David Millar did a lap of Richmond Park on Sunday...

sketchley

What happens when the Olympic Road race goes through the park, does the 20mph limit still legally apply?

keyser__soze

Sketchley, roads will be closed to the public/pedestrians so I doubt it. By the sound of things Millar didn't get any approval to run the TT nor did he do it at a time when the park was shut to traffic. Dynamos run their TT before the park officially opens for traffic but not sure if they get approval from the Parks Police for people to break the limit.

Will be amusing to see the Olympic peloton having to slam on the brakes to avoid errant deer running across the course

rick_chasey

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Sketchley, roads will be closed to the public/pedestrians so I doubt it. By the sound of things Millar didn't get any approval to run the TT nor did he do it at a time when the park was shut to traffic. Dynamos run their TT before the park officially opens for traffic but not sure if they get approval from the Parks Police for people to break the limit.

Will be amusing to see the Olympic peloton having to slam on the brakes to avoid errant deer running across the course

If they do go through the park, surely they'll gate the road either side first?

joelsim

cjcp wrote:

I suspect the same goes for most pros, but the year Millar won the National Road Race (four years ago, near Abergavenny, was it?), someone remarked that trying to follow his wheel was like to follow a motorbike. I think Millar broke away with another chap and it was this other chap who said it.

At that speed, if we both started at Kingston Gate r'about, I would only just have turned at Richmond Gate r'about by the time he'd finished.

Oh my.

I suspect in that time I would have travelled all the way from Kingston Gate to Kingston Gate roundabout.

sketchley

Starting at Roehampton going clockwise how far can you all get in David's time? I'm somewhere half way up Dark Hill.

joelsim

At the bottom of dark hill, pushing my bike up slowly.

notsoblue

Millar apologises to Royal Parks for breaking speed limit

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ecord.html

Does anyone know if the video is hosted anywhere else?

cjcp

notsoblue wrote:

Millar apologises to Royal Parks for breaking speed limit

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ecord.html

Does anyone know if the video is hosted anywhere else?

For breaking the speed limit? For out-running the Police more like, given the speed he was going!

tailwindhome

richVSrich wrote:

Grantstats wrote:

I suggest a TopGear style celebrity cyclist Fastest Lap time board- as Millar did it from a standing start. This could put it into perspective about whether they are going full speed or not. The question is who could be our Stig? Graham Obree? Any other suggestions?

haha, that is actually a really good idea!
lap time
direction
wind
FCN

There is a 3 lap challenge - 3 laps round a park in somewhere called London I think

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12749276

Gutchings .............Anti.........71kg ....48:26........Mar.....CSG.............1st cat (road bike)
Eyepea .................Anti.........n/akg ....49:01........Jun......LD...............1st cat (road bike)
Martinwilly.............Anti..........73kg......49.45........Apr.....LD.............Tester (road bike)
TarmacExpert.......Anti..........70kg......49:45.......Feb......KW..............TTer (road bike) AP 294W NP 307W
Petromyzon......... Anti........75kg.......51.41.......Mar......LD...............AP 360W
paddlemyowncanoe Anti....83kg......52.09......May......LD.......2nd cat vet, road bike
BigMat.................Anti..........82kg......52.25........Apr.......................Dulwich Paragon...Leisure (road bike)
oscar26.................Anti........63kg.......53.06......Apr.....KW................TTer/3cat (road bike)
Rach E............Anti.........60kg.......53:10.......May.....Newbury RC.....Tester (woman)
rjeffroy.............. Anti........72kg.......53:14.......Feb......LD..............2nd cat old git, road bike...AP 281W NP 292W
RaGzMaN............. Anti........78kg......53.30........Apr.........n/a.........Commuter/Fitness...AP 281W NP 290W
pinkbikini.............Anti......82kg.........54.03.......May......LD...............3rd Cat vet
Furrag.................Anti......69.2g.......54:22.......May......KW................Newbie 4th cat
Jibberjim.............. Anti........77kg.......55:09.......Jan......KW..............Club run hero...AP
Airbusboy............Anti..........69kg......55:10.........June.........................Cat 4
Leatham.............. Anti........93kg.......55:15.......May......FoT..............Triathlon (TT Bike)
leejdavies...........Anti..........83kg.......55.45.......June......n/a.............Sportive/fitness
Ed F .................. Anti ....... 68kg? .... 55.47 .... Feb .... KW .......... Commuter / 3rd cat roadie
JonGinge ............... Anti ....... 68kg .... 55.53 .... Apr .... KW .......... Commuter / Sportive
RedGreenBaron..Anti.........70kg.......55.55.......April.....LD..............Sportive vet
Cervezo................Anti......85kg......56.03......Jun...........None.............Road bike
seabadger...........Anti.........80ish......56.09.......May......n/a.............mtb/fitness
Weapons.............Anti......63kg......56:17........Apr.......LD...............4th cat (tt bike)
Bush75............... Anti........78kg......56:24........Mar......LRT............4th Cat
AndyB_1.............Anti......72kg......56:25........Apr........n/a..........Sportive/commuter
Weapons.............Anti......63kg......56:33........Apr.......LD...............4th cat (road bike)
Funkin.................Anti........80kg.....57:07..........Apr........n/a........road bike/tri-bars.... AP 283W NP 292W
CJCP....................anti........79kg.......57:26......Mar.......KW.................Commuter/Sportive
bigdave1963........Anti.......89kg.......57:30.......Mar......KW................Sportive/TT (Rd set-up)
nigelsmith............anti.........71kg......57.31......apr..........LD.............4th cat older git 260 ap
GGBAndrew......Anti.......81kg.......57:31......May........n/a.........Maratona dles Dolomites
Pitchshifter.........Anti.........70kg.......57:42........May......n/a..........Commuter
Gobi.................Anti...........75kg.......57:44.......May.....Newbury RC.....Tester (road bike)
cavcan..............Anti..........102kg.....57:45.......Jun......n/a.............Fitness / tri - road bike
MarkKD...............Anti..........75kg.......58:03......May.....n/a..............Dua/occasional TT - road bike with aero bars
J4zzDogg...........Anti........83kg........58.15......June.....LD..............Commuter/Sportive
JZed.................clock........102kg.......58.33......Apr......KW...............Commuter/Sportive
Birdy247..............anti........70kg.......58:44......Mar.......n/a..................Nothing at the moment, road bike
King Donut..........Anti........90kg.......58:50.......Apr......n/a..........Commuter / fitness
Marko1982..........Anti........80kg.......59:00.......Feb......n/a.............2nd season Triathlete, road bike on drops
nang_flex...................Anti.......82kg.......59:10.......March...n/a.......Sportive/Fitness
FHKJ...................Anti.......80kg.......59:12.......March...n/a.......Sportive/Fitness.....AP 272W
strokemonkey.....anti........81kg.......59:17......Apr.......total novice....Giant TCR Adv 4
parksider...... ....clock.......72kgs.....59.18.....Apr.....none..........road bike / fun
djtjw................ .Anti..........84kg.......59:28.......April......n/a.......Sportive/Fitness/MTB
thebongolian........Anti.........80kg.......59:40.....May.......RPCC.........fitness/sportive
SirUlrich..............Anti.......75kg.......59.46........Mar.......n/a............Lazy student/Fitness
Rushie............... Anti........77kg......60:20........Feb......TCC............4th Cat/Comm/Marmotte
Alan Sherman....Anti.......84kg...60:29.........mar........KWCC..........3rd Cat
RobCycle..........Anti.........74Kg.....60:32........Apr.........N/A.........Fitness
POD.................Anti.......86kg...61:24.........Mar........N/A..........Sportive/Odd race
Pylwagl……..…..Anti………73kg……61.30………….June………n/a…………Allez
TheStone..........Anti.........89Kg.....61:46........May.........N/A.........Commuter/Sportive
POD.................Anti.......86kg...61:57.........Mar........N/A..........Sportive/Odd race
Im Bald Ok..........anti.........71kg......62:28.......Apr.......N/A................Fitness.
London-Red........ Anti........85kg......62:34........Jan......RPCC............Fitness
Cumulonimbus....anti........85kg.......62.35.......Feb.......none..............Fitness
Martinc......Anti.........90kg........62.48.....May.....n/a .......Road bike (no aero bars)
Coopster the 1st...Anti........83kg.......63:21......Mar.......ARCC..........Commuter/Sportive
Rick Chasey........Anti.......55kg.......63.36......Apr.........n/a..............SS road bike
maryka................anti..........62kg.......63:38......Feb........KW..............cat 1w up the duff AP 186w/NP 203w
ajh18..................anti..........62kg......64.37......May........n/a.............Fitness
toontra.................anti........74kg.......64:54......Feb.......n/a..................Audax\
Climber_Andy......anti.......70kg.......65:00.....May.......n/a..........Fitness/sportive
wind700............Anti...........80kg.....65.25.......mar.......n/a...............Fitness
KnightoftheLongTights.....anti........70kg.......65:31......Jan.......n/a....Fitness
Chunkytfg........... Anti.........125kg.....67.03......Mar..........n/a............ 15m just to get to RP!
Gert_lush............anti........65kg.......67.5........Jan.......Teaclub..........SCR - Dawes superGalaxy
Molloy............anti........77kg.......67.28........May.......n/a..........Fitness/commuter
Seanoconn........ Anti.........80kg.......68:35......Jan........n/a................Fitness/commuter
GWiz.................Anti.........98kg......70:01......Mar........n/a................Flat bar fixie
Greenbank........Anti.........83kg......71:07......May........n/a................Audax (AP 210W NP 231W)
Freeza...............Anti.........65kg......71.14......May........n/a...............Fitness/Commuter
Wisepranker....Anti......82kg.......72:03......Apr........n/a................Beginner/Fitness
Frag75.................Anti.........85kg......72:25......Jan........n/a................

thelawnet

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Sketchley, roads will be closed to the public/pedestrians so I doubt it. By the sound of things Millar didn't get any approval to run the TT nor did he do it at a time when the park was shut to traffic. Dynamos run their TT before the park officially opens for traffic but not sure if they get approval from the Parks Police for people to break the limit.

I thought the 20mph speed limit was for the protection of wildlife?

mattsaw

thelawnet wrote:

Keyser__Soze wrote:

Sketchley, roads will be closed to the public/pedestrians so I doubt it. By the sound of things Millar didn't get any approval to run the TT nor did he do it at a time when the park was shut to traffic. Dynamos run their TT before the park officially opens for traffic but not sure if they get approval from the Parks Police for people to break the limit.

I thought the 20mph speed limit was for the protection of wildlife?

The'll cage them all up for the duration of the Olympics

joelsim

There were an awful lot of cyclists going faster than 20 in RP this lunchtime.

jzed

Taken form the 3 lap challenge posting:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Hi all,

The following has been brought to my attention and I need to pass it on:

The Royal Parks are very sensitive about this thread as there's a 20mph speed limit in the park that applies to all vehicles, including bicycles.

It's not easy to take a cyclist to court, but the Parks Police say they will make an example of any rider who cycles in a dangerous manner. So please be mindful of other park users when riding in Richmond Park. Your fast lap or poor behaviour could (even if you're not prosecuted) lead to a general clamp down, which we'd all rather avoid.

On a more positive note, there are official time trials run in Richmond Park by forum member Bexslack (who won silver behind Julia Shaw in the national 50 last weekend!). These are a great way to get into time trialling and should be supported by BR forumites. Details in this google document.

Spoil sports.

bigmat

I suppose its fair enough, nobody bettering the hour mark can claim to have not knowingly exceeded the speed limit. They could just change the speed limit for bikes of course, that would be nice and easy.

Anyone else doing the TT on Sunday? I'm off at 6:40 :shock: - not feeling good, just got chewed up and spat out the back at Palace after 25 minutes so not convinced the form is there...

roger_merriman

even over a hour there are going to be points where one is doing 20mph plus, according to the iphone I have done a more than double that down Sawyers, just freewheeling away.

so you could get done with out trying as ignorance is no excuse.

To be honest I'm suprised it's taken this long as the park has clearly being turning a blind eye.

rick_chasey

What danger do the cyclist pose if they are going over 20mph, as opposed to just under?

I thought the point of the speed limit was to chill the cars out, which works (take note tories...)

As long as you give way when appropriate (say, for a deer or whatever) which most people seem to there, I can't see the big problem. Visibility is good either side of the road for the most part, etc.

sketchley

I think the park were happy up to the point bbc published the David Millar artical. At which point they had to be seen to be doing something. I suspect following getting that artical taken down they then went searching for others. So blame David, or Wiggle. Don't be surprised if Park Police bust a few people in the next few weeks but I suspect it will calm down over time.

notsoblue

Rick Chasey wrote:

What danger do the cyclist pose if they are going over 20mph, as opposed to just under?

I thought the point of the speed limit was to chill the cars out, which works (take note tories...)

As long as you give way when appropriate (say, for a deer or whatever) which most people seem to there, I can't see the big problem. Visibility is good either side of the road for the most part, etc.

I'm a big fan of trying to cycle round Richmond Park as fast as I can, but I have some sympathy for those who approve of the speed limit for cyclists. Some people ride like d*cks in an attempt to beat their PB and this can be unnerving for the slower cyclists.

Some friends of mine (not regular cyclists) were out for a pootle last weekend and while going up Broomfield they had two near misses in quick succession from roadies come down "on their side of the road" and experienced a few close overtakes.

This is just an anecdote, but it is from two people who aren't usually negative about cyclists, but had had a pretty negative experience of cyclists riding recklessly while breaking the speed limit in the park.

As you say, so long as people give way there isn't really a problem, but I guess the issue is that there are quite a few that don't. I'm fine with the status quo to be honest, the police don't crack down that heavily on cyclists breaking the limit. But do occaisionally stand at the bottom of Sawyers with a speed gun. I'm fine with slowing down for that every couple of weeks.

jonginge

Sketchley wrote:

I think the park were happy up to the point bbc published the David Millar artical. At which point they had to be seen to be doing something. I suspect following getting that artical taken down they then went searching for others. So blame David, or Wiggle. Don't be surprised if Park Police bust a few people in the next few weeks but I suspect it will calm down over time.

I've been in the park quite a lot the last couple of weekends and, oddly enough, I haven't seen the police circulating at all. This is in contrast to earlier in the year when I saw them every visit. YMMV

I'm fairly certain the original reason for the 20mph was to reduce wildlife roadkill. If a cyclist hits a deer and I know who's going to be worse off...

veronese68

As with everywhere else some people do ride or drive stupidly. I live close to the park and take my kids up there every week or two. Most people are fine. Some of the large groups travelling at very high speed can get a bit silly. I believe there was a serious accident a while back with one.
I also don't understand why people cycle on the road on mountain bikes, I'd much rather be on the shared path. Some people ride like idiots on the shared path. My daughter is 9 and quite nervous on a bike. But people hurtle past leaving her very little space.
I just wish people would be a little more considerate to other users of the park.
i try not to cycle in the park when I know it will be busy.
Regarding the deer. 2 people I know have collided with deer on bikes, the people on bikes, not the deer. The first was on a road bike at speed, broke his frame and was quite badly hurt himself. The second was on the shared path and a deer jumped out of the bushes in front of him. The impact wasn't too hard but he got quite nasty gravel rash on his face.

rick_chasey

Was anyone at Richmond park yesterday around 8ish?

Saw a hilarious sight > big dynamo chain gang caught up with a police car. Was like the canada GP, with the police as the safety car.

greg66_tri_v2.0

JZed wrote:

Taken form the 3 lap challenge posting:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Hi all,

The following has been brought to my attention and I need to pass it on:

The Royal Parks are very sensitive about this thread as there's a 20mph speed limit in the park that applies to all vehicles, including bicycles.

It's not easy to take a cyclist to court, but the Parks Police say they will make an example of any rider who cycles in a dangerous manner. So please be mindful of other park users when riding in Richmond Park. Your fast lap or poor behaviour could (even if you're not prosecuted) lead to a general clamp down, which we'd all rather avoid.

On a more positive note, there are official time trials run in Richmond Park by forum member Bexslack (who won silver behind Julia Shaw in the national 50 last weekend!). These are a great way to get into time trialling and should be supported by BR forumites. Details in this google document.

Spoil sports.

Interesting factoid: the Richmond Park bye-law specifically extends the speed limit in the Park to bicycles. Generally bicycles are not subject to the posted speed limits on the road because the legislation refers to motor vehicles.

cjcp

Greg66 wrote:

JZed wrote:

Taken form the 3 lap challenge posting:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Hi all,

The following has been brought to my attention and I need to pass it on:

The Royal Parks are very sensitive about this thread as there's a 20mph speed limit in the park that applies to all vehicles, including bicycles.

It's not easy to take a cyclist to court, but the Parks Police say they will make an example of any rider who cycles in a dangerous manner. So please be mindful of other park users when riding in Richmond Park. Your fast lap or poor behaviour could (even if you're not prosecuted) lead to a general clamp down, which we'd all rather avoid.

On a more positive note, there are official time trials run in Richmond Park by forum member Bexslack (who won silver behind Julia Shaw in the national 50 last weekend!). These are a great way to get into time trialling and should be supported by BR forumites. Details in this google document.

Spoil sports.

Interesting factoid: the Richmond Park bye-law specifically extends the speed limit in the Park to bicycles. Generally bicycles are not subject to the posted speed limits on the road because the legislation refers to motor vehicles.

Yep, this gets raised on our club forum every now and again. There may be some quirk about enforcement of certain rules, too i.e. needs to be done by the Met rather than Parks Police, but don't quote me on that.

Also, one chap (this wasn't a bloke down the pub who had it on good authority from some mate of his; he was a cyclist who'd been pulled up on this) said that you can't technically do laps after the Park's closed because it's a right of way through it or something. So, to get round it, you have to ride from, say, Kingston Gate to Roehampton Gate, out Roe. Gate, back in, back out at Kingston Gate, back in etc., etc.

Again, don't quote me on that.

spasypaddy

cjcp wrote:

Yep, this gets raised on our club forum every now and again. There may be some quirk about enforcement of certain rules, too i.e. needs to be done by the Met rather than Parks Police, but don't quote me on that.

Also, one chap (this wasn't a bloke down the pub who had it on good authority from some mate of his; he was a cyclist who'd been pulled up on this) said that you can't technically do laps after the Park's closed because it's a right of way through it or something. So, to get round it, you have to ride from, say, Kingston Gate to Roehampton Gate, out Roe. Gate, back in, back out at Kingston Gate, back in etc., etc.

Again, don't quote me on that.

Quoted

charliew87

this clip must exist somewhere on the internet, surely!?

frazered

Works fine