I've kicked a hornet's nest with this elsewhere

123457

Comments

  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    spen666 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    ....
    Erm, it isn't illegal to drink alcohol while driving. This has been established earlier in the thread. The notion of what is socially acceptable or uinacceptable is driven and influenced by what is legal and illegal.

    I would argue it isn't socially acceptable to do Class A drugs (as in the majority of society would frown on it) but then it is also illegal.

    I await your apology.


    It is not legal to drink whilst driving as you are guilty of the offence of not being in full control of your vehicle.

    I await your apology
    I'm sorry, hang on so by doing anything other than driving the car while driving you are committing an offence?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Specialized Needs
    Specialized Needs Posts: 802
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    I think my intention was to demonstrate where that mentallity could lead.
    I do agree with that.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    And Spen666 and Specialized Needs.

    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    *For it to be socially acceptable it needs to be accepted by the majority of society.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    The driver committed no crime, the OP didn't say or imply he had even after speaking to him the OP did not feel that a crime had taken place or a law had been broken, so why report him?

    I think the OP, like a lot of people, including you thought that drinking alcohol in a car was illegal, therefore a suspicion of that was there in the form of a full can of stella being drunk from. Secondly, there is also a crime of driking under the influence, and again reasonable suspicion was there in the form of the driver drinking strong lager while at the wheel.

    In my opinion there is enough there for reporting.

    The driver is not being reported for his looks, what he is wearing or any other predjuice, but because he has been drinking alcohol.

    Fair enough you would not report DDD. but I am glad some will.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    I think the police might get a tad p8ssed off if we called them every-time we witnessed something that some people think is socially unacceptable..." I would like to report a man for pushing in at the post office....he looked a bit dodgy too so is probably a bogus benefit claimant or some other offence I am not aware of but he has probably committed by the looks of him...get the blues and twos on pronto Dixon!".
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    spen666 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    ....
    Erm, it isn't illegal to drink alcohol while driving. This has been established earlier in the thread. The notion of what is socially acceptable or uinacceptable is driven and influenced by what is legal and illegal.

    I would argue it isn't socially acceptable to do Class A drugs (as in the majority of society would frown on it) but then it is also illegal.

    I await your apology.


    It is not legal to drink whilst driving as you are guilty of the offence of not being in full control of your vehicle.

    I await your apology
    I'm sorry, hang on so by doing anything other than driving the car while driving you are committing an offence?


    Standard Offence Wording
    On **(..SPECIFY DATE..) at **(..SPECIFY TOWNSHIP..), drove a motor vehicle, namely **(..SPECIFY VEHICLE MAKE AND INDEX NUMBER..), on a road, namely **(..SPECIFY ROAD AND LOCATION..), when you were in such a position that you could not have proper control of the vehicle

    Legislation
    Contrary to regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 41D of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

    Toddle off to regulation 104 of the CUR 1986 and S41D of the RTA 1988 and see for yourself.

    But to answer your question "YES, potentially"

    I await your apology
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    And Spen666 and Specialized Needs.

    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    *For it to be socially acceptable it needs to be accepted by the majority of society.

    Why should I?

    I have not been involved in a debate about what is socially acceptable at all.

    All I have done is stated the law. I am not debating the issue of socially acceptability
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • clarkey cat
    clarkey cat Posts: 3,641
    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    RLJing?
    Dolan Mythos
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    Why has this thread gone from reasonable discussion to people arguing against things they have taken ridiculously out of context.

    Sewinman, you are either remarkably thick (which I don't think you are) or you are being obtuse.

    I guess this is what happens when you get over 7 or 8 pages.

    DDD - You have missed the point re. socially acceptable = Illegal. As opposed to saying what is illegal but also acceptable, here is a little tip, try looking at it the other way round, what is legal but also unacceptable.

    Let's give you an example, going in to a library and shouting across it to your friend. Nothing illegal but quite unacceptable and you would quite rightly be told off for it.
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    I think it's a pretty safe bet that if a policeman sees you driving along swigging a can of stella he'll pull you over and breathlyse you. If you're not over the limit he'll send you on your way but probably with a bit of a talking to and a strong suggestion that you dont do it again. So the fact it isnt technicaly illegal to have a beer while driving is moot because doing so is likely to get you in botehr if you're seen doing it.

    I'm also surprised that some have managed to turn this into an issue about civil liberties - just because a behaviour is technically legal doesnt make it acceptable or a 'right' to defend.
  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Sewinman wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    I think the police might get a tad p8ssed off if we called them every-time we witnessed something that some people think is socially unacceptable..." I would like to report a man for pushing in at the post office....he looked a bit dodgy too so is probably a bogus benefit claimant or some other offence I am not aware of but he has probably committed by the looks of him...get the blues and twos on pronto Dixon!".

    Pushing in on a q is not quite the same as drunk driving, or in this case enough suspicion aroused to suspect it. See exhibit 1 - can of strong lager. When said driver was challenged, they acted in a suspicious manner, pouring what they were legally drinking out of the window.

    This was way more than just socially unacceptable, it was a potential crime.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    edited June 2011
    I don't see any particular difference (putting to one side, for the moment, the driving "whilst doing something else" argument) in threatening to report someone who has a pint in a pub, and then gets in the car, to drinking a beer when already driving. They both involve drinking and driving - if that's the OP's issue.

    If it's the consumption of alcohol combined with driving that's caused the OP's problem, then does he report anyone he sees drinking in a pub and then getting into a car? I would presume not.

    If it's the "not being in proper control" which causes the OP's problem, then does he threaten to report anyone doing anything behind the wheel that could be considered "not being in proper control"? Again, I would presume not.

    In which case I struggle to see the OP's justification for making such a threat in this instance. However I can understand that the perception of what the chap was doing is immediately unacceptable to most people.
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    Paulie W wrote:
    I think it's a pretty safe bet that if a policeman sees you driving along swigging a can of stella he'll pull you over and breathlyse you. If you're not over the limit he'll send you on your way but probably with a bit of a talking to and a strong suggestion that you dont do it again. So the fact it isnt technicaly illegal to have a beer while driving is moot because doing so is likely to get you in botehr if you're seen doing it.

    I'm also surprised that some have managed to turn this into an issue about civil liberties - just because a behaviour is technically legal doesnt make it acceptable or a 'right' to defend.

    Nicely summed up.

    You will now get picked apart with some ludicrous scenario that would happen one in a million times that 'proves you wrong'.

    You will then have to apologies over the internet. :roll:

    I don't know why I am stupid enough to get mildly annoyed.
  • Specialized Needs
    Specialized Needs Posts: 802
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    And Spen666 and Specialized Needs.

    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    *For it to be socially acceptable it needs to be accepted by the majority of society.
    Wrong emphasis. For the way I intended (and thought I had written it) you would be asking us to name things that are not socially acceptable but are legal.

    This is the situation suggested here. Some posters are suggesting, in apparent opposition to your current view, that although it was legal (or may have been) to consume the yellow beer in the car, it was not socially acceptable. That is, it was legal but not socially acceptable.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    spen666 wrote:

    I await your apology

    I apologies.

    Sad-large.gif
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    I feel slightly unwell, as I tend to agree with Sewinman and DDD in this thread.

    But now brekkie has turned up and my whole afternoon is complete.

    noooo.gif

    I think it's worse for me, to be honest.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Why has this thread gone from reasonable discussion to people arguing against things they have taken ridiculously out of context.

    Sewinman, you are either remarkably thick (which I don't think you are) or you are being obtuse.

    I guess this is what happens when you get over 7 or 8 pages.

    DDD - You have missed the point re. socially acceptable = Illegal. As opposed to saying what is illegal but also acceptable, here is a little tip, try looking at it the other way round, what is legal but also unacceptable.

    Let's give you an example, going in to a library and shouting across it to your friend. Nothing illegal but quite unacceptable and you would quite rightly be told off for it.

    Could easily be an offence contrary to S5 of the Public Order Act
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    edited June 2011
    spen666 wrote:
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Why has this thread gone from reasonable discussion to people arguing against things they have taken ridiculously out of context.

    Sewinman, you are either remarkably thick (which I don't think you are) or you are being obtuse.

    I guess this is what happens when you get over 7 or 8 pages.

    DDD - You have missed the point re. socially acceptable = Illegal. As opposed to saying what is illegal but also acceptable, here is a little tip, try looking at it the other way round, what is legal but also unacceptable.

    Let's give you an example, going in to a library and shouting across it to your friend. Nothing illegal but quite unacceptable and you would quite rightly be told off for it.

    Could easily be an offence contrary to S5 of the Public Order Act

    Neither of these is cut and dried of course but...

    Legal, not socially acceptable:
    Tax avoidance ;)
    Smoking while pregnant.
    Drinking while pregnant.

    Not legal, likely more socially acceptable than the above:
    Smoking weed

    I await your apology DDD :twisted:
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    spen666 wrote:
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Why has this thread gone from reasonable discussion to people arguing against things they have taken ridiculously out of context.

    Sewinman, you are either remarkably thick (which I don't think you are) or you are being obtuse.

    I guess this is what happens when you get over 7 or 8 pages.

    DDD - You have missed the point re. socially acceptable = Illegal. As opposed to saying what is illegal but also acceptable, here is a little tip, try looking at it the other way round, what is legal but also unacceptable.

    Let's give you an example, going in to a library and shouting across it to your friend. Nothing illegal but quite unacceptable and you would quite rightly be told off for it.

    Could easily be an offence contrary to S5 of the Public Order Act

    I knew that would come back.

    Would you not also accept there could be circumatances where it wouldn't be an offence but unsociable. Please, work with me here, you get the point I was making.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    spen666 wrote:
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    Why has this thread gone from reasonable discussion to people arguing against things they have taken ridiculously out of context.

    Sewinman, you are either remarkably thick (which I don't think you are) or you are being obtuse.

    I guess this is what happens when you get over 7 or 8 pages.

    DDD - You have missed the point re. socially acceptable = Illegal. As opposed to saying what is illegal but also acceptable, here is a little tip, try looking at it the other way round, what is legal but also unacceptable.

    Let's give you an example, going in to a library and shouting across it to your friend. Nothing illegal but quite unacceptable and you would quite rightly be told off for it.

    Could easily be an offence contrary to S5 of the Public Order Act

    I knew that would come back.

    Would you not also accept there could be circumatances where it wouldn't be an offence but unsociable. Please, work with me here, you get the point I was making.

    I'll work with you.

    However if you suggest a scenario that is potentially a criminal offence, then I will say it is.

    The remit of S5 POA is so wide that it can cover nearly every form of anti social behaviour done in public
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • Specialized Needs
    Specialized Needs Posts: 802
    How about picking your nose in public (not while driving a car :roll: ) and eating it.

    Legal? Socially acceptable?
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    spen666 wrote:
    The remit of S5 POA is so wide that it can cover nearly every form of anti social behaviour done in public

    It Can. So fair to say it doesn't always.

    Therefore, things will happen that are not illegal (as no punishment is given by the law) which are also deemed socially unacceptable.

    Ok, rudeness is generally deemed socially unacceptable. Clearly not illegal.

    Sheesh this is hard work.
  • woodford2barbican
    woodford2barbican Posts: 1,505
    Specialized Needs wrote:
    How about picking your nose in public (not while driving a car :roll: ) and eating it.

    Legal? Socially acceptable?

    Tasty?
  • Wallace1492
    Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Specialized Needs wrote:
    How about picking your nose in public (not while driving a car :roll: ) and eating it.

    Legal? Socially acceptable?

    What a scenario!!

    Today I have been advised by the cleaners that someone has been picking their nose and smearing it all over the mirror on one of the cubicles. Legal - probably, socially unacceptable - definately not.

    Had to send out an e-mail and ask the person to stop.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    And Spen666 and Specialized Needs.

    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    *For it to be socially acceptable it needs to be accepted by the majority of society.

    Speeding?
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Wallace1492 wrote:
    Specialized Needs wrote:
    How about picking your nose in public (not while driving a car :roll: ) and eating it.

    Legal? Socially acceptable?

    What a scenario!!

    Today I have been advised by the cleaners that someone has been picking their nose and smearing it all over the mirror on one of the cubicles. Legal - probably, socially unacceptable - definitely not.

    Had to send out an e-mail and ask the person to stop.

    could be offence of criminal damage!!!!

    Imagine that in court
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • Specialized Needs
    Specialized Needs Posts: 802
    Smoking in a car with the windows closed, with a small baby in the car?

    Is that socially unacceptable? It is to some. (subjectivity, that's the problem)
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    I'm just gonna repost from before

    Tax avoidance
    Smoking while pregnant
    Drinking while pregnant

    Smoking weed
    Binning junk mail addressed to a previous occupant
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Specialized Needs wrote:
    Smoking in a car with the windows closed, with a small baby in the car?

    Is that socially unacceptable? It is to some. (subjectivity, that's the problem)

    May be made illegal:

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... hildren.do
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    Sketchley wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    clarkey cat wrote:
    his point is that just because it isnt illegal doesnt mean that it is socially acceptable.

    And Spen666 and Specialized Needs.

    Tell me one thing each that is socially acceptable* that is also illegal?

    *For it to be socially acceptable it needs to be accepted by the majority of society.

    Speeding?
    +1
    As is bad driving in general.
    As was, until recent times, drunk driving.

Categories