What is a Sportive about?

briantrumpet

danowat wrote:

the wannabe racers on £5K Pinarello's huffing and puffing at 14mph

Isn't that part of the fun?

Pseudonym

briantrumpet wrote:

danowat wrote:

the wannabe racers on £5K Pinarello's huffing and puffing at 14mph

Isn't that part of the fun?

good point..

bakerstreet

Bozman wrote:

Money?
I guess that somebody somewhere is making a shed load of cash out of sportives.

Or..... are they for the weak willed, you've paid your money, you're in a large group, so there's no way that you're going to give-in on that 60/100 mile ride and look like a lightweight.

I paid £16 in advance for my fun route. Its £30 on the day, but I paid up on Thursday night and I still got in ok. I probably paid about £25 in fuel too plus a couple of bits for the bike.

The price for the epic and standard routes is ovbously more, but only by about a tenner I think.

I'm sure they make a profit on it, as ultimately that is what they are trying to achieve. However, the profit will depend on how many people they get on the day. They may get some rides where the struggle to break even!

You get goody bags if you finish which include a magazine, water bottle, horrible looking energy bar and a couple of other bits.

suze

sub55 wrote:

its a ego trip for wannabe racers who have`nt got the balls to enter a proper race.

+1

bompington

suze wrote:

sub55 wrote:

its a ego trip for wannabe racers who have`nt got the balls to enter a proper race.

+1

See what I mean?

springtide9

It's a group ride which just happens to be timed.

Yes some people consider it a bit of a race, but I don't see anything wrong with a little bit of competition to jeer you into pushing a bit harder.

I don't think many people who come in say the top 10% of a Sportive believe that they would do as well in a proper race; but in the same way I don't think many people who enter a local TT and get in the top 10% believe they would also get a similar result in an international event.

It's a bit of fun, and I'm not sure why this 'race discussion' keeps being regurgitated.

Oh yes, and the event organizers stating the events are hard!
Well they are trying to sell the event.. and not sure the event would do so well if they stated it was a breeze with no challenging climbs etc. I'm sure most people don't believe every bit of a sales pitch do they?

briantrumpet

suze wrote:

sub55 wrote:

its a ego trip for wannabe racers who have`nt got the balls to enter a proper race.

+1

Or even for people that don't wannabe racers, but enjoy a day out on a bike with lots of other people who like a day out on a bike. And don't mind paying money for it.

Ezy Rider

theres a lot of shooter mcgavin`s in this thread who are pouring scorn on those who dare not to have an interest in racing.

rodgers73

I've been riding for less than a year and I've done 3 sportives so far. I've also done similar distances unsupported, including Coast to Coast last w/e and a 4 day tour from Doncaster to Kent. I'm doing London to Paris unsupported next week.

So, I'm fairly new to the sport but have enough experience/confidence to do stuff without needing the route being signposted for me and my hand held all the way round etc. But I love sportives and I'm genuinely baffled by the criticism of them -

"They're a rip off" - dont enter then! Do an audax or plot your own route or turn up on the day and ride the same route for free. It doenst make it somehow unethical that the organisers charge for entry - mainly because entry is voluntary and the same roads remain open to the public on the same day. Genuinely dont get this grumble...

"They're for wannabe racers" - I do a lot of 10k runs and I try and finish them in as quick a time as I can. I have a PB that I'm always looking to beat. I dont look at the blokes ahead of me or running faster than me and sneer. If you want to ride fast then whats the problem? Has it occurred to anyone that they may actually be racing - against friends in the same event? Or against their own time from last year?

"Full of people on £5k bikes doing 14mph" - if the bloke can afford a £5k bike and he wants to buy one, then why not? Do we expect all Ferrari/Porsche owners to be Formula One drivers? He might only be riding at 14mph but he's probably enjoying using a cracking bit of kit while doing so, so where's the harm in that? Bizarre reverse snobbery!

I enjoy the sportives because all kinds of folk turn up for them. The atmosphere is usually great and whether you finish in five hours or ten you've still suffered the same and it's good to compare notes with other riders as you go along or at the feed stops. Or just to have a chat about bikes or whatever. It's similar to the 10k events and being part of a big occasion makes a nice ride even more enjoyable.

I'm planning on doing some audax riding soon and I'm sure I'll enjoy that too, but the small scale of the events means it will feel different. Not better or worse, just different. So when I want one sort of experience I'll do a sportive and when I want another, I'll try an audax or just plot my own route. But I wouldnt try and argue that all sportives are some sort of curse on cycling.

Anonymous

Each to his own. I race and also do Sportives, enjoy them both thoroughly. If you enjoy it, do it, whether its on a bonky old bike or a £5k cracker, doesn't matter, just being out on the bike is what matters.

vorsprung

rodgers73 wrote:

"They're for wannabe racers" - I do a lot of 10k runs and I try and finish them in as quick a time as I can. I have a PB that I'm always looking to beat. I dont look at the blokes ahead of me or running faster than me and sneer. If you want to ride fast then whats the problem? Has it occurred to anyone that they may actually be racing - against friends in the same event? Or against their own time from last year?

Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason. If you are giving it 100% then you won't be courteous to other road users. You will be a menace to yourself and others.

I would hope that riders would not take stupid risks just to beat their friends or their time last year....

springtide9

vorsprung wrote:

rodgers73 wrote:

Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason. If you are giving it 100% then you won't be courteous to other road users. You will be a menace to yourself and others.
I would hope that riders would not take stupid risks just to beat their friends or their time last year....

The majority of people doing Sportives aren't exactly young... so most probably are married with kids etc. In terms of takings risks 'racing on the road' - I don't think these people would be the type to take chances or are that dim. If people are looking to beat their friends or their time from the previous year, it would be done in a safe manner.
Think it's a bit insulting to imply that people are not bright enough to understand the difference between friendly competitiveness vs full on racing.

briantrumpet

rodgers73 wrote:

I enjoy the sportives because all kinds of folk turn up for them.

I think my favourite one is the chap on the right in the cardie on the MTB, and the next one who looks like he's just regurgitated his porridge. But it's typical of mix of folk on a sportive. All out for a day's fun and cakes. And raising £20,000 for Force. There were (as usual) good contingents from local cycling clubs.

Oh, sorry, that can't be right. It's all about wannabe racers who haven't got the balls to enter a race. My mistake.

mikebikemike

interesting so it seems to be a fun day out where hopefully you're less likely to get flattened by cars due to the numbers of bikes. Polite racing against the clock stictly optional.

For Audaxes do you need a special bike? Mudguards or something?

markos1963

vorsprung wrote:

Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason. If you are giving it 100% then you won't be courteous to other road users. You will be a menace to yourself and others.

I would hope that riders would not take stupid risks just to beat their friends or their time last year....

Umm I think you'll find cycle racing on open roads IS allowed, or perhaps that group of riders I marshalled last weekend was the fastest sportive in history?


I have no problem with sportives and have done a few but there are a few issues that I question. If it's not a race then why the 'official' timing? Surely the riders have watches/computers? The timing is there to massage the egos of wannabes who can't/won't race. Also the cost, some of these events are crazy, you could do a years audaxing for the entry fee of one sportive!

Each to their own I say and it's good to see people riding bikes, but if you want to test yourself over a long distance and against the clock get yourself to a 100TT and find out the truth.

pdstsp

But 100tt wouldn't normally be held on a meandering course through the hills would it? Surely that's part of the attraction - fantastic places to ride, probably on roads you don't normally ride on and a bit of semi-competitive keeping an eye on the time?

markos1963

pdstsp wrote:

But 100tt wouldn't normally be held on a meandering course through the hills would it? Surely that's part of the attraction - fantastic places to ride, probably on roads you don't normally ride on and a bit of semi-competitive keeping an eye on the time?

A TT is the only true test of time. NIce roads, lots of similar minded riders, different challenges are all great features of sportives. I just think timing is irrelevant on them, how can you feel good about doing a 4hr 100m sportive if you've tagged on to various fast groups to achieve it?

P_Tucker

sub55 wrote:

its a ego trip for wannabe racers who have`nt got the balls to enter a proper race.

This is TOP quality trolling, well done.

P_Tucker

Anyway, a sportive is really a gathering of dentists with extensive headset spacer collections.

danowat

mikebikemike wrote:

For Audaxes do you need a special bike? Mudguards or something?

Not at all, you see a wide range of machines on an audax, from retro steel audax machines, all the way up to full on carbon race bikes, I did a 107km audax this weekend on my Kuota Kharma.

Ezy Rider

to a lot of shooter mcgavin`s who believe its ALL about the racing,dont you think it becomes like a who has the biggest tackle competition and bragging rights, where for the rest, its all about having fun and enjoying yourself.

pdstsp

Yeah agreed to a point, but I don't think the majority of riders see their time in a sportive as comparable with a TT. A sportive has different attractions and not everyone sees the attraction of riding a TT. Each to their own. I know if I entered a tt I'd suffer like a dog, come last by a distance and never do one again, whereas with a sportive I'll suffer like a dog, not even look at my time but probably do one again as I enjoy the atmosphere and the course.

As for racing - not for me - came to cycling 10 years ago at 39 and while I've become pretty fit I certainly haven't got very fast! so I'd be off the back every time. I also am self-employed with average bike handling skills so the chances of crashing put me off too. Some of the macho posturing earlier in this thread seems to suggest that people like me are second rate cyclists, well, if we are then hey ho - I still enjoy myself. (And with a bit of luck I won't meet any of them on my wannabe rides)

briantrumpet

markos1963 wrote:

how can you feel good about doing a 4hr 100m sportive if you've tagged on to various fast groups to achieve it?

Can we keep the Schlecks out of this discussion, please?

Jay dubbleU

I enjoy sportives - I've done them on all sorts of bikes from my Genesis road bike to an MTB via a hybrid - if they are well organised they represent good value and a fun day out. Racing doesn't come into it unless its against the clock

ThatBikeGuy

Not sure how you can even compare a TT to a sportive, they require complete different mindsets surely?

Doing my first sportive this coming weekend, should be good fun, weather is supposed to be rubbish but i am doing it for the experience and to test myself on the course. It's not a race.

rodgers73

I guess when you've got to the stage where the distance alone is no longer daunting then you'll be more interested in your time. Hence the "official timing".

My first 100 mile sportive was genuinely about finishing and nothing else. Now I'm starting to look at my watch and see how quick I'm doing that sort of distance. I'm not racing, just seeing how I'm improving.

CrackFox

The Taupo Cycle Challenge, NZ's biggest cycling event, attracts around 12000 riders annually. The Challenge itself is your standard hilly 160km sportive. But the event also includes the Avanti Classic race which requires all entrants to have previously completed the Challenge in under 4.25 hours. And a few riders undertake the mega endurance event (1280km) hoping to qualify for the RAAM. So for some at least, the timing of a sportive can have some actual significance. For others, a good time in a sportive might encourage them to try their hand at racing or a TT or whatever.

However, most just ride to have fun or to beat personal targets. They all have a nice day out on their bikes, get to swap stories, have their legs and/or egos massaged, the proceeds go to local charities and everyone goes home happy. It encourages cycling and brings in a load of business for bike shops up and down the country.

vorsprung

markos1963 wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason. If you are giving it 100% then you won't be courteous to other road users. You will be a menace to yourself and others.

I would hope that riders would not take stupid risks just to beat their friends or their time last year....

Umm I think you'll find cycle racing on open roads IS allowed, or perhaps that group of riders I marshalled last weekend was the fastest sportive in history?

There's a big difference between an organized, marshalled race where all the participants have a license and a sportive.

The law sez:

Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991 states:

31(1) A person who promotes or takes part in a race or trial of speed on a public way between cycles is guilty of an offence, unless the race or trial:

(a) is authorised under the Cycle Racing on Highways Regulations 1960, AND

(b) is conducted in accordance with any conditions imposed, by or under regulations under this section.

For a time trial or bicycle race to be authorised, a promoter must give 28 days written notice to the police giving times, dates, routes, start, finish, maximum number taking part, arrangements for marshalling and supervision, and the rules of the competition.

All sportives claim to "not be a race" in order to avoid these regulations and insurance implications. if you race during one, you are breaking the law. The key point isn't that you are breaking the law The key point is that racing on open roads with other traffic on them and no controls is dangerous

springtide9 wrote:

In terms of takings risks 'racing on the road' - I don't think these people would be the type to take chances or are that dim. If people are looking to beat their friends or their time from the previous year, it would be done in a safe manner.

Well, I would hope so

springtide9

vorsprung wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

In terms of takings risks 'racing on the road' - I don't think these people would be the type to take chances or are that dim. If people are looking to beat their friends or their time from the previous year, it would be done in a safe manner.

Well, I would hope so

There is no need to hope Sportive riders are all high earning dentists and bankers remember LOL

blackhands

vorsprung wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

Actual cycle racing on open roads is not allowed and for good reason. If you are giving it 100% then you won't be courteous to other road users. You will be a menace to yourself and others.

I would hope that riders would not take stupid risks just to beat their friends or their time last year....

Umm I think you'll find cycle racing on open roads IS allowed, or perhaps that group of riders I marshalled last weekend was the fastest sportive in history?

There's a big difference between an organized, marshalled race where all the participants have a license and a sportive.

The law sez:

Section 31 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991 states:

31(1) A person who promotes or takes part in a race or trial of speed on a public way between cycles is guilty of an offence, unless the race or trial:

(a) is authorised under the Cycle Racing on Highways Regulations 1960, AND

(b) is conducted in accordance with any conditions imposed, by or under regulations under this section.

For a time trial or bicycle race to be authorised, a promoter must give 28 days written notice to the police giving times, dates, routes, start, finish, maximum number taking part, arrangements for marshalling and supervision, and the rules of the competition.

All sportives claim to "not be a race" in order to avoid these regulations and insurance implications. if you race during one, you are breaking the law. The key point isn't that you are breaking the law The key point is that racing on open roads with other traffic on them and no controls is dangerous

I'm not sure that the claim that a sportive is not a race has ever been tested in court. Just saying its not a race is not the acid test - which surely must be that if a list of finishrers with times achieved is published then the "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is a duck" ruling must surely apply.

Whether the participants treat it like a race or not, or just riding to get round, is irrelevant.