) and give a chance to ride with others on a set route often in areas you wouldn't otherwise ride although I don't see the point in coughing up to ride on the same roads you can pretty much every week. 0 -
some of you need to get a grip.
I made a light hearted Jovial comment and five pages later you are still arguing about it :!:
get over it for gods sake.constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly0 -
dmclite wrote:dreamlx10 wrote:Q. What do you call 100 Lawyers at the bottom of the sea ?
A. A good start
You sound all bitter and twisted. Is it because you are poor, have bad teeth and a crap bike ? Well balanced, though, a chip on both shoulders.......now where did I put my Rapha silk scarf?
well DMCLITE , if you can justify a rapha silk scarf, one would assume you could afford to buy an image to use as your avatar ,that was`nt subject to copy right. that you obviously have`nt paid for.constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly0 -
sub55 wrote:dmclite wrote:dreamlx10 wrote:Q. What do you call 100 Lawyers at the bottom of the sea ?
A. A good start
You sound all bitter and twisted. Is it because you are poor, have bad teeth and a crap bike ? Well balanced, though, a chip on both shoulders.......now where did I put my Rapha silk scarf?
well DMCLITE , if you can justify a rapha silk scarf, one would assume you could afford to buy an image to use as your avatar ,that was`nt subject to copy right. that you obviously have`nt paid for.
OOhh, another witty, happy go-lucky post from your good self. Yawn.
Don't you get fed up being so miserable ?0 -
sub55 wrote:some of you need to get a grip.
I made a light hearted Jovial comment and five pages later you are still arguing about it :!:
get over it for gods sake.
no you didnt sub
your remark was 100% shooter mcgavin and you are rightfully getting your ar$e reamed for being so pretentious.0 -
Ezy Rider wrote:sub55 wrote:some of you need to get a grip.
I made a light hearted Jovial comment and five pages later you are still arguing about it :!:
get over it for gods sake.
no you didnt sub
your remark was 100% shooter mcgavin and you are rightfully getting your ar$e reamed for being so pretentious.
Another one! Sub55 is going to need a bigger keep net!0 -
Gotta laugh at these 'wannabe racers'. They have a go at a few local circuits and do OK, but then the realisation hits that they are miles away from the guys on the international circuits.
I guess this realisation of failure,makes them troll the Beginners section of a cycling forum to prove to the world that they are far superior to at least one crowd of people, namely Sportives riders.. LOLSimon0 -
springtide9 wrote:Gotta laugh at these 'wannabe racers'. They have a go at a few local circuits and do OK, but then the realisation hits that they are miles away from the guys on the international circuits.
I guess this realisation of failure,makes them troll the Beginners section of a cycling forum to prove to the world that they are far superior to at least one crowd of people, namely Sportives riders.. LOL
can you not see past your air of pretensiousness that the wannabees are you lot who wannabee like the tour pros but have the bike and 10% of the talent necessary.
why does snobbishness and looking down on others have to exist within cycling clubs, its pathetic.0 -
springtide9 wrote:Gotta laugh at these 'wannabe racers'. They have a go at a few local circuits and do OK, but then the realisation hits that they are miles away from the guys on the international circuits.
I guess this realisation of failure,makes them troll the Beginners section of a cycling forum to prove to the world that they are far superior to at least one crowd of people, namely Sportives riders.. LOL
Damn right. Theres a whole food chain:
Superstars > Top Pros > Rubbish Pros > Continental Pros > Domestic Pros > Top Amateurs > Half-decent amateurs > 3rd cats > 4th cats > sportive riders > skinny inactive people > fat inactive people > triathletes > people who are confined to a bed because they're so fat
As long as you can feel superior to someone, its okay.0
