Who needs a skills course???

Jedi

i have been coaching for many years. when i began to do it as a job i had to get paper qualifications . i have smbla/ctc/mias.

Johnny Napalm

Speaking personally, I know that any help I could get would be of benefit to me because I am not that great, and still have loads to learn. I think it's true that you never stop learning, but there are probably quite a lot of guys on here who have forgotten more than most of us will know, so I can see why they might not be too enthralled with the idea of a course.

I suppose it's down to how the rider feels within him/herself regarding their skills and whether they feel thet would benefit. I've learnt a couple of things recently from people on here and from reading a few articles, which when put into practice have helped me already, so I could see how a course could help the likes of me. Some things are obvious once you know, but it's gaining that knowledge that's sometimes difficult.

J@mesC

paramart wrote:

james c you never said why you needed a skills course.

I was pretty happy with my riding, but I knew I could do better. Wasn't quite sure how to go about it though. Done all the riding with mates and sessioning the same trail stuff...

Every day's a school day

mac_man

Speaking as another person who has done a skills day. Not with our Jedi friend, I hasten to add, but another great guy up in the North.

I only got back in to biking 2 years ago and, to put it bluntly, I can't afford to take time off work through injury. I figured it was worth a few quid to dial in some of the basics from somebody who knew what they were talking about. Plus, at my age, I don't HAVE 20+ years to get anywhere near half decent. Life's too short to spend months off riding through injury.

And the training worked.

Just as a small example.... my riding group was presented with (to my mind) a fairly substantial 4' high double stepdown. No way would I have attepted anything like that the previous day. But a bit of direction and motivation and i was down this thing no problem.

So for me I just don't understand the antagonism towards structured learning. I wouldn't expect a heart surgeon to have learnt 'on the job' without proper supervision and coaching. Ditto any skilled profession.

Sure there are some 'gifted amateurs' who make a pretty good fist of things, but the thing that separates the elite in any sport or profession is their innate natural ability coupled with a damn good coach/trainer.

TBH.... and it's just my opinion, but anybody who thinks they're too good to learn anything from a 'coach' is nuts.

Northwind

NatoED wrote:

What i can't understand is why pay for it . Surly ridding with a mixed group of riders with a range of skills is going to be as effective and better for your wallet ? Why not ask to join a group of experienced riders who can help you out , plus you get to make more friends out on the trails .

It's a great thing to do and it's how I learned most of what I know, like most folks. But it's not the same thing. And again, not mutually exclusive.

Here's a nice quote I just read in Dirt, from Andy Barlow of Dirt School (who coincidentally was the last person to have a crack at teaching me how to ride one of them bicycle things). This is specifically about the BASE downhill course he coaches for:

"Most of them are a lot faster than me, but they don't neccesarily know why they're going fast. It's our job to make them conscious of the things that will allow them to reach levels they could never achieve in the same time on their own".

Now I'll admit I got more from my shorter (and free) coaching session with Ian Potter from A Quick Release than I did from a full day at Dirtschool, though I'm still putting some of the DS stuff into practice, it's taking a bit of work. But that sums it up really well I think. Except that obviously I'm not faster than him

NatoED

I think your right northwind it's about striking a balance . I don't think I'm too good for coaching I'm just happy where I am . I may try a coaching lesson next year as I'm hoping to start an XC team with a few mates.

cloudynights

these skill centres know how to charge, there on plumbers and joiners rates for very little overheads

weeksy59

i very much need a skills course... very very much so.

cloudynights

just got one final thought, having just re-read all these posts i get the impression that people go on courses so they can tackle downhills, jumps beams rockgardens etc with more speed and more confidence i know maybe not for every one but im speaking generally, having watched videos either on you tube or from the skill courses themselves, and i guess with bikes today having better forks, brakes and stuff going downhill allows this, so yeah flying down some rockgarden at break neck speeds you need to know how and what your doing, but no one seems to ever mention either on this post or skill centres websites the skill and practice needed to go up steep rockgardens which take a long time to get up and without putting a foot down, this to a oldtime cross country mountain biker is such a good feeling, and im sorry cannot be taught just takes years of practice even then sometimes you put a foot down, just a thought!!

shx8000

I'm looking at a skills course in the future.
The lads I used to ride with, are now much better than me. Reason being I took almost 5 years out. I'm back in the saddle now and pedalling hard. My mindset is now that, if my mates can do these massive drop offs and table tops, then so can I. It's sort of working, and all the jumps and stuff are coming on pretty well.
However, this is probably because I'm riding a £3k bike with 6 inches of travel. So 2-3foot drop offs aren't an issue. It's now the bigger stuff and jumps which causes me grief.
So, a day spent with someone that can constructively point out weaknesses on what appears to be purpose built jumps, can only be money well spent.

I've been riding for years, but when I quit in 2005, was mostly doing xc and fire road type rides. Now I ride red and black trails at trail centres, appreciate how much fun the fast downhill trails are with jumps, berms, drop offs and fancy a bit of full on DH action before I get too old and take too long to mend.

popstar

Anyway just to round off discussion here are following videos:

Be a better rider 1 with Ed Oxley (Great Rock)

Be a better rider 2 with Dales Mountain Biking

Be a better rider 3 with Jedi (Ukbikeskillz)

Be a better rider 4 with Campbell coaching.

Hope this will help to form your own opinion.

NatoED

that second guy made my chuckle at the end .

I think the second problem pointed out is caused by modern bikes removing the need to learn a skill . Would supplying not as high spec bikes at these courses help build skills better?

forgotrafe

Our club is doing some training courses at much cheapness:

http://www.mbswindon.co.uk/training/

Funny how we get some regular riders coming on the beginners course (and the intermediate) saying that they want to be sure they've got the basics right. Yet other riders poo-poo all courses. I might be bias but I know which are the better riders

NatoED

forgotrafe wrote:

Our club is doing some training courses at much cheapness:

http://www.mbswindon.co.uk/training/

Funny how we get some regular riders coming on the beginners course (and the intermediate) saying that they want to be sure they've got the basics right. Yet other riders poo-poo all courses. I might be bias but I know which are the better riders

well I can't argue with that. I can see the sense at that price AND it includes mechanical knowledge building.

NormalD

Rule 1.

J@mesC wrote:

Every day's a school day

Rule 2.

See Rule 1.

paul.skibum

I havent read every post on here but I can honestly say the idea of getting some high quality coaching to improve your riding is a great one.

I am a ski instructor by trade (well in the winter) and I repeatedly see people with common problems in their skiing - relating primarily to stance and balance over their skis. The same is true of bikes. If you watch the four singletrack videos - three of them relate to position on the bike effectively - ed oxley is effectively getting you to alter your body position by looking where you are going, the shift gets weight focussed in the right place int he turn and drives the bike into the corner and back out, the bendy legs and arms of the second film is the same principle - let your body provide suspension but by doing so you are also able to be in the right place on the bike - the stiff rider is unable to maintain good balance over the bike. Same kind of thing with dropping heals or toes - its fore aft weight transfers to get the body in the right place.

A few simple drills can transform someones skiing - it can certainly do the same thing for a bike rider.

pilsburypie

If I take just one thing from those videos........ I want a beard like Ed Oxley :shock:

fielonator

Does anyone know of good and cheap coaching in Kent? You can only go so far on your own luck and bravery.

tubaonwheels

I've heard nothing but great reports on Jedi (and Ed Oxley come to that), thing is mountain biking is a 'technical' sport, so of course you will benefit from good coaching.
I've not tried it yet but I know I would certainly benefit from it :oops:
Does'nt stop us enjoying our riding though

Anonymous

Not that I'm saying you should learn skills just from reading books, but bought a couple of skills manual books today out of interest and reading through there's just masses of stuff I really don't know.

My options are to spend the next 10 to 20 years trying to develop these skills, continue riding what I'm able to and not advance at all, or get a boost from a qualified professional who can spot what I need work on and advise accordingly.

Getting tips off friends is something extra to aid the long term skill development, but it could also be a hindrance.

Mental Mickey

supersonic wrote:

cloudynights wrote:

skills course lol never needed them 30 years ago, ride by feel thats best way to learn

There is a lot of truth in this - there is a lot you can do off your own bat before you splash out on a course.

You know, I said something similar to this long ago, pointing out that you can learn a lot nowadays online from videos and practice yourself, even trail centres mostly have easy enough (Red Grade) stuff to ride and you don't necessarily need to book a course when you learn to tackle obstacle while standing up, that's almost half the battle won.

I then said that these courses ARE useful for anyone wanting to take it to another level, hitting high air and so on, and of course, they may point out your bad habits which is fine. A guy like Jedi would be the man to see for anyone wanting confidence on big jumps and so on.

You say it and nobody flinches, I say it and I'm a troll, yeah I must be a troll, get back under your bridge you nasty troll. :roll: