Forum home Mountain biking forum The Crudcatcher

TYRES, The price of!

srandssrands Posts: 27
edited July 2011 in The Crudcatcher
Is it just me who is very surprised by the near scandalous PRICE of most MTB tyres?

An average quality MTB tyre is £35 (500 grams +)
An average budget MTB tyre is £18 (500 grams +)
Yes ok there are some cheaper ones at some bike shops/web sites.

And the amount of rubber in these tyres is not alot, even a 2.3 width 26" tyre feels pretty light at 850grams+.

Surely MTB tyre manufacturers are just setting prices (CONCEPT: YOU LIKE IT, YOU BUY IT, or GET SOMETHING CHEAPER!) on what customers will pay, rather then a comfortable profit margin.

Well the obvious comparison that can be made is CAR TYRES:
A BUDGET CAR TYRE fitted including balancing and vat is £35+
A car tyre has a significant more rubber (10 times the amount) in each tyre, when compared with MTB tyres. OK, a car tyre will have a metal matrix/mesh grid in it as well.

Recently many of the MTB tyre manufacturers have commented that the price of MTB TYRES is due to the cost of rubber!

Yeah I don't think so:
MTB TYRE average weight = 0.750 kg's
CAR TYRE average weight = 7.50 kg's

So to generalise MTB tyres used approx 10% (Or 1/10 th) of the rubber that is used in CAR tyres.
Or
To state it the other way round, CAR TYRES use 10 TIMES the amount of rubber that MTB tyres use.
Or
To state it another way, MTB TYRE RUBBER + 900% = CAR TYRE RUBBER
(0.75 KG's + 900% = 7.5 KG's)

I realise that MTB TYRE MANUFACTURERS will have some ridiculous semi plausible excuse for this, such as MTB TYRES are a different compound that just happens to cost more.... Yeah right, NOT.
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  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    it is just you.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
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  • Neily03Neily03 Posts: 295
    Yeah, you need to get out more.
  • dmortondmorton Posts: 244
    Have you considered the number of car tyres sold vs the number of MTB tyres sold? I'm guessing that far more car tyres are sold than MTB tyres, hence car tyres can be sold with a lower profit margin and the car tyre manufacturer buy at a better price for rubber as they buy more......
  • wordnumbwordnumb Posts: 847
    There were probably more cheap deals to be had last year on some popular tyres, but I haven't noticed a jump in rrp.
  • bennett_346bennett_346 Posts: 5,092
    Maybe you should talk to that guy who hates the word Rotor, you two would get on well.
  • bails87bails87 Posts: 13,317
    You can buy cheap car and bike tyres and expensive car and bike tyres.

    Lok at top end racing tyres, they costs more than 10 times what an expensive MTB tyre does.

    The £35 car tyre is comparable to the cheapest plasticky-est kids bike tyre that Halfords sell.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • They're very expensive for what you get, I agree.

    Like a lot of hobbies though isn't it...
  • TuckerUKTuckerUK Posts: 398
    Surely MTB tyre manufacturers are just setting prices (CONCEPT: YOU LIKE IT, YOU BUY IT, or GET SOMETHING CHEAPER!) on what customers will pay, rather then a comfortable profit margin.

    Errrm, yup, and your point? That's pretty much the way businesses work in non-communist countries
    "Coming through..."
  • Mojo_666Mojo_666 Posts: 860
    I just got a pair of nobby nics and 3 continetal tubes for £44 delivered....maybe shop arround?
  • dan sharddan shard Posts: 722
    You can buy a car off ebay for £500 that is techanically brilliant. an internal combustion engine, on board computer telling the engine exactly how much fuel and air to put in, very fancy suspension set-up an incredibly intricate gearbox etc etc, at the same time you spend £6000 on a bicycle on ebay that although very good, technically it is nothing in comparison to a car.

    The cost an item is based on what people are willing to spend on it, not how much material you end up with
  • Cat With No TailCat With No Tail Posts: 13,581
    Epic rant is epic!

    And as Bails said, when you are paying £50 for a bike tyre, you are (paying too much, but in theory) paying for the very best in design and technology, tread patterns, weight saving, complex compounds and so on. Were you to buy an equivalent car tyre, you'd be looking at a lot more than £50.

    You could say the same thing about bikes in general:

    "what are bike manufacturers thinking selling bikes for £5k, I can buy a car for that"

    I'll give you an E- for thought process. You really must try harder.
  • ricardo_smoothricardo_smooth Posts: 1,281
    I am never going to get that part of my life back now! Either pay for quality or buy ditchfinder 3000's. Simples
  • bennett_346bennett_346 Posts: 5,092
    What did you even hope to achieve by posting this? Looking to round up a bunch of (un)merry men to fight your cause or did you just want to demonstrate the basics of ill advised mathematics?
  • rhextrhext Posts: 1,639
    How much is anything 'worth'? You sell things for what you can get for them. Generally speaking in a capitalist society, if you take the p**s someone else will come in and undercut you and you go out of business. That's one of the reasons why brands are so valuable and important: people will pay more for a branded item because they perceive it to be somehow better despite the fact that it may be practically identical to a cheaper item with a different label.

    Interesting to know what typical profit margins on MTB tyres are though: they do seem a little expensive for what you get. Maybe I could start a company......
  • estampidaestampida Posts: 1,008
    if you really want your blood to boil check the price difference between 20", 24", 26" and 29", that come in the same tread

    the price difference is not conected to change in wheel size............. how does that work
  • wordnumbwordnumb Posts: 847
    Perhaps consider taking up sailing? The tyres are dirt cheap.
  • warpcowwarpcow Posts: 1,448
    So... motorbike tyres, eh?

    And where do those b*****ds get off charging more money for lighter bikes? There's obviously far less material in them.
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,904
    Oh well, while I am here, the cost of materials often makes up a small proportion of total maunufacturing cost.
    Have a nice day, bleeding ulcers and all.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • Stuy-bStuy-b Posts: 248
    You think mtb tyres cost alot??? Check out top end road tubs, hand stiched italian silk babys costing upwards of £200 each. :D.

    And FWIW the mark up on tyres is no more than the mark up on anything else in the bike world.
  • estampidaestampida Posts: 1,008
    who actually rides around on £200 tubs all the time exactly, oh thats right they get them for free.........
  • TowerRiderTowerRider Posts: 430
    Do you know that the prices are going to increase? The price of rubber has shot up... most tyre makers will have bought and stocked when low BUT this stock won't last AND oil prices have increased. That should bring out another rant soon.

    I got Nobby Nics for £22 recently ;)
  • srandssrands Posts: 27
    Yes, but alot of MTB tyres are made by the same businesses that make CAR tyres:

    1 example: Michelin
  • nozzacnozzac Posts: 408
    I'm generally a little surprised at the prices MTBers are happy to pay for all sorts of things. Browsing the typical MTB magazine and people appear to be spending large amounts on the smallest things from lubes and bar-ends up to the most insanely expensive bikes.

    I think it's because the pursuit is largely 20-40 year old guys who have jobs and "spare" cash to lavish on their hobby. The marketing guys and magazines etc are is constantly pushing the small technical advances convincing people they need The Best whatever-it-is they are about to buy. I guess that's how people end up spending £160 on a hydration pack. I can't be because it does it's job 4x better than a £40 job.

    Tyres don't seem to me to be the worst offenders. You can get reasonable deals if you don't set your heart on a specific tyre and shop around. I got a set of Continental X-Kings for £25 recently. Almost as light as Race Kings but grippier for where I ride and don't seem to wear down on the road to the forest quite so fast. Seems like good value to me.

    You don't need to spend loads of cash to enjoy yourself riding. I don't think there is a remotely linear relationship between money spent and pleasure obtained (apart from with brasses of course).
  • BriggoBriggo Posts: 3,823
    Bike versus car tyres.

    Economies of scale, look it up.
  • RevellRiderRevellRider Posts: 1,794
    bails87 wrote:
    You can buy cheap car and bike tyres and expensive car and bike tyres.

    Lok at top end racing tyres, they costs more than 10 times what an expensive MTB tyre does.

    The £35 car tyre is comparable to the cheapest plasticky-est kids bike tyre that Halfords sell.

    You mean something like these in 255/35/18? http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performan ... /2117/7205
  • RaymondavalonRaymondavalon Posts: 5,346
    srands

    Congratulations on the most pointless rant I've read since one of the Crudities had his dust caps stolen...

    Perhaps you should take up a sport you can afford... like paper airplane flying.. Wait.. have you seen the price of a ream of A4 paper? Again, maybe a little "too rich" for your blood..
  • Ryan JonesRyan Jones Posts: 775
    Does a grand for a set of four tyres you can properly compare to high end performance MTB tyres seem better......

    http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/toyo/r888-2g


    The OP's rant seems to circle about how much rubber you get for your money when it's all said and done, which is evidently ill thought out ! Tyres are THE biggest single item on an otherwise sorted bike which can be changed to have massive effects, everything from weight to drag to cornering feel to wet/dry weather grip to puncture resistance to wear rate can all be affected in one fell swoop !

    £50 to transform a sketchy riding bike into a confident handling one which can therefore be enjoyed much more is about the best value upgrade you could probably make to your bike !
  • tom_howardtom_howard Posts: 792
    Begrudge the cost of tyres? Just dont buy them, ride around on bare rims, thatll show those thieving manufacturers!

    Stuff costs money. Deal with it.

    Also, compare the price of race/high end spec bike tyres (£120/pair max) to mega spec road tyres or racing slicks IIRC a veyrons tyres will cost you £26,000, every 2500 miles. As will 4 racing slicks, which will give you 1 or 200 miles. yes they may have twice the amont of rubber as regular road cars due to the size of the wheels, but a set of road tyres aint £13,000! not to mention how long they last!
    Santa Cruz 5010C
    Deviate Guide
    Specialized Sequoia Elite
    Pivot Mach 429SL
    Trek Madone 5.2 Di2
    Salsa Mukluk Carbon
    Specialized Turbo Levo Expert 29er
  • srandssrands Posts: 27
    Well MTB TYRE PRICES RRP are expensive, considering the cost of CAR TYRES.
    TYRES is the comparison being made.

    Also I think because, as customers we don't have to replace MTB TYRES often, hence we pay whatever it is.

    I believe MTB TYRE MANUFACTURERS have set the prices of MTB TYRES because of the relative LONGEVITY of MTB TYRES.

    But this LONGEVITY depends on the HARDNESS of the rubber compound, which certainly won't make much cost difference in the manufacturing process between SOFT COMPOUND TYRES and HARD COMPOUND TYRES.

    I won't what the average profit % margin is on MTB TYRES?

    But as consumers for many things, we don't know what the profit % margin is on products we buy. The same could be said for MTB's, perhaps they make a FLIPPING FORTUNE.
  • tom_howardtom_howard Posts: 792
    Well MTB TYRE PRICES RRP are expensive, considering the cost of CAR TYRES. No they aren't. quality car tyres are £250 a corner, bike tyres rarly ever go above £50, unless you want ice spikes. shoot car tyres are £40? Shoot mtb tyres can be found for sub £5
    TYRES is the comparison being made.

    Also I think because, as customers we don't have to replace MTB TYRES often, hence we pay whatever it is. good for you

    I believe MTB TYRE MANUFACTURERS have set the prices of MTB TYRES because of the relative LONGEVITY of MTB TYRES. whats with all the caps?

    But this LONGEVITY depends on the HARDNESS of the rubber compound, which certainly won't make much cost difference in the manufacturing process between SOFT COMPOUND TYRES and HARD COMPOUND TYRES. So are the makers screwing us with soft compound tyres? No, as they have higher grip levels.

    I won't what the average profit % margin is on MTB TYRES? As a conservative estimate there will be 50% margin from beginning to end excluding VAT 20% for the LBS, 10% for distributor and 20% for the manufacturer. Believe me when I say these are not excessive margins

    But as consumers for many things, we don't know what the profit % margin is on products we buy. The same could be said for MTB's, perhaps they make a FLIPPING FORTUNE. A business? Trying to make money? These crooks must be stopped!!!
    Santa Cruz 5010C
    Deviate Guide
    Specialized Sequoia Elite
    Pivot Mach 429SL
    Trek Madone 5.2 Di2
    Salsa Mukluk Carbon
    Specialized Turbo Levo Expert 29er
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