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TYRES, The price of!

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  • nozzacnozzac Posts: 408
    DF33 wrote:
    have you SEEN THE price of RAZOR blades?

    time we ALL made our own TO SAVE money!

    Actually that is a bad example. Fancy razor blades are insanely expensive.

    Capitalism does not mean we're all paying a fair price due to competition. That only happens in a perfect market and they don't always exist. Look at gas and electric. The limited number of players, the complexity of the pricing and marketing of said pricing and the perceived difficulty of switching suppliers means people get ripped off all the time. This is widely known and Offgen have said so.

    Certain groups of people are easier to rip off than others. I'd say MTBers are on that list. They'll argue until they're blue in the face that the £20 bottle of super-special lube that is just rebranded industrial lube costing like a £1 litre is absolutely worth every penny.

    Look at printer ink. People like Canon and HP have been ripping people off for years with stupidly expensive ink. Then Kodak come along and you can buy a full set of Kodak own colour and black ink for c.£10. Same technology, same gunk. Too few players with too much control over the market = rip-off prices.
  • MrChuckMrChuck Posts: 1,663
    nozzac wrote:
    Why all the team aggression over someone posting an opinion that they think MTB tyres are expensive? Some people seem to take a real affront at the suggestion. Weird.

    It's just a variation on the argument that because Ibis Mojos cost £3500 mountain biking is a rich man's sport and we're all being ripped off.
  • estampidaestampida Posts: 1,008
    so price of crude 15 yrs ago $50 or so a barrel (well when I started working in the oil) and petrol £0.62 a ltr

    tyres cost whatever cost

    crude to day say $100 a barrel, petrol costs £1.25 ltr

    tyres are still in the same price range, so either they were ripping off people for years or the prices are controlled ans subsidised some how

    harking back to cars, the raw materials and labour cost more now to produce a car than 2 years ago, but the are the same price or cheaper, you pay at one point or another, cos they will adjust the price of parts to claim it back the intital construction costs

    there will also be some factor in the pricing in connection to High/low demand & grade but I not going to kick the censored of this enjoy..........
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Many of the big names have wire beaded tyres starting from about 15 quid rrp.
  • What a crazy thread.

    I've just got back into cycling regularly for the first time since I was a kid and to be honest tyres are the least of my worries! The overall cost of decent bikes and components is crazy expensive for whay you're getting in reality. I know loads of people who have been on bikes for years might jump down my throat after that comment but I'm coming into biking with a fresh set of rose tinted eyes and haven't been as indocterined and aclimatised at you! I'm looking for a FS bike and fancy trying my hand at everything once I get a decent level of fitness up, so you're talking £1k+... but my gf will also need a bike so that will have to be doubled...

    My other hobby is Rallying. That's stupidly expensive too.
    Beware the Judderman my dear, when the moon is fat. Sharp of tongue and spindle limbed he is, and cunning.
  • srandssrands Posts: 27
    What a crazy thread. I'm looking for a FS bike and fancy trying my hand at everything once I get a decent level of fitness up, so you're talking £1k+
    WELL guess you mean FULL SUSPENSION, instead of FRONT SUSPENSION, so if you're not short, I'd have one of the following:
    GHOST ASX 3700 £995
    CLAUD BUTLER SHAMEN £450 approx or SPECTRE £600 approx
    MONGOOSE SALVO COMP £800 approx
    HALFORDS 2010 sale:CARRERA BANSHEE £500 approx OR BANSHEE X £700 approx OR 2011 CHRIS BOARDMAN (These if not in sale are £1600+)
    or if you can afford the following:
    CUBE AMS exactly £1150, I'd definately get that.................
    TREK FUEL EX 5 exactly £1400
    SPECIALIZED CAMBRO CAMP 16" exactly £1250
  • dan sharddan shard Posts: 722
    This has been mentioned already several times in this thread...but let me mention it again.

    the amount of 'stuff' you end up with, and often the quality of it is not directly proportional to the price.

    Perfect example:
    Buy a packet of anadin and it will cost you say £5 for 12. Whats in it? 500mg paracetamol or there abouts. Now walk around asda and find a bottle of generic paracetamol and youll find a bottle of 25 for £1.99. Both are maunfactured under the same FDA / MHRA regulations, both have the same API so why the difference in price?

    Well, Anadin is made by wyeth. a top 10 pharma company. The way that these companies make money is by bringing out new products with a patent and charging big money for it for 5/10years (depending on patent). Unfortunately to do this the company has to have a huge R&D department which usually cost circa 25% of the companies total profit to run. To get one product through R&D, clinical tials and into production can take years and cost Billions. How do they fund it? By putting a household name on their off-patent stuff, advertising it and charging more. eg anadin. this money is then used to bring new products to market

    The generic manufacturers on the other hand (like the asda own paracetamol manufacturer) dont worry about bringing new things onto the market, they dont have the facilities or the expertise to do it. Their sole aim is to wait till a product comes off patent copy it and sell it in huge quantities. That way they have minimal expense and make money in bulk manufacture. Theyre selling effectively the same thing much cheaper.

    So when people say "youre only paying for the label" well in a way there right, but that label is in turn bringing out new products, developing the field and moving the technology on.

    So to answer your question, look at how tyre technology is developing in Schwalbe / Maxxis etc. Tripple compound, clever tread paterns, tubeless etc. Whether its a car tyre or bike tyre, they will have vast R&D facilities with scientists / engineers looking at friction coefficients of materials, water displacement ratios of tread paterns, wear rates, failure modes, etc etc etc. both car and bike research has to be funded, and where does the funding come from? By putting onto the price of the premium tyres of course!! Youre paying for the technology not the rubber!

    FULL STOP!
  • srandssrands Posts: 27
    edited June 2011
    OK manufacturing businesses like to make a mystery of what they do (So to speak as an EX petro-chem office professional), almost as if it was magic, they exaggerate widely about how advanced their production is going to be (Even to their own staff/colleagues! It was my idea....... etc), they won't go into too much detail, they'll gloss on the mystique of their new almost radical developing techniques, but it's marketing hype they knew how to do what they are going to produce for next year, years ago.
    That is product releases aren't necessarily new technology, more often an incremental introduction of "all stages" of developments, over a ridiculously long time, do you really think it's a coincidence that we live an apparent civilised society, that has surpassed an alleged peak of engineering/production evolution, wondering what to do with the limitations/tolerances of rubber, plastic & metal, etc!
    Staged produced, you buy earlier versions then some miracle..... a newer version! Then some implication of what you have is outdated, almost dangerously so (You know wear & tear, it will fall apart like an old SHACKLETONS/IKEA/HABITAT suite, that's a sofa to me and you), Shock horror!

    For example: Remember different speed, thinner chains, more closely spaced cassette cogs, different increment release/pull of gear cable pull on gear shifters.. WOW
    7sp (x3= 21 SPEED)
    8spd (x3 = 24 SPEED)
    9spd (x3 = 27 SPEED)
    10spd (x3 = 30 SPEED) Wow am I in MENSA now? Must be a GENIUS, at least.

    OK FACT:
    In bike shops MTB TYRES are alot more, then the internet.

    Don't worry yourselves I won't be riding my HT bike round until my MAVIC 117's are grinding around with the blithered remains of my old tubes and tyres, I will buy some tyres from the internet, probably these amazing websites because they look like no nonsense shops, and I like their not so a la carte range choice, and not forgetting of course their embossed logo's.........:
    ~ CHAIN REACTION CYCLES EG: Panaracer Fire XC from £9

    ~ ALL TERRAIN CYCLES EG: Michelin Country All Terrain From £9

    TYRES on order "WHEN, my TIOGA XC TYRES, start to look worn, well after nearly 5 years it's not surprising! Good job these tyres aren't soft compound, like some ONZA's squidgy tyres, somebody mentioned you'd go through lots of these loops".

    Anyway to finish this thread off for a quality MTB 26" TYRE, in a bike shop is about £38 inc vat.

    If there was no such thing as a CAR, there wouldn't be an obvious COMPARISON, apart from previous MTB TYRE PRICES! But......... there is such a thing, as a CAR! And the other obvious statement here, is that a CAR uses FUEL, whereas a BIKE is free to use, obviously there is a cost to buying a bike! And it's use eventually causes WEAR and TEAR, and the bike won't be as smooth running, hence items need replacing.

    The obvious comparison is a CAR TYRE, as much as people don't like this comparison, it is a TYRE, and the most commonly used vehicle!

    Anyway the wheels on most peoples cars are 14" or 15", budget fitted starts at £35 inc vat, balancing. Since CAR TYRES are 10 times the weight of MTB tyres, feels like MTB tyres are more expensive then they should be.

    Yes yes yes you can get more expensive branded car tyres from Pirelli, Michelin and like many people over the years I have also bought huge alloys for my car at sometime, but much bigger alloy wheels, need appropriate sized tyres, but since much larger sizes, aren't produced in such large quantities, these larger tyres, are more expensive because of:
    ~ lower production quantities
    ~ great quantity of rubber used per tyre

    That's it, there really isn't anything more I can say about this, or want to!
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    But you can get Continental bike tyres in just about ANY bike shop for 15 quid each! You keep comparing your entry level car tyre to mid-high end bike tyres, or using one example.
  • warpcowwarpcow Posts: 1,448
    srands wrote:
    What a crazy thread. I'm looking for a FS bike and fancy trying my hand at everything once I get a decent level of fitness up, so you're talking £1k+
    WELL guess you mean FULL SUSPENSION, instead of FRONT SUSPENSION, so if you're not short, I'd have one of the following:
    GHOST ASX 3700 £995
    CLAUD BUTLER SHAMEN £450 approx or SPECTRE £600 approx
    MONGOOSE SALVO COMP £800 approx
    HALFORDS 2010 sale:CARRERA BANSHEE £500 approx OR BANSHEE X £700 approx OR 2011 CHRIS BOARDMAN (These if not in sale are £1600+)
    or if you can afford the following:
    CUBE AMS exactly £1150, I'd definitely get that.................
    TREK FUEL EX 5 exactly £1400
    SPECIALIZED CAMBRO CAMP 16" exactly £1250

    Why would you buy a bike ( the cube you'd "get") for over £1000, when you've recommended bikes that cost half as much? They're all bikes, in the saem way that all tyres are tyres. Your choice of bike contradicts your entire theory of the 'dark art' of tyre marketing.
  • Stiff_OrangeStiff_Orange Posts: 218
    srands wrote:
    OK bike shops have expenses like business mortgages, lots of sales staff, lots of mechanics, etc, but you'd think some of your no-nonsence, just some really decent bikes and kit 'BIKE SHOPS' would stock some of the lower RRP QUALITY tyres, BUT NO! So ordering an ODD shaped product like tyres over the internet, INCLUDING DELIVERY, equals cheaper then the shops! CRAZY!

    Basic retailing. To run a successful shop you want a frontage where you can display you goods, this increases the rent. You then want as much space inside to display the goods, people can walk around, counters tills etc, which means space to store stock is at a premium, hence why most LBS will have to order thing in. Finally you catchment area is limited to how far people will travel.

    Now look at the online business. Rent the cheapest storage space in an industiral estate in the middle of nowhere ... much cheaper. The Website runs in a hosted Data center provided by somebody like rackspace, so no infrastructure overheads here. You can go to the supplier and order in bulk get a considerable discount and store it in your industrial unit. Finally your catchment area is only limited to how far you can deliver the goods to.

    That's why online is so much cheaper. Obviously you don't get the personal service of an LBS, but you pays your money and takes you chance.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    I used to pay around £20-£25 for Panaracer Smoke and Dart, skinwall. And roughly the same when I switched to WTB Velociraptors.
    Then I found my favourite tyre of all time, the IRC Kujo - at around £40.
    And in my garage right now, I have a selection of modern MTB tyres that cost me from £15 to £40.
    Wow, how times change, huh?

    In 1997, I got my first full suss bike, for £1300. It came with censored brakes, censored forks and censored tyres. But it had a pretty decent LX (today's Deore is closest) groupset, with, if I remember rightly, some STX-RC (today's SLX?) and XT. But it was, and still is a great bike on the whole.

    What kind of full suss do you get today for around £1300? Well, as good, or better, in fact. Frames are lighter, forks are better, brakes are better.
    Frankly, nothing much has changed. there have been a couple of recent years where some insane bargains were to be had, but apart from that, prices have pretty much stayed the same.
  • nozzacnozzac Posts: 408
    Talking about Velociraptors. I'm sure I had some on my GT Karakoram and they lasted, quite literally, years. Dunno if they used some super hard wearing compound then.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    I remember getting some really cheap velociraptors, and whilst the rubber was really hard, the blocks came away from the carcass whole. Very strange.
    The genuine WTB ones (with skinwall, IIRC), were pretty soft, say, something between a 42A and a 60A Maxxis tyre.
  • MonkeypumpMonkeypump Posts: 1,528
    srands wrote:
    That's it, there really isn't anything more I can say about this, or want to!

    Thank. The. Lord.
  • bike-a-swanbike-a-swan Posts: 1,235
    I'm confused now. Here are some racing ralphs for a tenner. Ride them, and take the CAPS LOCK key off your keyboard. It'll do you good in the long run.

    http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYSCRRALW/schwalbe-racing-ralph-wired-tyre
    Rock Lobster 853, Trek 1200 and a very old, tired and loved Apollo Javelin.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Er out of stock. Oops.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • bike-a-swanbike-a-swan Posts: 1,235
    Ooops indeed. Hadn't seen that, my mistake. Point stands though!
    Rock Lobster 853, Trek 1200 and a very old, tired and loved Apollo Javelin.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • RevellRiderRevellRider Posts: 1,794
    srands wrote:
    OK manufacturing businesses like to make a mystery of what they do (So to speak as an EX petro-chem office professional), almost as if it was magic, they exaggerate widely about how advanced their production is going to be (Even to their own staff/colleagues! It was my idea....... etc), they won't go into too much detail, they'll gloss on the mystique of their new almost radical developing techniques, but it's marketing hype they knew how to do what they are going to produce for next year, years ago.
    That is product releases aren't necessarily new technology, more often an incremental introduction of "all stages" of developments, over a ridiculously long time, do you really think it's a coincidence that we live an apparent civilised society, that has surpassed an alleged peak of engineering/production evolution, wondering what to do with the limitations/tolerances of rubber, plastic & metal, etc!
    Staged produced, you buy earlier versions then some miracle..... a newer version! Then some implication of what you have is outdated, almost dangerously so (You know wear & tear, it will fall apart like an old SHACKLETONS/IKEA/HABITAT suite, that's a sofa to me and you), Shock horror!

    For example: Remember different speed, thinner chains, more closely spaced cassette cogs, different increment release/pull of gear cable pull on gear shifters.. WOW
    7sp (x3= 21 SPEED)
    8spd (x3 = 24 SPEED)
    9spd (x3 = 27 SPEED)
    10spd (x3 = 30 SPEED) Wow am I in MENSA now? Must be a GENIUS, at least.

    OK FACT:
    In bike shops MTB TYRES are alot more, then the internet.

    Don't worry yourselves I won't be riding my HT bike round until my MAVIC 117's are grinding around with the blithered remains of my old tubes and tyres, I will buy some tyres from the internet, probably these amazing websites because they look like no nonsense shops, and I like their not so a la carte range choice, and not forgetting of course their embossed logo's.........:
    ~ CHAIN REACTION CYCLES EG: Panaracer Fire XC from £9

    ~ ALL TERRAIN CYCLES EG: Michelin Country All Terrain From £9

    TYRES on order "WHEN, my TIOGA XC TYRES, start to look worn, well after nearly 5 years it's not surprising! Good job these tyres aren't soft compound, like some ONZA's squidgy tyres, somebody mentioned you'd go through lots of these loops".

    Anyway to finish this thread off for a quality MTB 26" TYRE, in a bike shop is about £38 inc vat.

    If there was no such thing as a CAR, there wouldn't be an obvious COMPARISON, apart from previous MTB TYRE PRICES! But......... there is such a thing, as a CAR! And the other obvious statement here, is that a CAR uses FUEL, whereas a BIKE is free to use, obviously there is a cost to buying a bike! And it's use eventually causes WEAR and TEAR, and the bike won't be as smooth running, hence items need replacing.

    The obvious comparison is a CAR TYRE, as much as people don't like this comparison, it is a TYRE, and the most commonly used vehicle!

    Anyway the wheels on most peoples cars are 14" or 15", budget fitted starts at £35 inc vat, balancing. Since CAR TYRES are 10 times the weight of MTB tyres, feels like MTB tyres are more expensive then they should be.

    Yes yes yes you can get more expensive branded car tyres from Pirelli, Michelin and like many people over the years I have also bought huge alloys for my car at sometime, but much bigger alloy wheels, need appropriate sized tyres, but since much larger sizes, aren't produced in such large quantities, these larger tyres, are more expensive because of:
    ~ lower production quantities
    ~ great quantity of rubber used per tyre

    That's it, there really isn't anything more I can say about this, or want to!

    [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bAi5PghfOlE/TPDLWYTI9HI/AAAAAAAAAIU/-asn29U--I0/s1600/what-the-censored -cat.jpg[/img]

    Seriously. What ever you're on, take less of them
  • BriggoBriggo Posts: 3,823
    srands wrote:
    That's it, there really isn't anything more I can say about this, or want to!

    Shame you didn't realise that before you even started this fckin stupid thread.
  • altern_8altern_8 Posts: 1,562
    Dam it,ive just drank 4 cans of carlsberg at £2.50 while reading this thread,when i could of got 4 of asda's own brand for 96p :oops:
  • tom_howardtom_howard Posts: 792
    Then I found my favourite tyre of all time, the IRC Kujo - at around £40.

    + 1000 epic tyre, they are the reason I used to be quicker I'm sure! sadly missed! incidently if anybody has any 2.25/2.35s in decent nick (unlikely i know) name your price! (nevermind what the 'tyres are too expensive' brigade says, i want those tyres!)
    Santa Cruz 5010C
    Deviate Guide
    Specialized Sequoia Elite
    Pivot Mach 429SL
    Trek Madone 5.2 Di2
    Salsa Mukluk Carbon
    Specialized Turbo Levo Expert 29er
  • android125android125 Posts: 36
    Right....thats tyres discussed.
    Now what about disc brake pads.....I think theyre rediculously expensive.
    Recently paid 16 quid for 2 lil disc things. Ouch!!
    I felt violated....
    Lets Ride!!
    Merida 96 26er
    Stumpjumper FSR 26er
  • stubsstubs Posts: 5,258
    [Daily Mail]I just paid 99 pence for an M6 nyloc bolt WTF is going on the price of oil, superfoods and pensions I blame it on the immigrants[/Daily Mail]
    Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 13,317
    stubs
    You forgot to blame single mothers and Stalin McBroon too!
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • stubsstubs Posts: 5,258
    bails87 wrote:
    stubs
    You forgot to blame single mothers and Stalin McBroon too!

    :lol:
    Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap
  • dan sharddan shard Posts: 722
    Badthread.jpg
  • h34e0fh34e0f Posts: 370
    I actually agree. I spent 4 hours last night trying to source a new set of tyres for a good price.

    Then again, you'll be lucky to get car tyres for £35 unless you have a base-spec hatchback.

    Although in general, bike tyres are a rip off when compared with car tyres when considering mass of rubber.





    EDIT: Wow I didn't realise this thread was 5 pages long. I was only going on the first page :oops:
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