Tuna, why so expensive?

CyclingBantam

Freehub - did you get your Uni place in a cereal packet?

Genuine question, do you ever think of the consequences of your actions (mainly relating to the things you buy/eat) on the world/society/future generations? That isn't a dig, I am just interested if you ever even think about stuff like that or do and just don't care.

I'm sure you were involved in an identical thread about chickens where the theme seemed to be, why pay £9 when you could pay £2.

Stewie Griffin

freehub wrote:

DIESELDOG wrote:

freehub wrote:

I've spent 13 quid on 8 cans, I was however supposed to pay £5.38 until I found I got the wrong brand. No sign of gold plating on the tins too.

Why so expensive?

Because it's nice, everything nice is expensive

You only have to look at the price of fags and vodka to work that one out.

Love n hugs

DD

vodka is the most disgusting thing I've tasted, and most people don't like the taste of it, that's why they mix it with stuff.

It's just like tuna Will, sh1t cheap nasty stuff or lovely more expensive stuff. Straight from the freezer, yum yum.

One Man And His Bike

Stewie Griffin wrote:

It's just like tuna Will, sh1t cheap nasty stuff or lovely more expensive stuff. Straight from the freezer, yum yum.

Surely you would break your teeth trying to eat Tuna straight from the freezer?

pastey_boy

no one has alluded to the fact that the big 4 super markets are taking us all for a ride. i can buy 8 tins of john west tuna for a fiver from costco, supermarkets charge nearly triple. price fixing is alive and well and we all put up with it. be it food ,petrol, or utilities its one big con, we are being fleeced systematically on every front. this so called recession seems to only affect the working man as the big companies are all raking in stupendous profits year in year out. its our own fault as we do what we are told, pay what is requested and never really question or defy it. lets see what happens when petrol is over £2 a litre and its a decision between heating and eating .........................

Stewie Griffin

One Man And His Bike wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

It's just like tuna Will, sh1t cheap nasty stuff or lovely more expensive stuff. Straight from the freezer, yum yum.

Surely you would break your teeth trying to eat Tuna straight from the freezer?

No, Russians put their tuna on the window sill next to the vodka as its the best way to serve them both. :oops:

One Man And His Bike

Stewie Griffin wrote:

No, Russians put their tuna on the window sill next to the vodka as its the best way to serve them both. :oops:

I'll take your word for it, not something I'd try myself, I lieks mah toona from a can.

freehub

CyclingBantam wrote:

Freehub - did you get your Uni place in a cereal packet?

Genuine question, do you ever think of the consequences of your actions (mainly relating to the things you buy/eat) on the world/society/future generations? That isn't a dig, I am just interested if you ever even think about stuff like that or do and just don't care.

I'm sure you were involved in an identical thread about chickens where the theme seemed to be, why pay £9 when you could pay £2.

When I go to the supermarket, if I like something, I buy it, well actually, if I like something, I'd like to buy it, I don't buy much, stay to lower priced stuff, I buy 15 eggs for 1 pound 29 I think, if I can get eggs that cheap and they're no different to more expensive eggs then I'm not going to throw money away.

I don't think of my actions when buying Tuna no...

I like to recycle though, my flat mates moan about the stuff to recycle is accumulating in the corner of the kitchen until my parents next come to take it home, as we've stopped recycling here, admittedly I don't recycle all.

stigofthedump

So you are happy to rape the seas for your tuna and have chickens live in tiny cages and never see the light of day for your eggs. Just as long as you can afford the latest piece of carbon/ titanium bike bling.

You might be a student, but your list of interests, computers and bikes would indicate that you are not in the sort of poverty that even gives you the excuse to disregard animal maltreatment so easily. Why dont you get off your computer games and this website and get yourself informed about the issues. I believe you can get a student discount on a decent newspaper. This might be a good place for you to start.

stigofthedump

PS
You can get The Guardian as an app for your Iphone/ ipad/ ipod touch for just £3.99 for a whole years worth of why you should pay a good price for your food.

stigofthedump

pps
Check here for why you should spend more on line caught tuna
http://www.fishfight.net/

Sign up, and start eating different and cheaper fish (like mackerel for instance)

Headhuunter

stigofthedump wrote:

So you are happy to rape the seas for your tuna and have chickens live in tiny cages and never see the light of day for your eggs. Just as long as you can afford the latest piece of carbon/ titanium bike bling.

You might be a student, but your list of interests, computers and bikes would indicate that you are not in the sort of poverty that even gives you the excuse to disregard animal maltreatment so easily. Why dont you get off your computer games and this website and get yourself informed about the issues. I believe you can get a student discount on a decent newspaper. This might be a good place for you to start.

This is exactly it. Eggs may be eggs to you, Will, but to the chicken they may not be, same goes for cheap meat. Also cheaply raised, factory farmed meat and dairy is often loaded with chemicals and antibiotics whilst its raised to fend of disease and injury that is the natural result of cramming lots of animals into a tight space...

neilo23

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eating-Animals- ... 724&sr=1-3

I've just read this book and am seriously considering becoming a vegetarian because of what's explained in it. I've only eaten meet once in the last week. I'd think about gluing up the locks of the KFC type restaurant across the street if I wasn't friends with the owner :-)

Headhuunter

neilo23 wrote:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eating-Animals-Jonathan-Safran-Foer/dp/014103193X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300181724&sr=1-3

I've just read this book and am seriously considering becoming a vegetarian because of what's explained in it. I've only eaten meet once in the last week. I'd think about gluing up the locks of the KFC type restaurant across the street if I wasn't friends with the owner :-)

Personally I believe that we are designed to eat meat and wouldn't go veggie, I just think that access to cheap, low quality meat a la KFC, Macdonald's burger etc is bad . Animals should be raised in optimum conditions for their (and our) health reducing the need for heavy medication and chemical use. This will of course raise the price of meat but so be it, we're not meant to eat pounds and pounds of meat per day, it's perfectly acceptable to eat meat 2-3 times per week only and remain healthy. In fact access to cheap, fried, low quality meat is probably one of the cornerstones of obesity....

neilo23

I don't think I will ever become a proper vegetarian, but I certainly don't see any harm in reducing my meat intake. I'm 2 years shy of 40, so I'm not talking about the times of rationing, but when I was a kid we had our Sunday roast and ate the left over meat for the next couple of days because meat was expensive.
My dad worked on a farm and our milk came practically fresh from the cow, the animals grazed out in the fields, eggs came from the chickens which "hung out" in the barns. The farm closed when it ceased to be financially viable (when we started to be able to buy milk in the supermarket for less money than the farmer received to produce it). Factory farming is the only way to produce the cheap meat for a growing population. I once read that if all the chickens and eggs eaten in Germany were free range you would need an area larger than Germany for the chickens to live in. It's a sorry state of affairs. We've become too spoilt and don't care enough about where what we eat comes from. I'm not preaching as I am as guilty as anybody else.

Headhuunter

neilo23 wrote:

I don't think I will ever become a proper vegetarian, but I certainly don't see any harm in reducing my meat intake. I'm 2 years shy of 40, so I'm not talking about the times of rationing, but when I was a kid we had our Sunday roast and ate the left over meat for the next couple of days because meat was expensive.
My dad worked on a farm and our milk came practically fresh from the cow, the animals grazed out in the fields, eggs came from the chickens which "hung out" in the barns. The farm closed when it ceased to be financially viable (when we started to be able to buy milk in the supermarket for less money than the farmer received to produce it). Factory farming is the only way to produce the cheap meat for a growing population. I once read that if all the chickens and eggs eaten in Germany were free range you would need an area larger than Germany for the chickens to live in. It's a sorry state of affairs. We've become too spoilt and don't care enough about where what we eat comes from. I'm not preaching as I am as guilty as anybody else.

Yes but the reason you need all that space to raise chickens to feed all of Germany or whatever your analogy was is that currently people in the developed world eat far too much meat, way more than our bodies were designed to consume. As the price of chicken (and other meat) rose in response to more expensive free range production techniques, demand would fall off and people would only eat meat 2-3 times per week and the Sunday roast would last a couple of days as you outline, therefore there would not be as much space needed to raise animals. Supply and demand would even things out. People should not expect to eat meat in huge quantities with every meal.

neilo23

Headhuunter wrote:

neilo23 wrote:

I don't think I will ever become a proper vegetarian, but I certainly don't see any harm in reducing my meat intake. I'm 2 years shy of 40, so I'm not talking about the times of rationing, but when I was a kid we had our Sunday roast and ate the left over meat for the next couple of days because meat was expensive.
My dad worked on a farm and our milk came practically fresh from the cow, the animals grazed out in the fields, eggs came from the chickens which "hung out" in the barns. The farm closed when it ceased to be financially viable (when we started to be able to buy milk in the supermarket for less money than the farmer received to produce it). Factory farming is the only way to produce the cheap meat for a growing population. I once read that if all the chickens and eggs eaten in Germany were free range you would need an area larger than Germany for the chickens to live in. It's a sorry state of affairs. We've become too spoilt and don't care enough about where what we eat comes from. I'm not preaching as I am as guilty as anybody else.

Yes but the reason you need all that space to raise chickens to feed all of Germany or whatever your analogy was is that currently people in the developed world eat far too much meat, way more than our bodies were designed to consume. As the price of chicken (and other meat) rose in response to more expensive free range production techniques, demand would fall off and people would only eat meat 2-3 times per week and the Sunday roast would last a couple of days as you outline, therefore there would not be as much space needed to raise animals. Supply and demand would even things out. People should not expect to eat meat in huge quantities with every meal.

That's what I meant. You just expressed my opinion better than I did.

CyclingBantam

I really do agree with Headhunter and most others on here.

I eat a lot of meat, but I pay a lot for it from Farmers markets. It is absolutely beautiful and has a taste unlike meat from supermarkets.

I do wonder if I should cut down on the meat I eat (probably have it in 5-6 meals per week, however, on the flip side the lass I spend at farmers markets the more likely they are to stop running (whilst they are in the minority for shopping location).

I find it staggering the ignorence in this country around where our food comes from. You see adverts on TV of a wet dog looking sad and people will happily pay their £5 per month to the RSPCA yet at the same time tuck in to their cheap eggs because, like Will pointed out "why should I pay more".

Will, not to have a go, because this is a really interesting thread and you are by no means the cause of cruelty to all animals but:

Look at a side of A4 paper then imagine 2 chickens sat on it (sat, because they probably can't walk). They live pretty much their whole life on that bit of paper, laying eggs for you to eat. When you buy those eggs, you are paying your £1 to keep those chicken's living like that. If you paid £2.50 you could get nicer eggs and also be paying for those chickens to wander round outside whenever they wanted.

Headhuunter

CyclingBantam wrote:

I really do agree with Headhunter and most others on here.

I eat a lot of meat, but I pay a lot for it from Farmers markets. It is absolutely beautiful and has a taste unlike meat from supermarkets.

I do wonder if I should cut down on the meat I eat (probably have it in 5-6 meals per week, however, on the flip side the lass I spend at farmers markets the more likely they are to stop running (whilst they are in the minority for shopping location).

I find it staggering the ignorence in this country around where our food comes from. You see adverts on TV of a wet dog looking sad and people will happily pay their £5 per month to the RSPCA yet at the same time tuck in to their cheap eggs because, like Will pointed out "why should I pay more".

Will, not to have a go, because this is a really interesting thread and you are by no means the cause of cruelty to all animals but:

Look at a side of A4 paper then imagine 2 chickens sat on it (sat, because they probably can't walk). They live pretty much their whole life on that bit of paper, laying eggs for you to eat. When you buy those eggs, you are paying your £1 to keep those chicken's living like that. If you paid £2.50 you could get nicer eggs and also be paying for those chickens to wander round outside whenever they wanted.

I read somewhere that in the 1950s farm raised chickens took an average of 6 weeks (or something like that) to reach maturity. Nowadays they are expected to be ready for the supermarket in about 2-3 weeks. They are pumped full of high fat food and water and given steroids to build them up much more quickly and, as you point out, cannot usually walk simply because bone does not develop as fast as flesh, so these farms essentially raise mutant chicks on steroids, the body of a bodybuilder on the frame/bones of a baby. Often the bones break or simply cannot support the weight of the mutant oversized body.

Also, because they simply do not move in the 2-3 weeks before slaughter, the sat fat content is massive, much higher than chickens raised in the 50s and earlier. Have you ever looked at organic chicken drumsticks? The bones are much longer because they have been raised in a more natural fashion and given longer to grow before slaughter....

CyclingBantam

It is horrific.

It is hard to discuss things like this sometimes as it can seem to be a lecture to people but I am astounded in a so called westernised country, animal cruelty is allowed like it is.

Over the last few years there has been a bit more publicity about chickens in particular (Hugh Fearnly-Whittingstall's excellent programmes and Chicken out campaign) but I think people still like to block out the facts and just by their cheap chicken without considering it's provernence.

There is no way I absolutely avoid any meat that has come from a cruel source (I occasionally get a Pizza for example) but it should be made easier to understand the conditions animals have been raised in on packaging, not simply some vague statement that implies they are well looked after when that probably isn't actually the case.

rick_chasey

The solution has got nothing to do with knowing about what happens.

The solution is to make organic meat cheaper.

I don't get organic chicken because it's so much more expensive.

Expensive condiments I can tolerate, expensive vegetables even - the differences between expensive and not are small - but meat is the most expensive part of dinner anyway and a 80-100% price increase my wallet can't tolerate.

freehub

I'm sorry but I'm not going to start paying twice as much for twice as less eggs, I might aswell be vegetarian if everyone is accusing me of animal cruelty because there is no way I can afford expensive meat my shopping would be 50+ quid a week.

CyclingBantam

No I disagree. It isn't to make it cheaper because 'non organic (I know that is crudely put)' will always be cheaper.

Money shouldn't be the only consideration. Buying meat from animals that have been cruely treated is actively supporting and encouraging animal cruelty.

In one of the wealthiest countries in the world there is a tiny, tiny percentage of people here who really can not afford to buy fairly reared meat. If we can't afford a lot of it we should then eat less/make it go further.

Saying make it cheaper is like saying sweatshops should be encouraged until other retailers can match the price.

If you are not buying organic meat because of the price you are putting the home comforts/luxuries above an animals welfare which doesn't sit well with me personally.

I don't mean this as a personal dig as it is your money and your choice bt I couldn't make the same choice you do if I was thinking about what I was making happen.

freehub

If I ever get in a 40,000+ a year job maybe I will go and buy only top quality meat.

rick_chasey

CyclingBantam wrote:

No I disagree. It isn't to make it cheaper because 'non organic (I know that is crudely put)' will always be cheaper.

Money shouldn't be the only consideration. Buying meat from animals that have been cruely treated is actively supporting and encouraging animal cruelty.

In one of the wealthiest countries in the world there is a tiny, tiny percentage of people here who really can not afford to buy fairly reared meat. If we can't afford a lot of it we should then eat less/make it go further.

Saying make it cheaper is like saying sweatshops should be encouraged until other retailers can match the price.

If you are not buying organic meat because of the price you are putting the home comforts/luxuries above an animals welfare which doesn't sit well with me personally.

I don't mean this as a personal dig as it is your money and your choice bt I couldn't make the same choice you do if I was thinking about what I was making happen.

If you thought like that I doubt you could buy anything.

Have a mobile phone? That battery in the phone will have metal mined from the Congo. The UN has come out plenty of times sayin that if people stopped buying this particular metal from Congo - the awful fighting that is there will cease.

Sames goes for all sorts of products.

You can make it cheaper with a subsidy anyway. Farmers get tonnes of subsidy anyway, so why not change the rules on it?

Monkeypump

CyclingBantam wrote:

I eat a lot of meat, but I pay a lot for it from Farmers markets. It is absolutely beautiful and has a taste unlike meat from supermarkets.

freehub wrote:

I'm sorry but I'm not going to start paying twice as much for twice as less eggs, I might aswell be vegetarian if everyone is accusing me of animal cruelty because there is no way I can afford expensive meat my shopping would be 50+ quid a week.

The problem is that some of us are fortunate enough to be able to choose how much we pay for meat, whilst some of us are not.

The unfortunate reality is that most of the UK population* expect to have meat (or animal produce) in some form at most, if not all, meals. This hasn't always the case, but the supply/demand model that currently exists supports intensive/factory farming, mechanised meat, etc.

It is far too easy for the majority to ignore where meat is sourced and how it is produced, and I fear the demand for £2 chickens and the like will never go away.

I'd be quite happy if such methods of meat production were banned, all meat was raised in the best and most natural way, and cost twice as much. Same for eggs, dairy, etc. I am, however, in the minority.

*edit: most of the meat-eating UK population

CyclingBantam

It is a fair point Monkey but with a little change to our cooking habits (being a little more thrifty) you can eat very good meat, very cheaply. As I have said above, it is a tiny percentage that really can't affford it in the UK. The majority choose not to (food morality comes behind fags, booze, sky tv, computers, bike stuff etc.). Where the choice is made, fine but at least people should be honest and not just say it is too expensive so they have to eat intensively reared meat.

My quote that I pay a lot is because of the cuts of meat I buy. I buy my food as my treat so will pay more for a steak etc. When I had a lot less cash I didn't buy the same cuts but still ate lovely meat.

The reasons for the cheap meat being there are exactly as you have listed. That doesn't mean it is right though. I would love to have even more expensive meat that currently I wouldn't buy. I don't think animals being cruely treated should happen so I can have it though.

Rick - Re. the argument that you could stop buying anything because of the consequences, you are absolutely right. However, it isn't realistic to do that, nor does it mean you should give up on any morals because you can't get everything right.

The way I look at it is, if I don't buy that chicken/meat in a supermarket, along with 10 other people, less of it will be ordered in future etc.

With my phone battery, you would need a far greater number of people to make a difference. I am by no means moral and clean living in every way but I try as hard as I can where I can. I think meat is a very easy way to change/be informed about.

freehub

Food does not come behind my computer of bike stuff, I have what used to be a high end pc, quad core etc.., but it's 2 years old and If I upgrade, it's costing around 20 or so quid after selling my current parts. My bike hardly costs anything, my biggest spend is on food and I spend relatively little, I probs spend around £100 a month in total not including rent.

CyclingBantam

I spend around £130 per month on food and eat the odd steak or duck breast!

You could easily buy top notch meat for that much a month. Do you spend money on Pop and crisps etc? That is where it all adds up!

If you went to a Farmers market (there will be more than one in Manchester I expect) you could buy a whole organic chicken for £7-£8 and easily get 3-4 meals out of it. Veg costs next to nothing (bag of potato's, which ever type you want in season) £3.50 will last you a week, you could buy mince, pork belly (really nice), chicken drum sticks, sausages all easily within that budget.

What sort of meals do you eat in the average week?

I'm telling you, a slight change to how you prepare food can mean you can eat really good quality food, much cheaper than the supermarket. You will cycle quicker as a result. We eat so much crap in this country it is unreal (I am included in that!)

rick_chasey

CyclingBantam wrote:

I spend around £130 per month on food and eat the odd steak or duck breast!

You could easily buy top notch meat for that much a month. Do you spend money on Pop and crisps etc? That is where it all adds up!

If you went to a Farmers market (there will be more than one in Manchester I expect) you could buy a whole organic chicken for £7-£8 and easily get 3-4 meals out of it. Veg costs next to nothing (bag of potato's, which ever type you want in season) £3.50 will last you a week, you could buy mince, pork belly (really nice), chicken drum sticks, sausages all easily within that budget.

What sort of meals do you eat in the average week?

I'm telling you, a slight change to how you prepare food can mean you can eat really good quality food, much cheaper than the supermarket. You will cycle quicker as a result. We eat so much crap in this country it is unreal (I am included in that!)

£130 for two?!

Edit: re-read, thought you said £130 a week...

keef66

@ Will " paying twice as much for twice as less eggs"

Not sure about animal cruelty, but that's clearly serious abuse of grammar! I'm hoping it's not English you're studying.


@ headhunter "way more than our bodies were designed to consume"

Unless you're one of those creationist types, you'll know that our bodies weren't designed, they've evolved Proponents of the Paleo diet would have us believe we are adapted to eat a lot of meat. I think we're more of an opportunistic omnivore because we can survive on pretty extreme diets. If you live on an ice sheet you can get by eating almost exclusively seal meal and fish. In sub-saharan Africa they survive on stuff like sorghum, and elsewhere billions exist on little more than rice.