What core strength/non bike exercises do you do?

EightOhEight

What core strength/non bike exercises do you do?

P_Tucker

I find mowing the lawn regularly helps with my climbing, and watering the tomatoes gives me a fearsome kick dor use when sprinting.

kettrinboy

For the last 3 months or so, most days apart from some rest days from each discipline, Ive been doing a set of 40-45 press ups,120 -150 sit ups , 200-400 dumbell arm curls, 150-200 dumbell overheads using 20lb dumbells, while it keeps my upper body fairly well toned as far as i can tell its had little if any effect on my cycling performance, theres been a few threads on here about whether core training aids cycling performance, from my own experience i would have agree with those who say no not really,i just do the other excercises to keep up a base level of all round fitness.

Headhuunter

kettrinboy wrote:

For the last 3 months or so, most days apart from some rest days from each discipline, Ive been doing a set of 40-45 press ups,120 -150 sit ups , 200-400 dumbell arm curls, 150-200 dumbell overheads using 20lb dumbells, while it keeps my upper body fairly well toned as far as i can tell its had little if any effect on my cycling performance, theres been a few threads on here about whether core training aids cycling performance, from my own experience i would have agree with those who say no not really,i just do the other excercises to keep up a base level of all round fitness.

Except that none of the excersises decsribed there targets the core....!

christurbo

I weight train 3 times a week which consists of compound exercises:

BB/DB Flat Bench
BB/DB Incline Bench
BB/DB Decline Bench
BB/DB Overhead Press
BB Upright Rows
BB Floor Presses
BB Deadlifts
BB/DB Bent Over Rows
BB Good Mornings
BB SLDLs

Etc.

I dont have time for any 'polishing' exercises like I used to when I used to bodybuild. My main aim is to retain as much muscle mass as I can in this highly catabolic sport.

Herbsman

I like to do push ups, sit-ups and chin-ups just to maintain some upper body strength. Nothing to do with cycling performance but my lower back seems to hurt less after a few weeks of those basic exercises.

I have been dropped in a couple of road races due to excruciating back pain so definitely worth doing.

amaferanga

None.

Do you have a weak core?

Slack

Bit of yoga stretching and surfing.

Garz

They get re-listed regularly on all the cycling mags usually consisting of planks, squats and swiss ball exercises.

trickydisco

None.

Do you have a weak core?

IEven top athletes can suffer from a weak core

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7yTIHUBpb8

I know a few top level mtb and road racers incorporate core workouts into their training

Headhuunter

amaferanga wrote:

None.

Do you have a weak core?

If yuo cycle to any great degree but do not do core strengthening exercises, your core is likely to be weak in relation to your upper leg muscles (quads and hams), so some degree of core strengthening is important to help offset the power you push through your legs...

Xommul

Anyone heard of P90X??

This is my training programme,

Its a set 90 day activity split into 30 day periods. Every dy you work out on different body parts

Set 1
Monday - Chest n back
Tuesday Plyometrics (jump/leg strength training)
Wednesday - Shoulder/Arms
Thursday - Yoga (awsome work out - increase flexabilit)
Friday - Legs and back
Saturday - Kenpo (boxing circuit)
Sunday - 1 hour of stretching.

On Mon/Wed/Fri - you do core and stomach work out too

You get all the work outs on video and a full nutrition guide.

You can find it all online, you have to pay for the programme unless you are fiendish and find it for free somehow (i dont advocate this ofc)

But it is truly amazing for strength training, it has many of the same exercises seen on youtube cyclist stregth training vids, its fun to follow and very motivational.

You can fit this in around cycling or take what you want from it.

Xom

amaferanga

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

None.

Do you have a weak core?

If yuo cycle to any great degree but do not do core strengthening exercises, your core is likely to be weak in relation to your upper leg muscles (quads and hams), so some degree of core strengthening is important to help offset the power you push through your legs...

Is this a FACT based on scientific research?

Headhuunter

amaferanga wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

None.

Do you have a weak core?

If yuo cycle to any great degree but do not do core strengthening exercises, your core is likely to be weak in relation to your upper leg muscles (quads and hams), so some degree of core strengthening is important to help offset the power you push through your legs...

Is this a FACT based on scientific research?

Yes. I'm not saying that people who cycle a lot always have weak core muscles, what I'm saying is that cyclists naturally build strong quads and hamstrings which are then often out of balance in their strength in relation to the core muscles (or for that matter muscles elsewhere in the body). It is pretty simple to see that cycling is not an all over body strengthening exercise and primarily targets specific muscles, unlike, say swimming. Stretching the hams and quads can also help relieve strain on related muscles. It's all pretty much common sense....

Pep

EightOhEight wrote:

What core strength/non bike exercises do you do?

Gluteous strengthening.
Instructed by the physio to fight ITB and patella tendon pain.
They seem to help, 10yr younger I thought they were waste of time...

Plus 10min stretching after each ride.

I also run and swim, because I like them, but they are not core exercises.

amaferanga

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

None.

Do you have a weak core?

If yuo cycle to any great degree but do not do core strengthening exercises, your core is likely to be weak in relation to your upper leg muscles (quads and hams), so some degree of core strengthening is important to help offset the power you push through your legs...

Is this a FACT based on scientific research?

Yes. I'm not saying that people who cycle a lot always have weak core muscles, what I'm saying is that cyclists naturally build strong quads and hamstrings which are then often out of balance in their strength in relation to the core muscles (or for that matter muscles elsewhere in the body). It is pretty simple to see that cycling is not an all over body strengthening exercise and primarily targets specific muscles, unlike, say swimming. Stretching the hams and quads can also help relieve strain on related muscles. It's all pretty much common sense....

There's no such thing as common sense.

You're making lots of assumptions there - not many facts. Sounds like the sort of stuff you read in Cycling Plus actually....

Alex_Simmons/RST

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes. I'm not saying that people who cycle a lot always have weak core muscles, what I'm saying is that cyclists naturally build strong quads and hamstrings which are then often out of balance in their strength in relation to the core muscles (or for that matter muscles elsewhere in the body).

Cycling doesn't build strong quads or hamstrings. Indeed it might even reduce one's strength.

Cycling lots will develop the core sufficiently to manage cycling a lot just like it does for all the muscles used - it's not like this magical group of muscles that don't behave like all the others in our body. If you want to do non-bike core work for other reasons, cool.

Headhuunter wrote:

It is pretty simple to see that cycling is not an all over body strengthening exercise and primarily targets specific muscles, unlike, say swimming. Stretching the hams and quads can also help relieve strain on related muscles. It's all pretty much common sense....

Yep, that's correct, cycling does not develop strength.

But since the OP was about non bike core exercises and didn't specifically talk about using non-bike core exercise work related to cycling performance, there's not a lot to add.

People like to do other forms of exercise for many reasons.

Headhuunter

amaferanga wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

None.

Do you have a weak core?

If yuo cycle to any great degree but do not do core strengthening exercises, your core is likely to be weak in relation to your upper leg muscles (quads and hams), so some degree of core strengthening is important to help offset the power you push through your legs...

Is this a FACT based on scientific research?

Yes. I'm not saying that people who cycle a lot always have weak core muscles, what I'm saying is that cyclists naturally build strong quads and hamstrings which are then often out of balance in their strength in relation to the core muscles (or for that matter muscles elsewhere in the body). It is pretty simple to see that cycling is not an all over body strengthening exercise and primarily targets specific muscles, unlike, say swimming. Stretching the hams and quads can also help relieve strain on related muscles. It's all pretty much common sense....

There's no such thing as common sense.

You're making lots of assumptions there - not many facts. Sounds like the sort of stuff you read in Cycling Plus actually....

Well, it's up to you what you believe. It's accepted as fact in physiological circles and probably reported in Cycling Plus (what's wrong with that?).

It's logical that certain sports will emphasise certain muscles. This is exactly why most training programmes encourage cross training to prevent over use injuries. Cyclists are among the worst sportpeople for cross training or comprehensively stretching muscles after exercise. I am frequently7 shocked at the lack of flexibility in cyclists in my club have - most of them can barely reach down to their toes!

Strong, tight hamstrings in particular, in relation to weak back and core muscles lead to back pain as the tighter, stronger hams pull on the weaker core. Stretching the hams (and quads) and strengthening the core provides a firmer base from which to drive the pedals.

When you push on the pedal, what do you think you are pushing upwards against? Thin air? It's your core which primarily counterbalances the immense pressure you put through the pedals. A stronger core provides a firmer base from which to push downwards and a stronger support for your body stretched across the bike.

Anyway, I have nothing to prove to you. You carry on as you wish....

Headhuunter

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Cycling lots will develop the core sufficiently to manage cycling a lot just like it does for all the muscles used

I think that's highly debatable! Even if it does, developing the core and balance muscles build a firmer base from which to drive the pedals.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Headhuunter wrote:

It's your core which primarily counterbalances the immense pressure you put through the pedals.

Are you aware of the actual magnitude of forces we put through the pedals when cycling?

Hint: They ain't as high as you seem to be implying.

Headhuunter

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

It's your core which primarily counterbalances the immense pressure you put through the pedals.

Are you aware of the actual magnitude of forces we put through the pedals when cycling?

Hint: They ain't as high as you seem to be implying.

Are you? I'm not saying everyone has legs like the pistons of a steam train, I'm simply saying that a strong core will counterbalance the forces put through the legs more effectively. Especially over a long ride...

trickydisco

Cycling lots will develop the core sufficiently to manage cycling a lot just like it does for all the muscles used - it's not like this magical group of muscles that don't behave like all the others in our body. If you want to do non-bike core work for other reasons, cool.

So are you saying if you cycle you don't need to do any core strengthening work off the bike as riding will do this?

Chinley Churner

The whole core debate is a classic example of look at the middle way and you'll find the answer. Core evangelists will have you wobbling around on a Swiss Ball for hours on end and Old Skool cycling traditionalists believe that the only training for cycling is cycling.

Cycling locks you in a fixed position for hours on end which can lead to problems such as soft tissue imbalances and overuse issues. Performing supplementary exercises such as stretching, strengthening work and even running (shock horror!) can help prevent this. Don't get hung up with exercises being "core specific". Most compound exercises such as squats, lunges etc all use and recruit the core. If they didn't you'd collapse in a heap. Think about press-ups... pretty like a plank with some up and down action thrown in.

Personally I make sure I do some upper body work (climbing, press-ups and pull-ups) on top of my cycling and running simply because, as a cyclist, I've never quite got over the shame of Joop Zoetemelk being able to do a single dip on SuperStars. Also a top physio friend of mine is a big believer in the Robust or Bust philosophy. Training and strengthening outside of your chosen sport might not directly improve your performance in that sport but it'll allow you to carry on doing that sport because you won't bugger yourself up doing the gardening or lifting your kid out the car.

squeeler

"Also a top physio friend of mine is a big believer in the Robust or Bust philosophy. Training and strengthening outside of your chosen sport might not directly improve your performance in that sport but it'll allow you to carry on doing that sport because you won't bugger yourself up doing the gardening or lifting your kid out the car."

I like this attitude, personally I want a healthy all round fitness and not be a fat b'stard so maybe a bit of vanity thrown in as well, I'm not to concerned about having perfect cycling fitness, though I'm pretty damn far from this!

A good variety of exercise, core targeted or not, rather than just cycling should be best for most of us "normal" people to lead a healthier life?

amaferanga

Chinley Churner wrote:

....Personally I make sure I do some upper body work (climbing, press-ups and pull-ups) on top of my cycling and running simply because, as a cyclist, I've never quite got over the shame of Joop Zoetemelk being able to do a single dip on SuperStars....

From your avatar looks like you're carrying a lot of muscle mass up top and so a lot of unnecessary weight.

Also, what happened to your sleeves and are you wearing gators?

vorsprung

I do long distance riding. When I first started on it I did a lot of core work and it seemed to help. I don't believe this stuff about the "huge" forces in the legs and the core balancing it out. Your body is supported by the core muscles and in the unusual ( in the sense that we don't often spend 12+ hours a day riding) position on the saddle the way the core works need to be able to cope with that position.

Steve Hogg explains it better than me in this article

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the ... e-position

Chinley Churner

amaferanga wrote:

Chinley Churner wrote:

....Personally I make sure I do some upper body work (climbing, press-ups and pull-ups) on top of my cycling and running simply because, as a cyclist, I've never quite got over the shame of Joop Zoetemelk being able to do a single dip on SuperStars....

From your avatar looks like you're carrying a lot of muscle mass up top and so a lot of unnecessary weight.

Also, what happened to your sleeves and are you wearing gators?

I'm slightly compressed in the avatar... 190.5cm and 79kg so, reasonably proportioned I think. Racing a duathlon in it so, got to show off the guns and the calf guards are compulsory

Headhuunter

Chinley Churner wrote:

The whole core debate is a classic example of look at the middle way and you'll find the answer. Core evangelists will have you wobbling around on a Swiss Ball for hours on end and Old Skool cycling traditionalists believe that the only training for cycling is cycling.

Cycling locks you in a fixed position for hours on end which can lead to problems such as soft tissue imbalances and overuse issues. Performing supplementary exercises such as stretching, strengthening work and even running (shock horror!) can help prevent this. Don't get hung up with exercises being "core specific". Most compound exercises such as squats, lunges etc all use and recruit the core. If they didn't you'd collapse in a heap. Think about press-ups... pretty like a plank with some up and down action thrown in.

Personally I make sure I do some upper body work (climbing, press-ups and pull-ups) on top of my cycling and running simply because, as a cyclist, I've never quite got over the shame of Joop Zoetemelk being able to do a single dip on SuperStars. Also a top physio friend of mine is a big believer in the Robust or Bust philosophy. Training and strengthening outside of your chosen sport might not directly improve your performance in that sport but it'll allow you to carry on doing that sport because you won't bugger yourself up doing the gardening or lifting your kid out the car.

Yes! I'd pretty much go along with all that, the only reason I honed in on the core is that the original question seemed to be asking about that and also the core DOES effectively counterbalance the pressure you put through the pedals. Of course it's not the only thing that balances you but it is integral.

I go to the gym 3x per week to do upper body work mainly in an attempt to offset the muscle build in the legs through cycling. Doing core exercises doesn't necessarily build enormous strength in the core but it makes you much more aware of those muscles and more able to recruit them in cycling. I find I am more able to "switch on" my core when necessary...

The number of times I see people discussing back pain on these pages and I wonder to myself whether it could have been solved by ongoing strengthening. Of course this may not always be the case, but in my experience, cyclists are all too quick to believe that any pain is down to not having the latest component on their bike, or not having paid up for a bike fit, or not having the right saddle or the right frame geometry when all they need to do is a bit more work on the engine that drives the machine - their bodies.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Headhuunter wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

It's your core which primarily counterbalances the immense pressure you put through the pedals.

Are you aware of the actual magnitude of forces we put through the pedals when cycling?

Hint: They ain't as high as you seem to be implying.

Are you? I'm not saying everyone has legs like the pistons of a steam train, I'm simply saying that a strong core will counterbalance the forces put through the legs more effectively. Especially over a long ride...

Yes. Very aware.

A quick inspection of a power meter files using Quadrant Analysis will show the forces.

Or you could just do the maths:
e.g. 300 watts on 175mm cranks at 90rpm would require an average effective pedal force from both legs of 182 Newtons, or the equivalent force of 18.6kg with Earth's gravity.

Over a long ride I'm guessing not many people here will be averaging 300W, so let's say 200W (still a pretty darn solid long ride for most) - meaning you need to apply an average effective pedal force of ~ 12.5kg from both legs.

That's not a strength issue, unless you are exceptionally frail to the point that you could not get out of a chair.

Or maybe check the research into pedal forces done by a number of people, which provides data such as the following charts:

Pedal force data by Kautz:


or the data by Coyle et al showing pedal forces from elite national and state level time trial riders:

Alex_Simmons/RST

trickydisco wrote:

Cycling lots will develop the core sufficiently to manage cycling a lot just like it does for all the muscles used - it's not like this magical group of muscles that don't behave like all the others in our body. If you want to do non-bike core work for other reasons, cool.

So are you saying if you cycle you don't need to do any core strengthening work off the bike as riding will do this?

No. If you need core strength for activities other than bike riding (which is what the OP was about I thought), then off the bike core work will be helpful. No argument there.

What I am saying is:

i. for most* people, off the bike core work won't improve endurance cycling performance (it won't hinder it either - unless it eats into valuable on bike training time - especially those for whom endurance cycling performance is the priority)

ii. endurance cycling is not a strength sport (the forces are significantly sub-maximal), so a focus on strength is a folly

iii. that endurance cycling exercises (e.g. hillclimbs, hard tempo, intervals, sprints, endurance rides etc) will provide the core (and all the relevant muscle groups) with the stimulus needed to improve cycling performance, since it is being provided in a sports specific manner

iv. the best training for improving cycling performance is cycling

* there are some of course that have specific issues of frailty or injury that needs addressing and for whom such exercise would be useful

Alex_Simmons/RST

Headhuunter wrote:

The number of times I see people discussing back pain on these pages and I wonder to myself whether it could have been solved by ongoing strengthening. Of course this may not always be the case, but in my experience, cyclists are all too quick to believe that any pain is down to not having the latest component on their bike, or not having paid up for a bike fit, or not having the right saddle or the right frame geometry when all they need to do is a bit more work on the engine that drives the machine - their bodies.

The biggest causes of (non crash) injury in cycling are poor bike fit and attempting to do more training (acutely or chronically) than a rider is ready/prepared for.