When Margaret Thatcher Dies....

Drysuitdiver

Cornerblock wrote:

I am sure we can find one or two miners willing to dig the grave. Or if she wants cremation...mmmm let me think....how can we get the fire started.......?

theres more than enough ex miners ready to dig the hole , deep enough to deliver her to satan personally. (courtesy of Frankie Boyle)


she was a strong a leader. note the difference between strong and good. she wasn't blameless for the miners, scargill certainly walked the miners down the path. what sort of idiot goes on strike in a fuel supply industry in the spring . he failed to plan. power stations had been stockpiling coal for months as they had an inkling of what was coming.

she was certainly the architect of the state we are in now.

TuckerUK

Wasn't Lady Thatcher responsible for keeping the US in tow (remember they backed the argies initially!), and for talking Reagan around to ending the 'Cold War' and therefore bringing about the fall of the 'Iron Curtain'?

She also famously sent in certain very ‘Special’ troops (of course they were on 'vacation' at the time), to fight for our friends opposite US forces in some far away country!

Her policies were generally sound, Blair copied most of them instead of having any original thoughts of his own. But he also sold the UK down the river to the US, and will be remember for his treasonable acts towards the Queen.

The 'Poll Tax' was a very fair tax, such a shame that we let a few thousand great unwashed dictate its demise because they were worried about the Big Brother aspect. Where were they when Labour suggested introduction of ID Cards then???? Oh yes, that's fine because it's labour! :roll:

StillGoing

Rick Chasey wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

I was soldier during the Thatcher years and have to say she was very good for me. .

In what way?

I thought sending soldiers into battle for what appear to be at best marginal and party gains was not a good way to treat soldiers?

Rick, at the time there was very little in the way of genuine operational deployment besides NI, the majority of soldiers were glad of an opportunity to use their prowess for real rather than in some exercise or by stagging on and cleaning kit for the umpteenth time. She gave the military a huge pay increase that saw private soldiers rates of pay with the local overseas allowance rocket enough for them to be buying Porches in Germany. It was widely known that the best rank was as a married Corporal with two kids in substandard married quarters. You paid very little rent and if on operations or exercise, you got free rations and a temporary reduction in your family accomodation costs back home.

Buckled_Rims

TuckerUK wrote:

The 'Poll Tax' was a very fair tax, such a shame that we let a few thousand great unwashed dictate its demise because they were worried about the Big Brother aspect. Where were they when Labour suggested introduction of ID Cards then???? Oh yes, that's fine because it's labour! :roll:

Is that the same poll tax that Prince Charles paid less tax then his servant did? :shock:

BelgianBeerGeek

Philthy3 has it spot on. Best rank - Cpl AFV commander, once you hit the Sgt's mess the bills rocketed apparently. In my case I was only a trooper in Germany and at 20 was driving an Audi 100 and still had more money to spend on beer than I could (not through want of trying). Oh and Mrs T meant my mum and dad could buy their house. God bless her

fleshtuxedo

eh wrote:

What is so great about France? Place has a far lower standard of living than over here.

I'm imagining you define standard of living in terms of cold hard cash? The difference in 2009 was 3%, hardly FAR lower is it?

I think there's other ways you could define standard of living that would have France way ahead of UK - social cohesion, public amenities, health, mental wellbeing, etc etc. But maybe you don't regard these as important?

Smokin Joe

Rick Chasey wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

I was soldier during the Thatcher years and have to say she was very good for me. .[/quote

I thought sending soldiers into battle for what appear to be at best marginal and party gains was not a good way to treat soldiers?

Utter rubbish.

British Territory was invaded by a foreign power, No government of any colour nor any nation state would have stood for that without taking military action to regain it's own land. The Falklands was a just war and a great triumph for Britain, unlike the mess Tony lied through his teeth to get us involved in.

morstar

FleshTuxedo wrote:

I think there's other ways you could define standard of living that would have France way ahead of UK - social cohesion, public amenities, health, mental wellbeing, etc etc. But maybe you don't regard these as important?

Well said. People just don't seem to get this do they!
It's not utopia but France has a far superior work life balance. It's a beautiful country witha totally different outlook. Wake up and smell the coffee.

As to the couple of soldiers glorying in how well off they were under Thatcher, I know it's light hearted but doesn't that pretty much sum up the Thatcher legacy: I'm alright Jack?

bompington

morstar wrote:

Well said. People just don't seem to get this do they!
It's not utopia but France has a far superior work life balance. It's a beautiful country witha totally different outlook. Wake up and smell the coffee

It always cheers me up when I'm in France, to look around and see that all the euro taxes we pay haven't been wasted

Big Hairy Wallapers

Just to clarify a fact....
Margaret Thatcher did not destroy the mining industry, the union led militant miners did.
Hell bent on striking until they destroyed their own industry and in turn their own jobs.
It's happened before and it has happened since.
The bone idle postmen will be the next ones to do it.
The sensible hard working postmen with a brain will adapt in a competitive industry the old militants will dig their heels in and strike because they've been asked to do a days work for a days pay!

Never mind eh?

rake

ive been told its similar to the british car industry with red robbo. thatcher was before my adult time though so cant really comment on that.

daviesee

I am a walking contradiction.

Here goes. I am Scottish and was made redundant a few times during her reign, some directly due to her policies, some indirectly. I had to move location various times and even abroad to find work. I never even had the opportunity to gain through the right to buy.

i should hate her, right?

No.

When I look at my old friends who by luck or misfortune have never had to move, they all appear to have a small town outlook and even more importantly, very few are happy.
It wasn't easy and damned inconvenient but I am the better man for it all.
I won't mourn her passing but I won't celebrate it either.
Just for clarification, I don't vote Tory.

Buckled_Rims

Smokin Joe wrote:

British Territory was invaded by a foreign power, No government of any colour nor any nation state would have stood for that without taking military action to regain it's own land. The Falklands was a just war and a great triumph for Britain, unlike the mess Tony lied through his teeth to get us involved in.

So how do you explain Thatcher doing nothing when the US invaded a British dependency of Grenada in the 1980's without telling the UK government? The Queen was head of the Grenadan government after all :shock:

If I remember correctly, the US was condemned by the UK in the United Nations but vetoed the motion of condemnation. This part of Thatcher history has been hidden under the carpet very conveniently.

Crapaud

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

Just to clarify a fact....
Margaret Thatcher did not destroy the mining industry, the union led militant miners did.
Hell bent on striking until they destroyed their own industry and in turn their own jobs.
It's happened before and it has happened since.
The bone idle postmen will be the next ones to do it.
The sensible hard working postmen with a brain will adapt in a competitive industry the old militants will dig their heels in and strike because they've been asked to do a days work for a days pay!

Never mind eh?

You've got that arse over tit! The milk snatcher did set out to destroy the unions - she wouldn't have had MI5 infiltrate the union offices and agitators planted amongst the strikers otherwise. Scargill correctly saw what she was planning before most did, hence the strikes. It was the same with her support for Murdoch and the print unions. The council house sell-off was part of the plan: if you've got a mortgage you're less likely to strike if you could lose your home, a divide and conquer strategy.

I was no fan of the unions - they had far too much power - but it's swung far too far the other way. In the last 25 years or so I've watched as hard fought for rights have been slowly eaten away.

The snatcher was an evil boot who only saw the value of anything in £ signs.

Tom Butcher

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

Just to clarify a fact....
Margaret Thatcher did not destroy the mining industry, the union led militant miners did.
Hell bent on striking until they destroyed their own industry and in turn their own jobs.
It's happened before and it has happened since.

Yes just look at all the pits they've got in Nottinghamshire now.

StillGoing

morstar wrote:

FleshTuxedo wrote:

I think there's other ways you could define standard of living that would have France way ahead of UK - social cohesion, public amenities, health, mental wellbeing, etc etc. But maybe you don't regard these as important?

Well said. People just don't seem to get this do they!
It's not utopia but France has a far superior work life balance. It's a beautiful country witha totally different outlook. Wake up and smell the coffee.

As to the couple of soldiers glorying in how well off they were under Thatcher, I know it's light hearted but doesn't that pretty much sum up the Thatcher legacy: I'm alright Jack?

The thread is in poor taste IMO and I offered up that she did me and thousands of others in the armed services no harm and in fact improved my lot. Conversely Labour under Callaghan were fucking up the military big style. The Thatcher years were very good for millions of others too. What's one man's bread is another man's poison.

Big Hairy Wallapers

I didn't get it 'base over apex' I said she didn't set out to destroy the mining industry, the militant striking miners led by the unions done that.
She realised as everyone with a brain cell did that the unions had too much power and she needed to regain control from them.
Any how, who cares they paid the price and got what they wanted, They don't need to go to work now!!

Nothing wrong with being driven by £££,
It's called ambition and thrives in a free market economy!

tobermory

Its easy to blame her for the ills of the 80's,well i am old enough to remember the 70's where every body had a grievance and strikes were weekly ,we had flying pickets secondary picketing.
And while our union leaders brought the country to a standstill and held it to ransom the rest of the world laughed at us and got on with producing goods and taking the markets we had.It was that situation which caused Maggie's war on the union barons of the eighties.
Sure she did some grim and unpleasant things,and she gave people the right to buy.
Which now leaves us with an housing shortage as not all people have the means to buy.But before she is blamed for everything look at the unions before her they are the one that left this country devoid of most of it's industry.
With the old saying OUT BROTHERS OUT!

nikle

May be thread is in poor taste, but so what.

It's not like folks don't have a real distaste for maggie, its a real not a media driven hype poster bad boy image of a bearded terrorist held up all the time for us to hate.

The pro thatcher shills always seem to bang on about free market forces for some reason as an excuse to move factories abroad or lay off staff on the whim of company directors.

We seem to be getting poorer not wealthier under the current BAU, Tesco's now has 7 stores in the town where I live -population of less , no small enterprising fellow has a chance really.
Too me its like communism where there is 1 state shop and 1 newspaper.

You have to regulate or there ends up with no competition, plus didn't she end school milk and free dental check ups boy it just went on & on.

tobermory

you make some good point's and i agree she did create pull the rope up jack and bugger the rest.

Smokin Joe

tobermory wrote:

Its easy to blame her for the ills of the 80's,well i am old enough to remember the 70's where every body had a grievance and strikes were weekly ,we had flying pickets secondary picketing.
And while our union leaders brought the country to a standstill and held it to ransom the rest of the world laughed at us and got on with producing goods and taking the markets we had.It was that situation which caused Maggie's war on the union barons of the eighties.
Sure she did some grim and unpleasant things,and she gave people the right to buy.
Which now leaves us with an housing shortage as not all people have the means to buy.But before she is blamed for everything look at the unions before her they are the one that left this country devoid of most of it's industry.
With the old saying OUT BROTHERS OUT!

How?

The right to buy didn't reduce the number of houses that exist.

Bar Shaker

My memory of the Thatcher years is very different to many people's.

Thatcher repaid our national debt for a start. Before her and John Major (her chancellor and one of the best in post war times) Britain was controlled by the IMF. 3 day weeks, power cuts, the dead not being buried because grave diggers were on strike and inflation at 15%. Successive Labour governments had lost control and Britain was broken.

It was always going to be tough but Thatcher created an economy that gave us one of the best living standards and lowest national debts in the world. To get there, she had to break the unions, as the unions thought it was they, not the elected government, that ran the country. The government of Callaghan had been far too weak to take them on and inflation, national debt and unemployment spiralled as a result.

What really grieves me is that Gordon Brown has undone all that good economic work. From a country with no debt, low taxation and massive potential to be the manufacturing and technology leader of the future, Brown began the borrowing again to hire an enormous public sector. Thatcher was able to invest in the Nissan, Toyota and Intel factories, because the country had the money to do it.

We also started building a proper NHS, one whose purpose was to provide good health care, not just to employ millions of unionised workers.

With regards to selling council houses, the public housing stock had been underfunded in the 60s and 70s and was in a terrible state. The potential repair bill was massive. By selling off to those that wanted to buy, huge sums were raised and these were used to fund new housing associations. For years, the likes of Guinness Trust had made a far better job of running social housing than the likes of Manchester and Liverpool council ever could. This was the new model for social housing and it has worked.

Since Thatcher and Major, enormous damage has been done to the UK. Our credit cards aren't quite as bad as Greece or Portugal, but aren't far off. We have avoided the level of cuts that those countries have seen, because we have a government that is tackling the problem. Had labour stayed in power, they would be making the same cuts and incurring the same wrath of public sector workers. Gordon would still be saying that he had cured boom and bust and it was all the bankers fault. The country's shares in the banks - for which we will get the money back - account for less than 10% of the debt run up by Brown over his 13 years in office. Such was the amount of money that Brown pissed away on public sector wages. That's not all. Because he borrowed the money for every new school and hospital (did you think Labour had paid for them?) under the PFI scheme, our children will still be paying the mortgages for them in 25 years time. Not only did he tax us to death in his time, but he ensured we will pay high tax for at least 5 more parliaments because of the way he funded new infrastructure.

I would welcome Thatcher back today with open arms. Today, even more than in her time, we need a Thatcher to sort Labour's mess out again.

You needed to live through the pre Thatcher times to understand why she was so good for this country. When she eventually dies, she will have earned her state funeral.


Oh, and if France is so socially compassionate and so caring, why is Calais full of illegals trying to get from France to England? My parents live in France and it is not a place to live if you have no job.

One Man And His Bike

philthy3 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

I was soldier during the Thatcher years and have to say she was very good for me. .

In what way?

I thought sending soldiers into battle for what appear to be at best marginal and party gains was not a good way to treat soldiers?

Rick, at the time there was very little in the way of genuine operational deployment besides NI, the majority of soldiers were glad of an opportunity to use their prowess for real rather than in some exercise or by stagging on and cleaning kit for the umpteenth time. She gave the military a huge pay increase that saw private soldiers rates of pay with the local overseas allowance rocket enough for them to be buying Porches in Germany. It was widely known that the best rank was as a married Corporal with two kids in substandard married quarters. You paid very little rent and if on operations or exercise, you got free rations and a temporary reduction in your family accomodation costs back home.

Adding to this...

She actually VALUED her armed forces, the job they did and the risks they took.

They were "Her boys"(not politically correct then but it didn't matter as any women involved were proud to be wrapped up in that expression at the time anyway before the bra burning fluffy tree hugging fuckwits started getting a strop on instead of getting fucked with a strap on) and woe be tied anyone who fucked with them or the country they defended.

If the following headsheds took a quarter of Maggies stance with regards to our global stance and safety we wouldn't be in half the shit we are now and our armed forces wouldn't be falling apart. The concept we would be being featured on global news because we can't get planes in the air or get them overseas operationally wouldn't have been dreamed of back in her "reign". The fact the BBC and co keep banging on about how much trouble we are in with regards this situation is tantamount to hanging a "Ready to be raped and pillaged again Viking style" sign over the UK for any half arsed terrorist cell to come and take us on, let alone some country who feels they could get away with it because we have such a white noise position in the world of late because of leadership you'd struggle to pick out from a Police line up.

Oh, and yeah, let's not forget, a leader who knows what "Special Forces" are for AND is prepared to use them when it is felt it is required, you should thank and carry on voting for.

Not saying she was an angel, and yeah she dropped a few clangers, but you didn't fuck with her on certain matters and those that keep you safe at night and assure you're going to be able to call your own bed your own bed when their shift is over, you say thanks Ma'am, carry on.

Pross

The concept we would be being featured on global news because we can't get planes in the air or get them overseas operationally wouldn't have been dreamed of back in her "reign".

I seem to recall that was very nearly the situation that did occur with the Falklands? We were down to the bare bones on carriers (albeit due to previous Governments) and it was lucky that Hermes had just been re-fitted and was operational again (we were still far better off than we are now though of course). Personally I like the story Andy McNab (I think) tells of her reaction compared to an aide when they sat in the close quarters battle house with live ammo being shot around them.

She definately had her faults but I think far too many people have rose tinted glasses for the state of the country before she took power plus she won 3 elections, if she was as bad as some would have you believe surely she would have been voted out?

One Man And His Bike

We were still able to mobilize too the Falklands, kick arse, take names and claim what was ours back and scare the living shit out of any other nation because we did it on a shoestring budget.

The world learned once again we had an Army, Navy and Air force that wasn't to be under estimated or fracked with, because if you did you got dead, real fast.

World class training and abilities, we still train them and have them, shame they don't have the tools or toys they deserve let alone need but at least we are not Americans with all the gear and no idea. (& I can say that with actual hands on knowledge having worked with the US Army and their "Special needs Forces")

Drysuitdiver

One Man And His Bike wrote:

We were still able to mobilize too the Falklands, kick ars*, take names and claim what was ours back and scare the living shoot out of any other nation because we did it on a shoestring budget.

The world learned once again we had an Army, Navy and Air force that wasn't to be under estimated or fracked with, because if you did you got dead, real fast.

World class training and abilities, we still train them and have them, shame they don't have the tools or toys they deserve let alone need but at least we are not Americans with all the gear and no idea. (& I can say that with actual hands on knowledge having worked with the US Army and their "Special needs Forces")

we had to dust off the remnsants of a cold war armoury though . although the Blackbuck operations were more about dickswinging than actual operational targets.

nikle

Can't live off memories of the Falklands conflict for ever though, didn't england also win the world cup in 1966 as well.

Any future wars will have to be fought with foreign made swords or something cause you can't make a Tank in a call centre!

nikle

Can't live off memories of the Falklands conflict for ever though, didn't england also win the world cup in 1966 as well.

Any future wars will have to be fought with foreign made swords or something cause you can't make a Tank in a call centre!

Jez mon

nikle wrote:

Can't live off memories of the Falklands conflict for ever though, didn't england also win the world cup in 1966 as well.

Any future wars will have to be fought with foreign made swords or something cause you can't make a Tank in a call centre!

You are aware that the second biggest defence contractor is based in the UK right? :roll:

I'm fed up of people who do down our manufacturing industry. Sure it's not as big as it should be especially considering we were the first country to industrialise, and produce without doubt, some of the worlds best engineers. However, considering we are at the end of the day, a diddy little island, we punch above our weight in a lot of ways...

fast as fupp

i'm dismayed to hear she may be fading- i hope she suffers in agony for a long long time.

looking forward to dancing on her grave.