Are UK sportives beginning to have a laugh?

Anonymous

For those interested in doing the Bikeradar Spring Fling ride on Sunday, organised by my good self and Pokerface, I've managed to get some gels, bottles and pro hydrate from CNP to dish out at the start, all FOC.

This ride will be the rival of any sportive

DaveMoss

Have not read all posts, so apologies min advance for any repetition.

A stab at some perspective.
At least one audax organiser has made it clear, the low cost is only possible because of "free" time put in by themselves and other volunteers. the same is true for sportiv es and other rides organised by clubs.
But this "free" time is not really yours for free, at some point, maybe not this year, maybe not this time of your life, but at some point, if you take advantage of this "free" time, you should do the decent think and do your bit for the sport by givving of your time for free. To not do so would make you a complte bounder and a cadd.

2) A sportive, IMHO, should be long, (at least 80 miles) therefore a refueling stop is something worthwhile even for experienced cyclists. (so much better to be able to ride light and be fedd regularly). First aid cover, facilities a time to see how you did compared to others are arguably extras you can live without, but for many these do add value as doe the big event atmosphere . The route signing is also worth something for most..

So now we have a Value something like £7 (typical Audax entry) plus say £7 for the mid rides feeds (i do eat a lot, lets say £5 then) , £2 for the effort of the timeing (no need for the electronic gadgets) , £2 for the first aid(a lot mor if I really need it) and £1 if further back up, £2 for the route signing and £1 for a shower and the "value" is now £20.

I still have not put in a price for organisers/volunteers time, but that is besides the point, what I am doing is comeing up with what I think the sportive experience is "worth" to me, regardless of who does it. So anyone who can put on a good event in the region of £20 to £25 is welcome to any money they can squeeze from it. If it's a genuine charity event, i'm happy to pay a bit extra, but a £35 plus commercial event has me priced out. Shorter events and ones that skimp on the signs or feeds,are a rip off.

Re an earlier post, I too am suspicious of some so called "charity" events where it looks suspiciously like the charity bit is simply that they allow a charity to have some spaces to sell on at an inflated cost of "sponsorship" money (Etape Caledonia looks like this, I could be wrong). However, others enlist none cycling volunteers to run the event and manage to put almost all of the entry fees into the charities funds. With gift ais it's even possible for the charity to get more thann the total of the entry money.

bompington

DaveMoss wrote:

Re an earlier post, I too am suspicious of some so called "charity" events where it looks suspiciously like the charity bit is simply that they allow a charity to have some spaces to sell on at an inflated cost of "sponsorship" money (Etape Caledonia looks like this, I could be wrong).

about £400,000 wrong

Gazzaputt

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

Investing in something better than green bananas would be good at the feed stations.

Sorry but for the entry fee I found the HOTA poor value.

Other sportives I have done for the same fee at least give decent food at feed stations and food after the event.

Downland Cycles's sportives are excellent value and Circuit of Kent is pricey but provides well stocked feed stations and a good feed after the event.

donkykong

buy your own tea and cakes on a audax, lots beter value for money.

JD_76

Buckled_Rims wrote:

I like the idea of sportivepirates though

+1

If the prices keep going the way they are this will be the trend, as public roads are exactly that.
I hear more and more people every year doing this, not done it myself yet but am very tempted @ £30+ a go.

Brakeless

Gazzaputt wrote:

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

Investing in something better than green bananas would be good at the feed stations.

Sorry but for the entry fee I found the HOTA poor value.

Other sportives I have done for the same fee at least give decent food at feed stations and food after the event.

Downland Cycles's sportives are excellent value and Circuit of Kent is pricey but provides well stocked feed stations and a good feed after the event.

+1. A good route but no parking at HQ and the worst 'feed' stations I have seen on any sportive.

sampras38

slunker wrote:

Why not just ride the route with a few mates and a couple of bananas in your pocket with some energy drink, cost?..........nothing!!!!

Bit boring though eh?

I quite like the idea of riding a new route with groups of riders I've never met before. Riding with the same old faces is just dull..;-)

sampras38

Marlin151 wrote:

If you're traveling solo 2 hrs+ from home to ride an event, it's comforting to know you can rely on a sag wagon / paramedic should the worst occur. For major events with 2000+ riders, a £25 cost seems reasonable. Also, you get a pro photographer capturing your pained expression many times as you just make it up to the top of another 20% climb...sometimes several times!

However, the idea that this can be pushed to £30+ by greedy organisers is, I think, verging on the obscene. I pushed the quit button on my dragon entry this year because I objected to the "admin fee" added onto the massively increased 2011 fee. Sure 3000 signed up for this years event, but I wonder how many of these, like me, endured the shabby organisation that led to feed stations last year completely devoid of food and energy drinks after the Rhrigos climb?

The fact is there are often plenty of local events for a very reasonable entry fee (£5 - £10) and even the likes of Evans are doing supported 90m rides for £12.50. My advice would be to do a signature event once and once only. Then hunt around and enjoy a great 100K /100m local event for no more than a couple of pints and a packet of crisps. Probably get some friendly local club riders to share a turn on the front as well....

From what I understand there was a cock up regarding the energy drink supplies from SiS last year, and they got sachets instead of barrels. It meant that some riders were grabbling great handfuls of sachets and so they ran out quite quickly. iirc the organisers apologised for this.

I tend to rely on my own supplies so it didn't bother me, but i can see how it would wind people up.

Fixed Wheelnut

Gazzaputt wrote:

[

Investing in something better than green bananas would be good at the feed stations.

Sorry but for the entry fee I found the HOTA poor value.

Other sportives I have done for the same fee at least give decent food at feed stations and food after the event.

Downland Cycles's sportives are excellent value and Circuit of Kent is pricey but provides well stocked feed stations and a good feed after the event.

We know about the banana's, we were promised ripe but it was too late to refuse them at point of delivery.
Le one of our members sorted through them to try and sort out the best of a bad bunch.
There were energy bars as well but as usual some later riders were left without.
I will let the Committee know Gary, what sort of stuff would you prefer to see at feed controls bearing in mind the controls have basic catering and approx 5-6 volunteers for 1000 riders.
I'll do my best to see it's improved.
cheers
Steve

phreak

I thought the HOTA was fine. As you say there were energy bars there. The route is only just over 100km so I don't think you need all that much more than you should have on you anyway.

DaveMoss

bompington wrote:

DaveMoss wrote:

Re an earlier post, I too am suspicious of some so called "charity" events where it looks suspiciously like the charity bit is simply that they allow a charity to have some spaces to sell on at an inflated cost of "sponsorship" money (Etape Caledonia looks like this, I could be wrong).

about £400,000 wrong

Actually it seems more than that figure was raised, but the point is, as far as I can make out. not one penny of that comes from the £58 entry fee. Rather, it comes from the individual riders who sign up to do it collecting "sponsorship" money.Cannot be a bad thing if that much is raised for a good cause, but my point is that branding itself as a charity event is maybe not completly honest. How many entrants think that a good chunk of the entry fee goes to the charity! . Essentially all the fundraising seems to be done by the charity and their supporters, the organisers don't appear to give very much in return from the credibility gained from the association with the charity and the charity encouraging thousands of people to give £58 to the commercial organisers.
If you are so inclined you can collect sponsor money for any good cause for any bike ride, including any audax you choose. Personally I could not do that, not riding my bike would be the sacrifice; maybe I will get people to sponsor me to not ride the etape caledonia.

I cannot decide if it's good or bad in the end, but I still don't think I'm wrong with what I'm saying.

Boleynboy

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

[

Investing in something better than green bananas would be good at the feed stations.

Sorry but for the entry fee I found the HOTA poor value.

Other sportives I have done for the same fee at least give decent food at feed stations and food after the event.

Downland Cycles's sportives are excellent value and Circuit of Kent is pricey but provides well stocked feed stations and a good feed after the event.

We know about the banana's, we were promised ripe but it was too late to refuse them at point of delivery.
Le one of our members sorted through them to try and sort out the best of a bad bunch.
There were energy bars as well but as usual some later riders were left without.
I will let the Committee know Gary, what sort of stuff would you prefer to see at feed controls bearing in mind the controls have basic catering and approx 5-6 volunteers for 1000 riders.
I'll do my best to see it's improved.
cheers
Steve[/quote

Well done for acknowledging the complaints Steve, it was my second HOTA and I love the course but the parking was woeful and the feed stations were poor. I always carry enough for myself and I did not stop at the first feed, but the second was v.disappointing.
I was not there that late and there were no energy bars to be seen, and there were plenty of riders around me all looking fairly disappointed.
As I have stated in a different post, why was there a guy handing out flapjack at the finish, he should have been 13 miles down the road at the feed stop!
For the money you charged this needs to be addressed, but I will still ride it next year because the route, signs and marshalls are some of the best I have experienced.

Gazzaputt

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

[

Investing in something better than green bananas would be good at the feed stations.

Sorry but for the entry fee I found the HOTA poor value.

Other sportives I have done for the same fee at least give decent food at feed stations and food after the event.

Downland Cycles's sportives are excellent value and Circuit of Kent is pricey but provides well stocked feed stations and a good feed after the event.

We know about the banana's, we were promised ripe but it was too late to refuse them at point of delivery.
Le one of our members sorted through them to try and sort out the best of a bad bunch.
There were energy bars as well but as usual some later riders were left without.
I will let the Committee know Gary, what sort of stuff would you prefer to see at feed controls bearing in mind the controls have basic catering and approx 5-6 volunteers for 1000 riders.
I'll do my best to see it's improved.
cheers
Steve

Flapjacks would be a nice addition.

Also be nice for £20 to see some food at the end of the ride included in the price.

As I said most sportive rides include food at the end.

I did the VO2 on Sunday and they had just water and bananas at the feed stops but at the end there was a nice selection of cakes, sausages rolls,tea and coffee all included in the entrance fee.

Bobbinogs

I did a lovely audax starting from Porlock in Somerset yesterday. Route was simply stunning (helped by the weather, obviously) and challenging but not stupidly so (although I had to hang on to a wheel for the last 15, thanks Stewart :oops: ). Great turnout and a great spirit from all the riders and control staff...and the finish included a big fat load of scones with strawberry jam and fresh clotted cream (and all the tea/coffee one could drink) all included in the entry price of £3.50.
[ironic font] Outrageous. Obviously audaxes are beginning to have a giraffe too [/ironic font]

Buckled_Rims

What I can't understand is why those who need to feed at control stations (many stuffing down sausage rolls like they've been without food for days) are being subsidised by those who don't use it except for water?

Why can't they be a water tent for free, then a food tent where riders pay a £1 or £2 for their feeds?

At least that'll be slightly cheaper costs for most of us if there's 2 or 3 feed stations to maintain.

nic_77

Could someone remind me why a sportive should not be run to make a profit?? Why should anyone put on an event for free, especially when there are punters willing to pay to take part!


Many people enjoy going to the theatre - they like to see a good show, and will expect to buy a ticket. No one would question the theatre company attempting to make a profit.

Of course if the ticket price is too dear there will be empty seats. Then on the night if the show isn't up to standard, or not value for money, the audience might boo, and may even choose not to see a play produced by the same theatre company again. Eventually standards will improve or the company will go out of business.

Likewise some people prefer to get inolved with or go to see amateur dramatics instead. The expectations might be lower and the organisers tend not to be trying to make a profit unless it is for some charitable purpose. As a result the audience are likely to be more sympathetic to any shortcomings in the event.


If you don't like what you are getting for your sportive money - you have two choices:
1. Complain and stop entering them
2. Try the audax alternative, but accept that it is a different type of event

Gooner69

What ShropshireLad said earlier in the thread.

As an organiser you very early on decide if you are out to make as much profit as possible, or simply run the events because you love cycling and are that "type" of person.

Costs very quickly run away from you, especially without sponsorship. And its worth remembering some items have the same financial outlay if you have ten riders or ten thousand.

I agree that photography costs are high (we now have an independant taking our pics at much lower rates) and it can seem harsh to arrive at a feedstop to find it stripped bare. Thankfully this has never happened to us yet!

But remember that when you have finished, drunk your celebratory cider in the momento tankard awarded for completion (obviously our event). We are beginning sweeping the route for stragglers/breakdowns, collecting the feedstations and furniture. Then beginning the full 160 miles (both routes) collecting signage!

If that sounds like i didnt enjoy it, dont be fooled. It was great fun and we met some ace people.
But i can assure you for the time /man hours involved my "day" job pays much better

Tony www.Blackratcycle.co.uk

Philip Whiteman

nic_77 wrote:

Could someone remind me why a sportive should not be run to make a profit?? Why should anyone put on an event for free, especially when there are punters willing to pay to take part!


Many people enjoy going to the theatre - they like to see a good show, and will expect to buy a ticket. No one would question the theatre company attempting to make a profit.

Of course if the ticket price is too dear there will be empty seats. Then on the night if the show isn't up to standard, or not value for money, the audience might boo, and may even choose not to see a play produced by the same theatre company again. Eventually standards will improve or the company will go out of business.

Likewise some people prefer to get inolved with or go to see amateur dramatics instead. The expectations might be lower and the organisers tend not to be trying to make a profit unless it is for some charitable purpose. As a result the audience are likely to be more sympathetic to any shortcomings in the event.


If you don't like what you are getting for your sportive money - you have two choices:
1. Complain and stop entering them
2. Try the audax alternative, but accept that it is a different type of event

This is a fair comment and would not wish to contest that organisers should be allowed to make a profit. Personally speaking, I am quite content to enter a commercial event but only on the condition that it is not a rip-off and they deliver what they promise. Unfortunately, there is a minority of commercial sportive events that deliver neither and cast an unwanted shadow over the more scrupulous organisers.

Christophe.cdb

nic_77 wrote:

Could someone remind me why a sportive should not be run to make a profit?? Why should anyone put on an event for free, especially when there are punters willing to pay to take part!

If you don't like what you are getting for your sportive money - you have two choices:
1. Complain and stop entering them
2. Try the audax alternative, but accept that it is a different type of event

That is what this tread is about ... a complaint

Maybe people should go and do one of the sportcommunication.com events in France they charge 45EUR and see what the difference is...
Or the Maratona in Italy I think they charge about 90 EUR but you get a lot for that


As I posted earlier, in Belgium you get the same style of events for 5EUR... all the work that needs to be done for the organising club is the same...
I didn't see anyone responding to the question why the prices are so massively different... the only conclusion I can come to is that there are massive profits
(25GBP-5GBP) =20 * 500 entrants = 10k... did I mention that in that 5 EUR insurance is included

But charge me 25 -35 -45 GBP and give me decent food stops a decent meal afterwards and something that remotely represents the value and I will keep quiet... but that is still more the exception than the rule...

There is a long way to go...

Ron Stuart

Firstly speaking as someone who has done French Sportives, the Maratona and the Grand Fondo Nove Colli (4 times). My experience was that they were fantastically run and fantastic value for money. On each event I got either proper cycling shirt or in the case of the Nove Colli I managed over 4 years to acquire a full set of kit a piece each year which was a cycling shirt, cycling shorts the next year, a gillet the next year and finally a pair of 3/4 bib longs all good quality stuff, plus other goodies.
The French sportive I did was about 27 euro and I got a great ride 350 marshals involved at all junctions and a three course meal at the finish (with a glass of wine).
The Nove Colli I did via a bike hotel so there was a surcharge for a transfer of 80 km there and back and the hotel sorted my entry, cost to me was around 45 euro.
I did the Maratona in 2006 with the Cycling Weekly team and I think I paid around 55 euro (it's now 80) but its closed roads, maybe has got a bit steep (cost).
The main thing to bear in mind when comparing UK and Continental Sportives is that the nations that I have listed are cycling nations and the country is fully behind the sport of road racing and cycling in general, that way the organizers attract major sponsors for their events, so effectively it is heavily subsidized.

JD_76

I like sportive events as they give people who are new to cycling the opportunity to ride with a group of riders without having to join a club or have a race licence.

A novice can learn allot from just talking to other riders and looking at what equiptment others use + if it gets people out on bikes then thats got to be a good thing.

I ride in them and enjoy the day everytime, some I pay for some I dont, if you think the price is high just ride for free.

garetjax

I did the Salzkammergut mountain bike event in Austria last year. The road was closed off for the entire day. Local B&B owners were up at 5am to make breakfast for the early starters. There was a funky count down which psyched us up to the minute we set off, and then a DJ blared out "GO..GO...GO.." at which point the large crowd of spectators cheered and 3000 mountain bikers set off for the mountains . Feed stations had home made sandwiches and pastries as well as the usual energy products. Ambulances were stationed high up in the mountains. A helicopter ferried spectators up to the top of the mountain. Off road motor cyclists with mounted cameras filmed the mountain bikers and the images were transmitted live to a huge TV screen in the centre of the lovely host town of Bad Goisern, which had a carnival like atmosphere from dawn till dusk. Finishers got a good quality t-shirt and goody bag.
But my most treasured memory is of the hundreds of locals lining the mountain tracks, clapping, ringing bells and shouting "Bravo ! ". Entry cost? About £40.

Cycling in Cheshire on a summers day is a delight, but IMHO the Cheshire Cat Sportive was poorly organised. And did anyone see that guy in his four-wheel drive blasting his horn and shouting at us all to F*** off the road?

petemadoc

JD_76 wrote:

I like sportive events as they give people who are new to cycling the opportunity to ride with a group of riders without having to join a club or have a race licence.

A novice can learn allot from just talking to other riders and looking at what equiptment others use + if it gets people out on bikes then thats got to be a good thing.

I ride in them and enjoy the day everytime, some I pay for some I dont, if you think the price is high just ride for free.

I agree with this . . .

But how acceptable is it to ride a sportive for free? Other than topping up my water bottles I could have ridden Cheshire Cat without paying the entry fee! Paying the fee made me wait in the cold for an hour before starting and not get a certificate/medal because I didn't want to wait in a queue for another hour at the end.

petemadoc

Christophe.cdb wrote:

nic_77 wrote:

Could someone remind me why a sportive should not be run to make a profit?? Why should anyone put on an event for free, especially when there are punters willing to pay to take part!

If you don't like what you are getting for your sportive money - you have two choices:
1. Complain and stop entering them
2. Try the audax alternative, but accept that it is a different type of event

That is what this tread is about ... a complaint

Maybe people should go and do one of the sportcommunication.com events in France they charge 45EUR and see what the difference is...
Or the Maratona in Italy I think they charge about 90 EUR but you get a lot for that


As I posted earlier, in Belgium you get the same style of events for 5EUR... all the work that needs to be done for the organising club is the same...
I didn't see anyone responding to the question why the prices are so massively different... the only conclusion I can come to is that there are massive profits
(25GBP-5GBP) =20 * 500 entrants = 10k... did I mention that in that 5 EUR insurance is included

But charge me 25 -35 -45 GBP and give me decent food stops a decent meal afterwards and something that remotely represents the value and I will keep quiet... but that is still more the exception than the rule...

There is a long way to go...

Talking of profits, Kilo to go must make a fair whack out of their events. Lets say on average people pay £30 a ticket and they sold 3000 tickets, well that's £90k + sponserships from the likes of Wiggle less costs. I'd love to know how much it cost to host this thing

Pokerface

PeteMadoc wrote:

But how acceptable is it to ride a sportive for free? Other than topping up my water bottles I could have ridden Cheshire Cat without paying the entry fee! Paying the fee made me wait in the cold for an hour before starting and not get a certificate/medal because I didn't want to wait in a queue for another hour at the end.

Perfectly acceptable. As long as you don't use their stops.

I had the route in my Garmin, so didn't need the road signs. I didn't stop on the way. Again - my Garmin keeps my time (and I don't feel the need to compare it with anyone else's).


I was out on those roads anyway for my normal training.


When I started cycling I entered (and paid for) a lot of sportives. Now I fail to see the point. Me and NapD organized a group ride on this very forum just a week ago - so it goes to show that you can have challenging rides with other people for free if you really want to!

Zingzang

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

Could you possibly divulge the cost of the Police Notice, and indicate the nature and cost of the insurance you take out? I have been an event organiser of Open time trials for 23 years and the Police Notice has only ever cost the price of a stamp, whilst insurance is included in club affiliation to CTT. Maybe things are radically different for sportives.

mrchrispy

I did the CCat route on Sunday with some friends that had entered, I was supposed to enter but I just couldn't bring myself to dish out 32 quid (I'd have happily paid 1/2 that if I'm honest).

Anyway, while they queued for 45mins at the start where as I was able to ride ahead at a keep warm, I was following my Garmin and I carried all my own food and water.
They complained about the food (ran out of the better stuff at the stops) and didn't even bother hanging about for the medal at the end (massive queues). not a great return for the money....I think 32 quid well beyond acceptable.

FransJacques

What fixation do people have with collecting medals or certificates? I hope it's because you give them to your kids to play with. Otherwise, there is nothing sadder than a 40+ or 50+ year old man queuing for any amount of time for a cheapo, made-in-china piece of tin on a string. Come on folks, get some self-respect.

Is that what anyone wants their cycling/ their precious free time to be about?

petemadoc

Pokerface wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

But how acceptable is it to ride a sportive for free? Other than topping up my water bottles I could have ridden Cheshire Cat without paying the entry fee! Paying the fee made me wait in the cold for an hour before starting and not get a certificate/medal because I didn't want to wait in a queue for another hour at the end.

Perfectly acceptable. As long as you don't use their stops.

I had the route in my Garmin, so didn't need the road signs. I didn't stop on the way. Again - my Garmin keeps my time (and I don't feel the need to compare it with anyone else's).


I was out on those roads anyway for my normal training.


When I started cycling I entered (and paid for) a lot of sportives. Now I fail to see the point. Me and NapD organized a group ride on this very forum just a week ago - so it goes to show that you can have challenging rides with other people for free if you really want to!

Hmmm, although I can see why you have to pay for these events the only part that I really enjoyed was the riding with loads of other people and this bit you can do for free, as you did on Sunday at the CC. The only other thing I'd need to do is fill up my water but I guess you could stop at a cafe or pub or something like that.

That's made me think now, might try another sportive and not actually enter. But then I'd feel like a right cheapscate, but the again why should I pay to ride on public roads. I think I'd have to pay for a smaller event organised by a club or something but these big Kilo to go ones, they must make a packet anyways.