I've kicked a hornet's nest with this elsewhere

Jay dubbleU

Well done Mr B - much better dealt with that way than reporting it - police wouldn't have done anythin anyway I suspect

I would have a go at you about the hill but bearing in mind my performance last time we were out I think it would be pot calling kettle

thelawnet

I went out the other day to the PYO farm. It was a nice sunny day. When I got back in the car I noticed a single bottle of Stella (330ml). I opened it there, drank some and then put it in my cup holder.

I finished the rest of it on the way home, stopped at lights.

I broke no laws, had consumed no other alcohol, and I would have probably advised you to 'go on then' if you said you would phone the police, possibly along with 'f off'.

Ok you do get some nutters, but I think it's reasonable to assume that someone drinking in their vehicle is aware that it is a provocative act and if they have previously drunk six pints in the pub they are unlikely to keep going in the car, whereas someone sipping from a can of Stella is quite likely to be on their first one, entirely unimpaired.

Drinking beer while driving is not going to make you instantly dangerous from a single sip, so there really is no difference between having a Stella while driving and having one before driving and then sipping a diet coke while driving.

davmaggs

Drinking a can of Stella in the car isn't an offence as this is the UK and not north America. At best he could be done for something minor* and would be within his rights to tell you to go away if he'd just bought a pack and decided to crack one open. That being said it was probably better to be a good citizen and do what you did.

*I seem to remember someone getting done for eating an apple behind the wheel previously, although there's probably more to that story otherwise drive throughs and cup holders would be illegal.

DonDaddyD

I don't eat or drink while driving and I also don't like operating the Tom Tom*. If I need to then I pull over do what I've got to do and then continue driving.

*I can operate the radio but this is largely because it's about as easy to operate as changing gear.

El Gordo

So he was stationary in a line of traffic drinking from a tin - hardly not in control of his vehicle then.

You've no reason to think he was over the limit. He could equally have had a can before setting out and been perfectly legal.

So yeah, I think you were perhaps a little presumptious and condesending. I'm amazed he didn't just tell you where to go.

I'm not saying it's a good thing or that drinking and/when driving is fine but telling people off for doing something legal seems a bit unecessary.

As an aside, my mate in Australia tells me stopping at the drive through off-license for a 'roadie' to drink on your way home is perfectly normal.

Dgh

You did the right thing. If he's driving a car, he shouldn't be drinking. That he may not have been over the limit makes little difference. That a driver's blood alcohol level is below the limit doesn't make it a good idea. Plus, that he felt the need to drink a can whilst in charge of his car is consistent with a degree of dependency or stupidity that might cause one to suspect him of being over the limit.

So, I change my mind. You should have reported him anyway.

The Rookie

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

There is Driving under the influence and drunk in cahrge, the later ooffence only has to show you are in charge (have the keys to) a vehicle but there is a statutory defence if you can prove (balance of probablities) that there was no likleyhood of you driving (so the car was say 200 miles away, or had a failed engine and couldn't be driven as easy examples).

In KB's case, my guess is it wasn't the blokes first, if it was me (and I wouldn't drink stella at all, or beer in a car so its hypothetical) if it was my first and I'd only had a few sips I'd tell KB to FRO (politely) as I'd done nothing wrong, if on the other hand I though I was close to the limit, I'd do anything to prevent being reported inlcuding poring it away!

Simon

shouldbeinbed

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

My car key is on my keyring with my house keys & bike lock keys, even on drunken nights out with the car safely tucked up a home.

I can also be over the limit but opening the car to find my phone or put the shopping bags in the boot etc with no intention of driving it.

Possession of keys seems a bit paper thin unless you're in the drivets seat stabbing for.tge ignition, But I don't know for sure

Wallace1492

To the people that think it was fine for him to be drinking Stella while driving a car, just hope I never ever have to get in a car with you driving.

Can you not see that drinking and driving just do not mix, not in any way.
It is not cool, it is not a laugh, it is not something that quirky Aussies do on the way home.

What it does do is dull the senses, and leads to carnage. Countless deaths and injuries.
When does it become completely socially unacceptable to mix the two?

May not have been illegal, but how can you possibly defend him!

bails87

shouldbeinbed wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

My car key is on my keyring with my house keys & bike lock keys, even on drunken nights out with the car safely tucked up a home.

I can also be over the limit but opening the car to find my phone or put the shopping bags in the boot etc with no intention of driving it.

Possession of keys seems a bit paper thin unless you're in the drivets seat stabbing for.tge ignition, But I don't know for sure

I think (and my legal knowledge is coming from Road Wars and the like!) that the keys have to be in the ignition in order to be 'in control' of the vehicle.

I was told by the police that having an open container of alcohol while behind the wheel is illegal, but maybe that just refers to all containers. Purely having the jeys in your pocket couldn't count, any more than having the keys to a gun safe is equal to carrying a gun.

As for the drive thru/cup holder stuff.....do people actually eat meals whilst driving along?! I though the point of a drive through was to get stuff quickly and either eat it sitting in the car park or get the food and drive back home. And just because they're in the car doesn't mean it must be legal to use them while driving does it!? Some cars have TV screens and cruise control, but if you climbed into the back to watch a DVD you'd get into trouble/a coffin.

I agree with DDD, I don't eat or use my phone (don't have a sat nav) while driving. I might drink from a bottle, but only if it's one of the ones with the self sealing lid (e.g. Lucozade sport), and I'll keep it in the cup holder with the flip-lid already up. If I need to I can just drop the bottle and it won't make a mess. Not exactly the same as a can of Stella. I'll only do that on quiet motorways/in stationary traffic. EDIT: "That" refers to drinking, not drinking Stella!!
I've seen a WVM joining the M6 (~70mph) while drinking a mug of tea and a woman, with a young child in the passenger seat, crossing an awkward junction while drinking out of a pint glass. People seem to think driving is something that just happens while you kill time in the car, rather than something that actively needs doing.

walkingbootweather

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

While at Uni we spent New Year in deepest darkest Wales and decided to visit the local village in fancy dress.

At 2.00am it was time to head for home and I decided a 2 mile hike through the snow in a nun's habit and opened toes sandles wasn't a good idea. I opened the minibus climbed in and changed into jeans and boots to start the trek home (despite 'friends' encouraging me to drive). As I locked the bus and moved away the light of a parked Police car came on and drove up towards us. The policeman congratulated me on "making the right decision". There was no suggestion that I was in the wrong even though I had entered a motor vehicle (and was technically in charge of it) while drunk. Maybe the copper was just being sensible?

jonny_trousers

walkingbootweather wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

While at Uni we spent New Year in deepest darkest Wales and decided to visit the local village in fancy dress.

At 2.00am it was time to head for home and I decided a 2 mile hike through the snow in a nun's habit and opened toes sandles wasn't a good idea. I opened the minibus climbed in and changed into jeans and boots to start the trek home (despite 'friends' encouraging me to drive). As I locked the bus and moved away the light of a parked Police car came on and drove up towards us. The policeman congratulated me on "making the right decision". There was no suggestion that I was in the wrong even though I had entered a motor vehicle (and was technically in charge of it) while drunk. Maybe the copper was just being sensible?

Please tell me you told him it was a 'Bad habit you were trying to get out of.'

walkingbootweather

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Please tell me you told him it was a 'Bad habit you were trying to get out of.'

No but when I got back to the house the GF told me I'd be getting nun that night...

Anonymous

Just a question -

Out of all the people here who have lambasted the simple action of drinking whilst driving (I'm not talking being over the alcohol limit, I mean simply drinking a drink while driving).

How many of you have drunk out of your water bottle whilst cycling? Or do you ALWAYS stop by the side of the road to take a sip before carrying on?

What would you do if you did see another cyclist drinking from his/her water bottle while moving?

I can remember reading articles on basic training where they encourage learning to drink while riding.

As for me, well I've done both drink a can of Diet Coke while driving and drank from a water bottle while cycling so I'm not trying to judge, but you have to be fair.

To be honest I think you less in control of a bike while drinking than in a car.

bails87

I've heard that children are allowed to ride bikes. It's not fair, 12 year olds should be allowed to drive cars too, as they're clearly exactly the same

thecrofter

The impression I get from various cases is that Drunk in Charge is one of those laws that is open to interpretation. I've heard of people getting done while sleeping it off in the back seat. They were "in charge" of the vehicle. Depending on the circumstances some folk get away with a fine. If you are attempting to or actually driving the car then look out.

The guy with the tin of Stella may well still have been under the legal limit but I suspect Plod would have breathalised him and given him a polite warning about how it looks even if he'd been under the limit. An officious member of the constabulary could have found something to do him on anyway, I've no doubt.

But, and for me it's a huge but, if the bloke with the Stella had then been involved in an "accident" and someone lost their live, how would he have felt. Bad enough to be responsible for another human's death, even partly, but how could you live with yourself knowing you've been drinking and driving, even a little.

KB, maybe a bit lenient on the guy. Think I would have reported him when I got home.

bails87

Just FYI, I think we're getting closer to finding that nest

DonDaddyD

RichardSwt wrote:

Just a question -

Out of all the people here who have lambasted the simple action of drinking whilst driving (I'm not talking being over the alcohol limit, I mean simply drinking a drink while driving).

How many of you have drunk out of your water bottle whilst cycling? Or do you ALWAYS stop by the side of the road to take a sip before carrying on?

What would you do if you did see another cyclist drinking from his/her water bottle while moving?

I can remember reading articles on basic training where they encourage learning to drink while riding.

As for me, well I've done both drink a can of Diet Coke while driving and drank from a water bottle while cycling so I'm not trying to judge, but you have to be fair.

To be honest I think you less in control of a bike while drinking than in a car.

Cycling for so many many - some obvious and some not so obvious - reasons is not the same as driving a car.

That said when cycling in London, if I'm in traffic I only drink from my water bottle when stationary at the traffic lights. Why? Because the action of getting the bottle out of the cage, drinking and then putting it back can leave me off balance and there are too many other variables on the road for me to maintain a decent amount of safety. So the risk isn't worth it.

When on an open road so less traffic, people etc, I slow down when drinking from my bottle.

That said, this is all moot and the comparison between drinking and cycling and drinking and driving is a rubbish one. You are doing completely different things, asking different things from your senses and of yourself when driving compared to cycling. The damage potential and risk to yourself and others is at different levels when in a car compared to cycling, so you are likely to react differently as well.

When I drive, should I need to eat, drink, operate my Tom Tom or answer the phone/text I'll find somewhere to stop safely to do so.

thecrofter

We had an incident at my work a couple of years ago. I work in a garage. A customer came to pick up his car after a service and the receptionist smelt drink on him, she refused to give the guy his car key. The customer got a taxi home and phoned up raging to our MD that this had happened as he'd only had the one at his golf club and so on. The MD's response, again quite rightly IMO, was this. Supposing our receptionist had given him his keys and on his way home he'd knocked down and killed a child, how would our staff member have felt knowing she had suspected he had been drinking and not prevented this from happening.

The message is drinking and driving doesn't just mess up the people directly involved, it's just not worth it.

Drive safe, kids

davmaggs

Wallace1492 wrote:

To the people that think it was fine for him to be drinking Stella while driving a car, just hope I never ever have to get in a car with you driving.

Can you not see that drinking and driving just do not mix, not in any way.
It is not cool, it is not a laugh, it is not something that quirky Aussies do on the way home.

What it does do is dull the senses, and leads to carnage. Countless deaths and injuries.
When does it become completely socially unacceptable to mix the two?

May not have been illegal, but how can you possibly defend him!

I think what we are pointing out that whilst it is unusual it isn't illegal, and that some of the 'laws' or terms being quoted on here aren't relevent to the UK.

Also it's fun to point out that many people have driven with a small amount of alcohol in their blood equivalent to the OP's example and are happy with that, but go nuts because he is doing both at the same time.

spen666

Monkeypump wrote:

So the guy hadn't committed any offence (from a strictly legal POV), and you don't know if he was actually drunk (i.e. over the legal limit to drive) or not?

Not commenting on the rights/wrongs of your actions, but perhaps a little presumptive?

Not being in control of his car or perhaps driving without due care and attention spring to mind as offences made out (possibly) on the facts

spen666

bails87 wrote:

shouldbeinbed wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

Re the offence of being "drunk in charge of a vehicle", I was once told that just being in possession of the keys was enough technically to be charged. That may be a urban myth however.

My car key is on my keyring with my house keys & bike lock keys, even on drunken nights out with the car safely tucked up a home.

I can also be over the limit but opening the car to find my phone or put the shopping bags in the boot etc with no intention of driving it.

Possession of keys seems a bit paper thin unless you're in the drivets seat stabbing for.tge ignition, But I don't know for sure

I think (and my legal knowledge is coming from Road Wars and the like!) that the keys have to be in the ignition in order to be 'in control' of the vehicle.

.... .

your car could be in Lands End and you in Newcastle, but you can still be in charge of a vehicle (clearly in those circumstances, no prosecutor would prosecute a case as there is no public interest)

suzyb

Did anyone see Police Interceptors last night. They did a campaign at a shopping center to educate people on drink driving and had people "drive" a simulator with booze gogles on that simulated being drunk.

Anonymous

DonDaddyD wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

Just a question -

Out of all the people here who have lambasted the simple action of drinking whilst driving (I'm not talking being over the alcohol limit, I mean simply drinking a drink while driving).

How many of you have drunk out of your water bottle whilst cycling? Or do you ALWAYS stop by the side of the road to take a sip before carrying on?

What would you do if you did see another cyclist drinking from his/her water bottle while moving?

I can remember reading articles on basic training where they encourage learning to drink while riding.

As for me, well I've done both drink a can of Diet Coke while driving and drank from a water bottle while cycling so I'm not trying to judge, but you have to be fair.

To be honest I think you less in control of a bike while drinking than in a car.

Cycling for so many many - some obvious and some not so obvious - reasons is not the same as driving a car.

That said when cycling in London, if I'm in traffic I only drink from my water bottle when stationary at the traffic lights. Why? Because the action of getting the bottle out of the cage, drinking and then putting it back can leave me off balance and there are too many other variables on the road for me to maintain a decent amount of safety. So the risk isn't worth it.

When on an open road so less traffic, people etc, I slow down when drinking from my bottle.

That said, this is all moot and the comparison between drinking and cycling and drinking and driving is a rubbish one. You are doing completely different things and the damage potential and risk at different levels when driving compared to cycling.

True, they're not the same, but your still on a public road and capable of causing a accident and endangering your life and the life of others just the same.

But you have answered my question. You personally think it's OK to drink whilst riding a bike (albeit in a open road and you slow down). Yet you seem to think that under no circumstances should you drink a soft drink while driving a car?

A little perspective is needed here. Yes WVM doing 70 off a slip road while drinking a mug of tea is clearly foolish. But sat in a traffic jam sipping a Diet Coke isn't really posing a risk to anyone.

MonkeyMonster

RichardSwt wrote:

A little perspective is needed here. Yes WVM doing 70 off a slip road while drinking a mug of tea is clearly foolish. But sat in a traffic jam sipping a Diet Coke isn't really posing a risk to anyone.

Sorry but at what point did the can of stella become diet coke?

thecrofter

MonkeyMonster wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

A little perspective is needed here. Yes WVM doing 70 off a slip road while drinking a mug of tea is clearly foolish. But sat in a traffic jam sipping a Diet Coke isn't really posing a risk to anyone.

Sorry but at what point did the can of stella become diet coke?

Back on about page 1, someone mentioned a conviction for Driving without due care and attention for drinking coke or eating an apple. I've read about someone being done for taking a drink of water at a set of traffic lights.

Monkeypump

spen666 wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

So the guy hadn't committed any offence (from a strictly legal POV), and you don't know if he was actually drunk (i.e. over the legal limit to drive) or not?

Not commenting on the rights/wrongs of your actions, but perhaps a little presumptive?

Not being in control of his car or perhaps driving without due care and attention spring to mind as offences made out (possibly) on the facts

How so? The car was stationary, in a line of traffic, waiting at a set of temp. lights. I'm not sure how much control or due care and attention you can demonstrate when stationary.

Kieran_Burns

MP - it WASN'T stationary (maybe that bit wasn't clear) the car WAS moving albeit slowly.

spen666

Monkeypump wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

So the guy hadn't committed any offence (from a strictly legal POV), and you don't know if he was actually drunk (i.e. over the legal limit to drive) or not?

Not commenting on the rights/wrongs of your actions, but perhaps a little presumptive?

Not being in control of his car or perhaps driving without due care and attention spring to mind as offences made out (possibly) on the facts

How so? The car was stationary, in a line of traffic, waiting at a set of temp. lights. I'm not sure how much control or due care and attention you can demonstrate when stationary.

Try reading the law reports.

I only statedwhat law is, not whty it is so. I am not saying I agree with the law

davmaggs

MonkeyMonster wrote:

RichardSwt wrote:

A little perspective is needed here. Yes WVM doing 70 off a slip road while drinking a mug of tea is clearly foolish. But sat in a traffic jam sipping a Diet Coke isn't really posing a risk to anyone.

Sorry but at what point did the can of stella become diet coke?

Legally it is going to be same if you are under the limit.

What the questioners of the outraged/hang em brigade are pointing out is that the OP may have bullied a man into pouring away perfectly good beer because he was doing something unusual and not as criminal as the OP thought.