Tuna, why so expensive?
Comments
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No for one. £200 for two would be achievable.
The Mrs's works different times to me.
Look at your usual supermarket bill and the expense comes from the convenience food (pop, crisps, frozen food etc.)
If you look at the food you would buy from a good butcher/baker/greengrocer it is cheap(ish). This is my point about priorities though. People don't want to give up the crap when they can just pay less for a badly treated animal (that will incidentally taste of nothing).0 -
Rick - Ha ha ha!
I did re read what I had put to as I was a little confused by your reaction!0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:No for one. £200 for two would be achievable.
The Mrs's works different times to me.
Look at your usual supermarket bill and the expense comes from the convenience food (pop, crisps, frozen food etc.)
If you look at the food you would buy from a good butcher/baker/greengrocer it is cheap(ish). This is my point about priorities though. People don't want to give up the crap when they can just pay less for a badly treated animal (that will incidentally taste of nothing).
Where I live, you go to a butcher, expect to pay for it.
I don't by convienence food.
Frozen food is cheaper than fresh food though.0 -
Did anyone see that doc about The People's Supermarket in London? The owner is trying to set up a co operative style supermarket which supplies decent, locally produced meat and groceries and is staffed by its members who receive a discount on food.
Anyway, one of the complaints of customers at The People's Supemarket was that the shelves were not groaning under the weight of produce and that supplies were limited. The owner took a trip to a food disposal plant and showed how much waste there is from the major supermarkets. Asda, Sainsbury's, Tesco and the like literally chuck out millions of quids worth of food weekly. Customers expect to see a shelf laden to the gills with meat and veg but don't realise that a lot of it gets literally thrown out. This is on top of the food that is thrown out by households up and down the country. The waste is absolutely staggering....
This is part of the reason we have industrially farmed meat - people expect to see shelves laden with meat in the supermarket and expect to be able to buy, pork, chicken, beef or lamb in various cuts at low price and as far as they're concerned it is disposable when in fact not only the the creatures themselves suffer in meat production but the amount of energy (fuel, feed etc) to produce beef is enormous. I read somewhere that the fish meal for example that is used to produce farmed salmon is mostly made up of anchovies. The anchovies are fished out of the wild, packed processed, transported and fed to the farmed salmon. It takes about 1.5kg of anchovy to produce 1kg of salmon (already a waste) and then the salmon has to be packed, shipped and sits in a supermarket and may ultimately end up in the bin. There are enornmous inefficiencies and waste in the food production field.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:It is a fair point Monkey but with a little change to our cooking habits (being a little more thrifty) you can eat very good meat, very cheaply. As I have said above, it is a tiny percentage that really can't affford it in the UK. The majority choose not to (food morality comes behind fags, booze, sky tv, computers, bike stuff etc.). Where the choice is made, fine but at least people should be honest and not just say it is too expensive so they have to eat intensively reared meat.
My quote that I pay a lot is because of the cuts of meat I buy. I buy my food as my treat so will pay more for a steak etc. When I had a lot less cash I didn't buy the same cuts but still ate lovely meat.
The reasons for the cheap meat being there are exactly as you have listed. That doesn't mean it is right though. I would love to have even more expensive meat that currently I wouldn't buy. I don't think animals being cruely treated should happen so I can have it though.
Rick - Re. the argument that you could stop buying anything because of the consequences, you are absolutely right. However, it isn't realistic to do that, nor does it mean you should give up on any morals because you can't get everything right.
The way I look at it is, if I don't buy that chicken/meat in a supermarket, along with 10 other people, less of it will be ordered in future etc.
With my phone battery, you would need a far greater number of people to make a difference. I am by no means moral and clean living in every way but I try as hard as I can where I can. I think meat is a very easy way to change/be informed about.
Just quoted you as an illustration of differing attitudes about how much people are prepared to pay.
Agree with you 100%.
My rambling, put in simple terms: Food (esp. meat) shouldn't be taken for granted - it's a shame we've created a society that does exactly that.0 -
Speaking of food waste: anyone listen to the freakanomics podcast? They had one on that very issue.0
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Edit - Sorry, was answering Rick's earlier post but one.
So buy from the farmer direct, cuts out the middle man.
Yes Frozen food is cheaper than fresh. So is sawdust.
Frozen meat in particular will be full of water, not taste of anything and have been inhumainly reared. This is where, instead of buying that frozen steak, buy a fresh pork belly or rack of ribs (I can buy ribs for £1 from pigs that roam around a field) and cook slightly differently and you will have a much nicer meal for as much or less.
I'm not going to argue that like for like good meat is cheaper, it clearly isn't. My point is though, you can eat very, very well for what you (Will as I know what he spends), spend on food currently.0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:So buy from the farmer direct, cuts out the middle man.
Yes Frozen food is cheaper than fresh. So is sawdust.
Frozen meat in particular will be full of water, not taste of anything and have been inhumainly reared. This is where, instead of buying that frozen steak, buy a fresh pork belly or rack of ribs (I can buy ribs for £1 from pigs that roam around a field) and cook slightly differently and you will have a much nicer meal for as much or less.
I'm not going to argue that like for like good meat is cheaper, it clearly isn't. My point is though, you can eat very, very well for what you (Will as I know what he spends), spend on food currently.
I meant more of the peas and fish (when, for example, you can't go to the shops every day)
Order straight from the farmer? I don't think we're on the same wavelength if you think that's a legimate option.
You say getting a mobile which doesn't have stuff mined in the Congo is difficult, yet you're happy to make the effort to find a farmer and buy it from them?
I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
I tend to eat meals where the meat is a vehicle rather than the focus anyway, so, conveniently, I'm not buying the premium meat.
In light of current commodity prices, efforts to further increase food prices will not be welcome anyway.0 -
Buying straight from the farmer means going to a Farmers Market or to a Farm shop Rick. Just the same as going to the supermarket (normally a damn sight easier). I don't mean you have to rock up at a field with your tweed bag at the ready for a dead sheep.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
What would everything be like if everybody had this attitude?
Remove the word food/meat.0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
What would everything be like if everybody had this attitude?
Remove the word food/meat.
Look, as you said yourself - it's impossible to consider the whole food chain and it's implications on the wider world. Given the nature of the freemarket and consumption - it's not a realistic option to assume, given the knowledge, people will change their ways.
People snort tonnes of cocain without a care in the world how it got there or whatever.
The solution needs to come from the supply side with regulation, since the freemarket, by its very nature, lets demand run free.0 -
CyclingBantam wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
What would everything be like if everybody had this attitude?
Remove the word food/meat.
I am astounded at this attitude.... You seriously have no concern where the food on your plate comes from? Even if not for animal welfare for your own health in terms of chemicals etc used in production which could harm you?Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:CyclingBantam wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
What would everything be like if everybody had this attitude?
Remove the word food/meat.
I am astounded at this attitude.... You seriously have no concern where the food on your plate comes from? Even if not for animal welfare for your own health in terms of chemicals etc used in production which could harm you?
I'd imagine by now, anything that gets sold won't harm my health.
If it does, it should be regulated and not sold - it's not up to me to work that out!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:CyclingBantam wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I'm as much of a food snob as the next man, but where my meat comes from is not my concern - if there is a problem, it should be properly regulated.
What would everything be like if everybody had this attitude?
Remove the word food/meat.
I am astounded at this attitude.... You seriously have no concern where the food on your plate comes from? Even if not for animal welfare for your own health in terms of chemicals etc used in production which could harm you?
I'd imagine by now, anything that gets sold won't harm my health.
If it does, it should be regulated and not sold - it's not up to me to work that out!
You would IMAGINE? It SHOULD not be sold? I wish I had your faith in the government/food authorities!Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:]
You would IMAGINE? It SHOULD not be sold? I wish I had your faith in the government/food authorities!
Fair enough.
Don't quite see why you wouldn't.
How do you decide? Where is your information from?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:]
You would IMAGINE? It SHOULD not be sold? I wish I had your faith in the government/food authorities!
Fair enough.
Don't quite see why you wouldn't.
How do you decide? Where is your information from?
I can't say I'm an expert but I read around the subject, papers, watch docs on TV etc. There are a lot of vested business interests in the food world, it's a multi billion quid industry. These businessmen are constantly putting pressure on the govt to be allowed to increase productivity through the use of this or that pesticide, or the other antibiotic. Take trans fats for example. Now banned in some countries as extremely bad for our health yet widely used in mass produced ready meals, pies and cakes in the UK. Only M&S has started to stop using them in a big way.
If consumers like you just sit back and watch it all happen then the authorities may end up going along with big business and profit...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:]
You would IMAGINE? It SHOULD not be sold? I wish I had your faith in the government/food authorities!
Fair enough.
Don't quite see why you wouldn't.
How do you decide? Where is your information from?
I can't say I'm an expert but I read around the subject, papers, watch docs on TV etc. There are a lot of vested business interests in the food world, it's a multi billion quid industry. These businessmen are constantly putting pressure on the govt to be allowed to increase productivity through the use of this or that pesticide, or the other antibiotic. Take trans fats for example. Now banned in some countries as extremely bad for our health yet widely used in mass produced ready meals, pies and cakes in the UK. Only M&S has started to stop using them in a big way.
If consumers like you just sit back and watch it all happen then the authorities may end up going along with big business and profit...
A family member spends a lot of time in the quality and risk management business for consumables and, from what I've heard, it's all taken very seriously.
Where I work sure, you get many unscrupulous bastards who do pretty much anything for a buck, but you don't go into the food safety game if you're that way inclined.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:]
You would IMAGINE? It SHOULD not be sold? I wish I had your faith in the government/food authorities!
Fair enough.
Don't quite see why you wouldn't.
How do you decide? Where is your information from?
I can't say I'm an expert but I read around the subject, papers, watch docs on TV etc. There are a lot of vested business interests in the food world, it's a multi billion quid industry. These businessmen are constantly putting pressure on the govt to be allowed to increase productivity through the use of this or that pesticide, or the other antibiotic. Take trans fats for example. Now banned in some countries as extremely bad for our health yet widely used in mass produced ready meals, pies and cakes in the UK. Only M&S has started to stop using them in a big way.
If consumers like you just sit back and watch it all happen then the authorities may end up going along with big business and profit...
A family member spends a lot of time in the quality and risk management business for consumables and, from what I've heard, it's all taken very seriously.
Where I work sure, you get many unscrupulous bastards who do pretty much anything for a buck, but you don't go into the food safety game if you're that way inclined.
It's all taken seriously but the problem is that "safe levels" are very much up for grabs. It's not as if you can say that x grammes of this chemical in food is safe but x+1 grammes is immediately bad... It takes science and much discussion to decide what is and isn't a safe level and a lot of the science is funded by big (food) business which has a vested interest. They then pressure govts by saying "our thorough research proves x is safe" and keep pushing til they are alllowed to use a product....
Many modern food allergies and things like increasing asthma levels are sometimes attributed to chemicals used in modern foods, it can't be proved without doubt of course but it pays to know about what is used in foodstuffs and stuff that you may want to avoid but which is perfectly legal....Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:It's all taken seriously but the problem is that "safe levels" are very much up for grabs. It's not as if you can say that x grammes of this chemical in food is safe but x+1 grammes is immediately bad... It takes science and much discussion to decide what is and isn't a safe level and a lot of the science is funded by big (food) business which has a vested interest. They then pressure govts by saying "our thorough research proves x is safe" and keep pushing til they are alllowed to use a product....
Many modern food allergies and things like increasing asthma levels are sometimes attributed to chemicals used in modern foods, it can't be proved without doubt of course but it pays to know about what is used in foodstuffs and stuff that you may want to avoid but which is perfectly legal....
But look, people in the food world aren't stupid. If you or I can understand this, I'm sure they can. From what I've seen, safety always errs on the side of caution. Even the European comission, so hated, puts out legislation and research on this stuff. I haven't heard of mass problems caused by meat you buy in the supermarket.
For all I know, said farmer in organic playpen is feeding his chickens stuff that is just as bad as the battery lot.
It's all pretty tightly regulated.
Since there is a lack of visibility from the consumer end, it is up to the regulator, who does have visibility, to do the job. I think, right now, they do a good job, so I have no complaints.
If anything, the supermarket food is more tightly regulated that some sh!t some farmer dumbs on a plastic table next to his field.
Can you tell the markets are tanking? Not much for me to do here....0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:It's all taken seriously but the problem is that "safe levels" are very much up for grabs. It's not as if you can say that x grammes of this chemical in food is safe but x+1 grammes is immediately bad... It takes science and much discussion to decide what is and isn't a safe level and a lot of the science is funded by big (food) business which has a vested interest. They then pressure govts by saying "our thorough research proves x is safe" and keep pushing til they are alllowed to use a product....
Many modern food allergies and things like increasing asthma levels are sometimes attributed to chemicals used in modern foods, it can't be proved without doubt of course but it pays to know about what is used in foodstuffs and stuff that you may want to avoid but which is perfectly legal....
But look, people in the food world aren't stupid. If you or I can understand this, I'm sure they can. From what I've seen, safety always errs on the side of caution. Even the European comission, so hated, puts out legislation and research on this stuff. I haven't heard of mass problems caused by meat you buy in the supermarket.
For all I know, said farmer in organic playpen is feeding his chickens stuff that is just as bad as the battery lot.
It's all pretty tightly regulated.
Since there is a lack of visibility from the consumer end, it is up to the regulator, who does have visibility, to do the job. I think, right now, they do a good job, so I have no complaints.
If anything, the supermarket food is more tightly regulated that some sh!t some farmer dumbs on a plastic table next to his field.
Can you tell the markets are tanking? Not much for me to do here....
I'm just not entirely convinced. The food/agriculture business in Europe has a very strong political lobby in the EU, it is very powerful. The supermarkets are enormously powerful businesses in the UK. I think it pays to know a bit about what goes into your food, if only for your own health...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Yeah possibly.
Trust two head-hunters to have enough time to chat sh!t about food regulation in the middle of the day!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Yeah possibly.
Trust two head-hunters to have enough time to chat sh!t about food regulation in the middle of the day!
Eh? Are you a headhunter too?Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
It's the first one and most important one when I go shopping...CyclingBantam wrote:Money shouldn't be the only consideration. Buying meat from animals that have been cruely treated is actively supporting and encouraging animal cruelty.
"Can I afford it, no...
/move on down the aisle
Aside from that, raising animals to kill them to eat is inherently cruel no matter what angle you spin on it. Though I do agree that the old ways of farming that were less intensive will produce better quality and superior tasting meats.
Free range and tree hugging fuzzy goodness friendly products are great, if the cost for them comes inline with what people can pay, and by tthat I mean EVERYONE.
Given the choice of eating or going hungry just so some chicken can live in a better home than I do is a no brainer. I get to eat and the chicken gets to fend for it's own life, survival of the fittest and all that food chain malarky.
Humans are meant to eat meat, your teeth prove that.
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Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Yeah possibly.
Trust two head-hunters to have enough time to chat sh!t about food regulation in the middle of the day!
Eh? Are you a headhunter too?
'Fraid so.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Yeah possibly.
Trust two head-hunters to have enough time to chat sh!t about food regulation in the middle of the day!
Eh? Are you a headhunter too?
'Fraid so.
Really? What sector? Investment banking I'd guess by the "long only" motif...Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:Really? What sector? Investment banking I'd guess by the "long only" motif...
Indeed. Though not actually long only (put that in a while back), since that's more buy-side stuff. I should probably change that.
Sell side, front office, senior in IBs.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Really? What sector? Investment banking I'd guess by the "long only" motif...
Indeed. Though not actually long only (put that in a while back), since that's more buy-side stuff. I should probably change that.
Sell side, front office, senior in IBs.
God we must actually cross paths sometimes.... I wonder if I know of you in the real world. I mainly focus on FICC front office but occasionally stray into equities, particularly on the prime brokerage front....Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Really? What sector? Investment banking I'd guess by the "long only" motif...
Indeed. Though not actually long only (put that in a while back), since that's more buy-side stuff. I should probably change that.
Sell side, front office, senior in IBs.
God we must actually cross paths sometimes.... I wonder if I know of you in the real world. I mainly focus on FICC front office but occasionally stray into equities, particularly on the prime brokerage front....
Might do. I'm pretty junior- research monkey. The firm's small enough that I get a fair bit of exposure - approaching/meeting candidates etc.0 -
One Man And His Bike wrote:
It's the first one and most important one when I go shopping...CyclingBantam wrote:Money shouldn't be the only consideration. Buying meat from animals that have been cruely treated is actively supporting and encouraging animal cruelty.
"Can I afford it, no...
/move on down the aisle
Aside from that, raising animals to kill them to eat is inherently cruel no matter what angle you spin on it. Though I do agree that the old ways of farming that were less intensive will produce better quality and superior tasting meats.
Free range and tree hugging fuzzy goodness friendly products are great, if the cost for them comes inline with what people can pay, and by tthat I mean EVERYONE.
Given the choice of eating or going hungry just so some chicken can live in a better home than I do is a no brainer. I get to eat and the chicken gets to fend for it's own life, survival of the fittest and all that food chain malarky.
Humans are meant to eat meat, your teeth prove that.
Presume the slave trade is fine by you then is it. I mean, it's survival of the fittest.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Headhuunter wrote:Really? What sector? Investment banking I'd guess by the "long only" motif...
Indeed. Though not actually long only (put that in a while back), since that's more buy-side stuff. I should probably change that.
Sell side, front office, senior in IBs.
God we must actually cross paths sometimes.... I wonder if I know of you in the real world. I mainly focus on FICC front office but occasionally stray into equities, particularly on the prime brokerage front....
Might do. I'm pretty junior- research monkey. The firm's small enough that I get a fair bit of exposure - approaching/meeting candidates etc.
Oh I'm in research too, I get out there to meet people too but I prefer research to being pushed to originate. I used to originate business but it's tough to get decent mandated, retained searches unless you have the connections through working at a bank or something. I ended up "originating" contingent stuff and chasing around throwing CVs about to make placements and that sort of quick buck, scatter gun approach doesn't appeal to me. As you may be able to tell (from the earlier convo) I like to do full research, really learn about something and then try to really be informative before actually punting people to clients....Do not write below this line. Office use only.0
