Volta a Catalunya *SPOILER*

andyp

P_Tucker wrote:

It really is time people grew up. If taking drugs was the difference between eeking out a living as a 2nd tier professional struggling to find a contract every year and winning the TdF and having bucketloads of cash and untold glory, you'd dope too. Christ, the only reason I don't is because I'm too sh!t and the risks outweigh the rewards.

So what you're basically saying is that being opposed to doping is a childish view point?

How mature.

blazing_saddles

afx237vi wrote:

Apparently there's still a race going on somewhere in Spain. Dumoulin won today's stage.

Apart from Contador's sprint on stage 3, this race is turning out to be a bit of a sprinter/puncheur race.
All the more mystifying that virtually no one bothered to send a sprinter in their squad.
Maybe, like me, they paid too much attention to the profiles on the race website. :oops:

afx237vi

Blazing Saddles wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Apparently there's still a race going on somewhere in Spain. Dumoulin won today's stage.

Apart from Contador's sprint on stage 3, this race is turning out to be a bit of a sprinter/puncheur race.
All the more mystifying that virtually no one bothered to send a sprinter in their squad.
Maybe, like me, they paid too much attention to the profiles on the race website. :oops:

Evans agrees: "Volta Catalunya st #6 done; no resemblance of stage to the race profile. "

jerry3571

I think you can have the realisation that the sport is riddled with drugs (to which I think is hugely likely) and to also be anti doping. You can wear both hats.
I liked the exclusion of amateur cycling for being drug free; to be honest i wouldn't put it past an amateur cyclist to have a go on drugs as some juniors have been previously caught for doping. I did know an amateur cyclist who had an Oxygen Tent and it does work in case anyone wants to buy one.
-Jerry

-AC form is awful; he only kicked everyone's butts again; nice scenery though

P_Tucker

andyp wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

It really is time people grew up. If taking drugs was the difference between eeking out a living as a 2nd tier professional struggling to find a contract every year and winning the TdF and having bucketloads of cash and untold glory, you'd dope too. Christ, the only reason I don't is because I'm too sh!t and the risks outweigh the rewards.

So what you're basically saying is that being opposed to doping is a childish view point?

How mature.

Pretty childish, yes. The world simply doesn't work that way.

calvjones

P_Tucker wrote:

andyp wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

It really is time people grew up. If taking drugs was the difference between eeking out a living as a 2nd tier professional struggling to find a contract every year and winning the TdF and having bucketloads of cash and untold glory, you'd dope too. Christ, the only reason I don't is because I'm too sh!t and the risks outweigh the rewards.

So what you're basically saying is that being opposed to doping is a childish view point?

How mature.

Pretty childish, yes. The world simply doesn't work that way.

Because torture is endemic across many parts of the globe, and probably always will be, does that mean we can't be opposed to that too?

Shame, but at least it makes my next holiday destination choice less ethically fraught.

jerry3571

I think it is fascinating that a lot of people here criticize riders who dope and in their own lives then do wrongs whether it is speeding, having affairs, taking a puff on some Hash, avoid Tax, drop someone in the do at work to cover thier own mistakes and a thousand other situations.
Riders are from our own societies and are not from some holy sanctuary where they are void of any temptataion.
Pro cyclists are paid to risk thier lives to get across the line first or do their job as best they can and avoid getting caught. A lot of us at work break regulations such a tax or Health and safety etc all of which are wrong but we do. So lets not get too ahead of ourselves.
Before pointing the finger of judgement just remember all the wrongs in our own lives.
The British are amazing at pointing the finger and then looking the other way at our own bad decisions. So unless we've all had a life without any faults and wrong doings then a little bit of humility is called for.
This of course doesn't stop us from wishing that doping isn't consigned to History but as cheating has exsisted since we were cavemen, it's not a problem with Cycling, it is a problem with being human. The Greeks were known to cheat in the first Olympics-
a quote from a webpage about the Greek Olympics -
Classics Professor Matthew Wiencke, when a cheating competitor was caught, he was disqualified. In addition, the cheating athlete, his trainer, and possibly his city-state were fined -- heavily.

The reason for most of the increase in Doping Investigations is for the reductions in the occurance of deaths to sportmen/women rather than the mere matter of cheating at sport. The doping regs have largely came about after the EPO deaths in the 1990s and after the events of Tommy Simpson. Cyclists would risk it all for winning in this sport and it is only the anti doping Organistaions which prevent riders from dying in greater numbers. I think Tyler Hamilton roughly said that when you are hammering down a mountain at 70mph with a cliff face on one side and a verticle drop the other side that the dangers of doping seem to be very small. You can see how he thinks and it is understandable.

I hope that I may have picked up on some points which haven't yet been said. It is a tricky complicated subject which should be viewed from all sides.

-Jerry

thegibdog

People can do wrong themselves and still recognize the wrongs of others. If we waited for "he without sin" we'd be waiting a long time.

Whilst nothing is ever black and white most people live to their own morality. I'm sure it's pretty easy for a doper to justify his actions when doping is so widespread, it doesn't stop it being wrong in my eyes and I'm sure the majority of cycling fans see it the same way.

frenchfighter

The trophy is nearly as big!