Are UK sportives beginning to have a laugh?

phreak

A friend told me today that the National Trust are running several sportives through their grounds this year, so off I went to have a look at a couple of them. I was shocked to find that the typical entry price was £30. One of the rides hadn't even published a route yet.

It just seems an increasingly bum deal. I mean ok you get a banana or two on the way round and perhaps a bit of energy drink but I'd be amazed if most people got more than £5 of food on the day. You get timing chips, ok, but then most people have bike computers or Garmins these days so I can't imagine that is a big selling point. They'll no doubt say you get to ride with lots of other people, but it's amazing how many sportives end up as lonely time trials.

The cynic in me thinks that organisers are cashing in on the increased popularity of cycling because I simply can't see the value. To put it into context I did the Maratona dles Dolomites last year where entry is around £60. For this you get closed roads, a mass start, something like 25 free photos of you and the event in general, video footage of yourself on each climb and at the finish, a jersey, a bidon, a gillet, live tv coverage on Italian tv, various celebs taking part and free pasta/beer/etc. at the finish (and little things like text messages to wake you up in the morning, your time at the top of each climb etc.). The free gear on its own is probably worth the entry fee!

I'm really cutting down on UK rides this year as they just don't seem worth the steep entry any more. Is anyone else feeling likewise or am I missing something?

phreak

Should have said, the photos of just me alone at Phil Conner prices would come to £112, let alone the dozen more generic event related snaps you get as well.

Crossers

Not all are a rip off, check out www.chriswalkercyclechallenge.com

markshaw77

I have to agree with you - it is hard to stomach paying out £30 a time for these events - I have certainly cut right back on the number i take part in - I would rather save the money from 8-10 sportives (what I used to do) and go away somewhere nice for a week's riding

Bobbinogs

I think there are some good sportives out there but there are many that are simply nonsense. Give me a well run audax, like those run by the Beacons club ( something like £6 a pop) any day of the week. OK, so I need to find my way around the audax routes and buy my own cake at the cafes but all that just adds to the appeal for me. It is a shame that the appeal cannot be broadened in the same way that sportives have taken off. Sportives have undoubtedly been good for cycling, I just think consumers need to show caution (and some selectivity) before they pay the large sums of money.

phreak

Yes I agree that sportives are broadly speaking a really good thing, but some of the entry fees at the moment are way out of whack with what you actually get for the money.

marcusjb

Audax is getting expensive as well - I've paid £10 for a 600km event in June. This covers camping fees, pasta party on the Friday, 4-5 feed stops. Getting outrageous!

Seriously though, it does seem sportives are getting silly with entry fees and certainly audax can be considered a good alternative for those with a little more independence.

There are loads of great events out there, including many Populaires (under 200km - i.e. 100km, 150km etc.).

I'm pretty new to the world of audax, but have found it to be extremely welcoming and friendly. Because events are generally smaller fields (50ish people typically) you start to see the same faces, and get to know people.

I love the navigating element (no arrows at junctions on an audax) and the fact that it's not all about getting round as quickly as possible - sitting chatting in a cafe having a cup of tea and cake is all part of the fun!

They are not for everyone - you do have to be able to look after yourself (no brush wagon or mechanical support (though fellow riders generally look out for each other in the event of a mechanical)).

It can sometimes be intimidating riding with people who do 1000km events etc., but I have found that no-one looks down on me because I have only done 6 or so 200km events so far (looking to build up to the 600km events this year).

Nice to see people out on bikes that really don't care about whether it's got the latest and greatest widget on, whether it's made from super-light carbon etc.

Most audaxes follow some amazing roads, and it's nice to be able to sit up and enjoy the British countryside rather than head down racing all the time.

Highly recommended alternative for the slightly more independent rider.

Philip Whiteman

Bobbinogs wrote:

I think there are some good sportives out there but there are many that are simply nonsense. Give me a well run audax, like those run by the Beacons club ( something like £6 a pop) any day of the week. OK, so I need to find my way around the audax routes and buy my own cake at the cafes but all that just adds to the appeal for me. It is a shame that the appeal cannot be broadened in the same way that sportives have taken off. .....

Flattery will get you anywhere. Now should I raise the entry fee in 2012? I fancy a holiday to some expensive location.

Now this gives me an opportunity to plug our Non-£30 event in June. My club-mate, George Barker is repeating his £8 Cotswold events on 19th June. www.beaconrcc.org.uk/audax

Philip Whiteman

Crossers wrote:

Not all are a rip off, check out www.chriswalkercyclechallenge.com

You are perfectly right. Paul Prince's Mad March Hare is another excellent example. Paul only charges £10 for what is widely regarded as an excellent event. However, these sportives remain a minority.

3Pears

I think there a number of events orgnisers now realising that there is a demand for more reasonably priced Sportives. As riders become better at carrying there own 'fuel' and perhaps only needing a water stop / odd snack and signage, then this may be the way forward.

Examples include -

Echelon Sportive £7
Mad March Hare £10
Climb on Bikes Spring Challenge £5
Epic Spring Challenge £10

These are in the West Midlands, I'm sure there must be others in other regions. Lets hope these 'no frills' type events get the support :P

bompington

It would be interesting to see the accounts for your average sportive: in other words, where does the money actually go?
Are the organisers actually making big profits? For example the Etape C, which is the only sportive that I know anything about, is run by a private management company (IMG) that, I assume, is making a profit out of the >£50 entry fee - but the Perthshire council actually subsidises it to the tune of tens of thousands. Closed roads make a huge difference to the organisers' costs of course.

Anyone here actually know what the costs of running one are rather than just sounding off like the rest of us?

Philip Whiteman

bompington wrote:

Anyone here actually know what the costs of running one are rather than just sounding off like the rest of us?

Fair comment but the answer depends upon the number of variables.

I ran an audax event earlier this year for 240 cyclists. Income amounted to £1200 before Paypal and non-member insurance fees. Out of that £1200, I had to fund mailings, fees to cafes, expenses and a meal at the end of the ride. Clearly, if I were to run it as a 'basic sportive', I would have to add £2 insurance for every rider, signage and a sag wagon. By my estimate this would equate to approximately £10, the same fee charged for the Mad March Hare. EntryCentral and Electronic Timers would bump up the price by a further £5. Audaxes are charged at a level not to make a surplus, however, due to a number of DNSs a small amount of cash was returned to my Club for investment.

I made no personal financial gain from the event. My own personal input was given for free and for the benefit of the cycling community. Clearly, a 'commercial' sportive organiser would need to add considerably more. I probably gave and equivalent of 100 hours preparation for the event for free. This included: planning and checking the courses, advertising, data entry, suffering AUK's pedentry, production of route cards, organising controllers, car park marshals, arranging cafe stops, posting Brevet Cards, handling queries, liaising with the council to undertaken road repairs, etc, etc. Clearly, commercial organisers would need to factor these inputs into their fee structure.

danowat

Paying £30 to ride a non-race, on public roads, with a few bananas and a bit of energy drink thrown in is mental, imo, but if people are happy to pay, then they will continue to charge that prices.

Personally, these types of events tend to appeal to a certain demographic of the cycling population that have plenty of disposable income, so there is certain a market for the organisers to exploit.

I'll stick with dirt cheap audaxes, which in my experiance provides an "as good" experiance as sportives, TT's and circuit races.

sampras38

I think the bottom line is yes, in the main they are expensive for what they are, but as already pointed out, they never seem to be short of people taking part..myself included. I mean, take the Wiggle Dragon as an example. Lot's of people moaning about the cost but it sells over 3000 places in a matter of hours.

...and I'm one of em..;-)

bigpikle

agree with the OP... many events are overpriced, offer little in the way of interest (or value) and seem just to be commercial opportunities to cash in on the cycling boom.

I guess if you compare the cost to a day out doing something else, it still offers quite a lot for £25-30 especially for the rider who doesnt ride with others very often or simply wants to try a new challenge or somewhere different for a day.

Thats not to tarnish every event with the same brush, as there are some crackers out there that offer great 'value' in different ways, but I certainly wont be paying £25-30 to ride 60/70 miles nowhere very special and fight for a damaged banana at a feed station any more...

bompington

sampras38 wrote:

take the Wiggle Dragon as an example

I didn't realise it was the Wiggle Dragon. At least we know who to complain to now.

sampras38

bompington wrote:

sampras38 wrote:

take the Wiggle Dragon as an example

I didn't realise it was the Wiggle Dragon. At least we know who to complain to now.

Yep, last year it changed to Verenti and then this year to Wiggle.

Kléber

sampras38 wrote:

I think the bottom line is yes, in the main they are expensive for what they are, but as already pointed out, they never seem to be short of people taking part.

Exactly. If they sell out then... the price is too low. All the same, my wish would be that riders demand - nicely - their money's worth. You seem to get a lot of variety of £30, some provide great memories whilst some are just make people regret signing up.

slunker

Why not just ride the route with a few mates and a couple of bananas in your pocket with some energy drink, cost?..........nothing!!!!

twotyred

Why not just ride the route with a few mates and a couple of bananas in your pocket with some energy drink, cost?..........nothing!!!!

Because we like the big event experience.

I'm sure all those running the London Marathon could just as easily run it with a few mates with some friends halfway round handing out drinks but it wouldn't be quite the same.

MaxwellBygraves

danowat wrote:

Paying £30 to ride a non-race, on public roads, with a few bananas and a bit of energy drink thrown in is mental, imo, but if people are happy to pay, then they will continue to charge that prices.

Got it in one. For that money you can join a club for a year, and you'll get a lot more out of that than you will any sportive.

shropshirelad

I'm not a Sportive organiser but do something else that requires temporary signs that are put out for a period of time and then collected back in - the signs are not cheap, and all the setting out and collecting back in takes ages.

I've heard of sportives where the signage is considered poor - and there are plenty of experiences of participants going the wrong way. And stories of signs being changed by locals, and of sportive organisers who have to patrol around the course several times to "refresh" the signs.

This is one of the real differences between Audaxs and Sportives - and club rides.

And I want to test my performance against other people - not really racing but I do want to see where I come in a field. So it would be no good going around a week later when conditions might be different. And I want to be part of an "event" - with timing and a result. Why do all those marathon runners enter for the London marathon - surely they could just set out a local 26 mile course and just run it when they feel on top form - saving themslelves all the travel to London, accommodation and entry costs. It's because they want to be part of an event and to have their achievement certified.

Food is just one aspect of a sportive but sometimes it's used as the main way of evaluating the ride - as if the event is really just 2 or 3 cafe stops with some "travelling" in between.

nickwill

shropshirelad wrote:

I'm not a Sportive organiser but do something else that requires temporary signs that are put out for a period of time and then collected back in - the signs are not cheap, and all the setting out and collecting back in takes ages.

I've heard of sportives where the signage is considered poor - and there are plenty of experiences of participants going the wrong way. And stories of signs being changed by locals, and of sportive organisers who have to patrol around the course several times to "refresh" the signs.

This is one of the real differences between Audaxs and Sportives - and club rides.

And I want to test my performance against other people - not really racing but I do want to see where I come in a field. So it would be no good going around a week later when conditions might be different. And I want to be part of an "event" - with timing and a result. Why do all those marathon runners enter for the London marathon - surely they could just set out a local 26 mile course and just run it when they feel on top form - saving themslelves all the travel to London, accommodation and entry costs. It's because they want to be part of an event and to have their achievement certified.

Food is just one aspect of a sportive but sometimes it's used as the main way of evaluating the ride - as if the event is really just 2 or 3 cafe stops with some "travelling" in between.

Well said. Most of the critiscisms of sportives relates to the food. For me the atmosphere is the thing. This is facilitated by the organisers. The food is rather unimportant as far as I'm concerned. Apart from water I tend to be self sufficient. If you don't like sportives don't ride them. I'm one of the many people who thoroughly enjoy them. I just wish I could afford to enter and travel to more of them.Those who compare sportives unfavourably with Audax just don't get it in my opinion. Here's to another bumper year!

phreak

It's got nothing to do with not liking sportives, read the original post again I love doing sportives, what I don't enjoy is being asked to shell out £30 for a pretty poor event.

I will continue to do good events but there are an increasing number of heavily over-priced ones. Food is a pretty small part of it.

pedalrog

The best way to show your dissatisfaction of paying exorbitant fees for sportives is simply not to do them! If everybody did this, organisers would have to have a rethink more on the lines of the excellent Beacon RCC audaxes. I for one have stopped entering anything that costs over £20.

thecrofter

At last a nice easy question that I can answer.........


YES


Well that closes this thread

nickwill

phreak wrote:

It's got nothing to do with not liking sportives, read the original post again I love doing sportives, what I don't enjoy is being asked to shell out £30 for a pretty poor event.

I will continue to do good events but there are an increasing number of heavily over-priced ones. Food is a pretty small part of it.

I'm with you on the varying quality of events. I was happy to stump up £40 (?) last year for the Etape du Dales because it was a first rate experience from beginning to end. At the other extreme I rode the Cheshire Cat a few years back and I was totally dissatisfied.
I don't mind paying top dollar for quality, but I agree that there are some organisers who are providing poor value. That goes for the rest of life as well I suppose.

danowat

shropshirelad wrote:

I'm not a Sportive organiser but do something else that requires temporary signs that are put out for a period of time and then collected back in - the signs are not cheap, and all the setting out and collecting back in takes ages.

I've heard of sportives where the signage is considered poor - and there are plenty of experiences of participants going the wrong way. And stories of signs being changed by locals, and of sportive organisers who have to patrol around the course several times to "refresh" the signs.

This is one of the real differences between Audaxs and Sportives - and club rides.

Time trials, which are a fraction of the cost, have plenty of signs that need to be put out and collected, so that arguement sort of falls a bit flat.

Not only that, but time trials actually have to have stationed marshalls throughout the entire event, which for a 50 / 100 / 12hr event is a big undertaking.

£30 sportives are money spinners IMO

mattsccm

Its cheaper than a motorcyle enduro. 60 quid gets you 5 hours riding in the Welsh forests. 50 quid gets 3 hours round a farm. I rode the Climb On event last weekend. tea and cakes at the end, village hall start. A fiver with a quid to charity.

nickwill

Whilst being pretty supportive of the UK sportive scene, I do feel that there are too many rolling or flat unchallenging routes being offered up as sportives. The classic British sportives like the Fred Whitton, the Etape du Dales and the Spud Riley have always demanded good fitness to even get round. There now seems to be a plethora of undemanding routes appearing. I fail to see the reasoning behind a lot of these.

marlin151

If you're traveling solo 2 hrs+ from home to ride an event, it's comforting to know you can rely on a sag wagon / paramedic should the worst occur. For major events with 2000+ riders, a £25 cost seems reasonable. Also, you get a pro photographer capturing your pained expression many times as you just make it up to the top of another 20% climb...sometimes several times!

However, the idea that this can be pushed to £30+ by greedy organisers is, I think, verging on the obscene. I pushed the quit button on my dragon entry this year because I objected to the "admin fee" added onto the massively increased 2011 fee. Sure 3000 signed up for this years event, but I wonder how many of these, like me, endured the shabby organisation that led to feed stations last year completely devoid of food and energy drinks after the Rhrigos climb?

The fact is there are often plenty of local events for a very reasonable entry fee (£5 - £10) and even the likes of Evans are doing supported 90m rides for £12.50. My advice would be to do a signature event once and once only. Then hunt around and enjoy a great 100K /100m local event for no more than a couple of pints and a packet of crisps. Probably get some friendly local club riders to share a turn on the front as well....