Are UK sportives beginning to have a laugh?

Pigtail

Well folks I bought a road bike in October - have been working on my fitness and cycling and have signed up for two - the Etape Caledonia and the Bealach Mor. Guess what, I'm really looking forward to them, and expect them to be worth every penny. If the Caledonia works out ok I might very well sign up for one a month over the summer.

I don't have a huge amount of disposable income, but we all make choices about how we choose to spend it, for example I probably spend less on clothes in a year than some people on here would pay for a waterproof jacket.

I've never even been for a cycle ride with other people, all my outings have been solo, and the idea of meeting up with hundreds of other people to really stretch myself very much appeals.

As for joining a club, any sort of closed exclusive group always sees themselves as much more welcoming and friendly than the people who are outside staring in do. Often they have anecdotal evidence to back that up. "Fred just turned up one day and now he's organising our summer barbecue."

The main local club here is supposed to be one of the biggest ones around, yet I've been watching the website on a weekly basis since October, and it very rarely changes. The site is so out of date that it is difficult to work out if advertised rides are for 2010 or 2011. I also emailed them to ask if I could join a training ride to see if I could cope before joining and didn't receive a reply. The Caledonia didn't need any of that soft shoe shuffle stuff - all I had to do was enter my credit card details and I'm in.

Rather than worrying about the cost - surely the most important point is that it is part of a huge upsurge in cycling, bringing many new people in.

James

polocini

I am a sportive organiser. I think the main problem is there is currently no competition. If there were two events in reasonable proximity to each other on the same day people would simply choose the best one. Once the supply outstrips the demand the prices will fall and the standards will rise.

To answer the thread question. YES.

AL

garyspain

Being based in Andalucia, we've also noticed the superb value for money of sportives out here, for 30 euros, you often get a cycling jersey in your goody bag, as well as well stocked feed stations, and free paella and beer afterwards, all served up with excellent organisation and marshalling. The rides can also be just as challenging as the big sportives such as the Marmotte, they're certainly not for the faint hearted!

Sarah

fluff.

Policing and insurance are where a large proportion of the money goes on UK sportive prices afaik. Without those you can get away with charging alot less, so smaller events can be cheaper.

polocini

Fluff, unless you are getting road closures I can't see what police costs there would be??? As for insurance, it's £60 per 100 riders through British Cycling. And then another policy for your staff.

AL

Jabster101

It’s great there are more and more events about – that’s demand I guess. But, personally, these sportive ‘brands’ that are springing up (with pretty ropey branding at that) and their email marketing campaigns etc (which all have to be paid for) I find rather unpleasant. Today I did the Jod Bank ride - just because it’s local and I thought I’d use it for an early season test run. £25 and no timing chips (just chaps noting down your number). And the feed stations closed at midday, which is a pretty shit for folk who may be plodding around just trying to do the distance. There were some grim looking hot dogs at the end, if you fancy. Smart. Oh and you get a branded bidon – wtvr.

I’ll be doing the London Phoenix reliability ride at Easter – always jolly good fun, and furious. Nice flap jacks half way round (more gels the last thing you need ffs) and a booze bar and cycle racing vids on big screen at HQ. And this year – it’s a sptve - they’re going all proper with electronic chips. And still only it’s £12.

Club run events are better, and cheaper. And any extra dosh goes to the club. Just do them.

phreak

I did the Phoenix ride the year before last. Pan flat so quick times are the order of the day but it's a decent spin. I dare say many of the rides organised by clubs are decent events. Some of the other ones I'm not so sure.

emx

the answer is to support club-organised events - not least because they are organised by riders and the revenue goes straight back into club funds and not towards some marketing company director's new Bentley, which can only be a good thing...

Boleynboy

You cannot really put the the Etape Caledonia into this argument because it is a unique event and worth every penny if riding 80 miles on closed roads is your thing (even if it is not that challenging a ride).
In my experience stick to the bigger and more established rides like the Etape, Dragon and Fred Whitton (if you can get in!). There is a reason why they sell out so quickly.
They are well organised, have great routes and high numbers of riders which means there is less of a chance of your ride turning into a lonesome time trial.
Sportives on the whole have been a positive addition to the UK road scene, but as they have become more popular less scrupulous organisers have seen a quick and easy buck to be made, and that is why there are some badly delivered, over priced events out there.
Slightly more controversial is to go and ride the route of the sportive on the day, time yourself, take your own food and drink and follow the route without paying the £30 that the organiser is charging.
I have never done this myself, but I am thinking of doing it in a local ride that is approaching because I paid last year and imo got stiffed, bad signage and the promise of a meal at the end of the ride turning out to be a dry sandwich and a packet of crisps being the main complaints.

polocini

Boleynboy- you should join the sportive pirates.http://www.sportivepirates.co.uk/Site/Home.html

AL

bompington

Pigtail wrote:

Rather than worrying about the cost - surely the most important point is that it is part of a huge upsurge in cycling, bringing many new people in.

That's exactly the problem, many of these people are Not Real Cyclists and can only do the plethora of undemanding routes that are now appearing.

We must rid cycling of this scourge! Keep cycling for Real Cyclists!

pprince

Simple supply and demand

Only if the te number of events significantly increases or the demand subsides for these events or both will fees go down

Some comparisons are unfair. My event @ a tenner is nothing like the Dragon ride or Dartmoor Classic say. They are bigger events and will have higher running costs hence higher entry fees...but there is a place for no frills and big events IMO

..and for the record, my event the Mad March Hare does see a profit. I justify this to pay for my time away from my cycle shop business. I organise and sign the event myself wih the help of my girlfriend and a handful of friends. In total I'd say the event is a weeks work in man hours spread over a number of months.

I also make a healthy donation to the local scout group, who do the catering on the day.

Paul Prince

cakewalk

pprince wrote:

Simple supply and demand

Only if the te number of events significantly increases or the demand subsides for these events or both will fees go down

Some comparisons are unfair. My event @ a tenner is nothing like the Dragon ride or Dartmoor Classic say. They are bigger events and will have higher running costs hence higher entry fees...but there is a place for no frills and big events IMO

..and for the record, my event the Mad March Hare does see a profit. I justify this to pay for my time away from my cycle shop business. I organise and sign the event myself wih the help of my girlfriend and a handful of friends. In total I'd say the event is a weeks work in man hours spread over a number of months.

I also make a healthy donation to the local scout group, who do the catering on the day.

Paul Prince

And it was a top event! More like this please.

Christophe.cdb

In Belgium, where cycling has been popular for decades, you can do similar type of 'cyclo's for 5 EUR starting fee, you get 1 or 2 feedstops where you can get waffles, some cake, banana and water or sportsdrink... so nothing different there
the routes are signed ... so nothing different there

and a free drink at the end of the ride... few events in the UK will provide this

so yes all this waffle about costs, must be greatly 'overcalculated'...

also the cycling club is organising it and any profits are for the club's account. (no charity hints)

Having said this, since last year there is a 'more professional organisation' that organises rides and also charges 20 EUR... and here you get a goody bag that in retail terms is worth the 20 EUR (whether you are interested in a tub of Isostar is another question but hey they give it)... and for these guys it is their business of which they have to pay the staff all year etc... :? so again something isn't adding up


So yes a lot of these so called sportives are way overpriced...
and what I totally hate (but this is personal) is the whole charity cover up... if it is for charity you should come out with your accounts and state how much went to charity in the end... now I am wandering....how much of my 25GBP is for the pocket and how much for the charity :roll:

flanners1

Yep I agree, many are overpriced. Did Hell of the Ashdown was great enjoyed it. I would however rather cycle with mates/club than pay £30 to ride on public roads to get a 'time'. It is a joke really; prices on the Continent are good value for Sportives as usual we take the p*ss here and rip everyone off. :x

Boycott 'em. The Rapha Roubaix ride and it's entry fee.....case in point. Doesn't even do the 'good bit'.

emx

bompington wrote:

That's exactly the problem, many of these people are Not Real Cyclists and can only do the plethora of undemanding routes that are now appearing.

We must rid cycling of this scourge! Keep cycling for Real Cyclists!

what's the definition of a 'real' cyclist..??

fungus_the_muffin_man

emx wrote:

bompington wrote:

That's exactly the problem, many of these people are Not Real Cyclists and can only do the plethora of undemanding routes that are now appearing.

We must rid cycling of this scourge! Keep cycling for Real Cyclists!

what's the definition of a 'real' cyclist..??

A snob in Rapha gear

Buckled_Rims

It's now starting to get very expensive. The petrol/diesel getting to the event, then the cost of the sportive. Even a simple sportive will now cost close to £50 for me as there's not many sportives around where I live.

I'll be lucky to do 4 this year. The 5 dales and the Ryedale Rumble are my favourites so they are certain, but not sure what else

I like the idea of sportivepirates though

nickwill

Why the sarcasm about my remark on undemanding sportives? I am not in anyway snobbish about 'real cyclists' as you suggest. I don't wear Rapha gear either. My comment was simply to suggest that a sportive route should offer a real challenge to participants. Traditionally in the UK that has involved hills. Without them you are left with a leisurely mass participation ride. That has its own value and is great for introducing new riders to the sport.
I just don't see that as a sportive. There was no hidden agenda in my remark, particularly the one that has been ascribed to me a couple of posters.

Fixed Wheelnut

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

flanners1

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

Your hard work was worth it, was a great ride and well planned. Good post-ride coverage in the comic this week as well. Well done, have to say it was worth the entry fee

phreak

Flanners1 wrote:

Fixed Wheelnut wrote:

Our club organizes the Hell of the Ashdown, initially turning the already popular reliability ride in to a sportive was to promote the club name and attract new members which it has achieved quite well, it is not a 'cash cow' for the Club.

I spent thirteen hours on the Saturday with a colleague putting up route arrows and warning signs as required by Risk Assessment, then route checked again ahead of the riders Sunday morning handing out flags etc to Marshalls and correcting changed missing arrows.
Then followed last riders around again taking them all down.
The entry fee covers Police Notice, insurance, hiring of a School to accommodate 1000 entrants, Catering for riders/Marshals and others, the timing chips and personnel that come with that, Hiring of two other halls on route for feed controls.
After all other expenses are taken out the remaining profit is for the pre arranged Charity.
Last year approx £6000 for Alzheimer's Association, this year it looks like approx £7000+ for Cancer Research.

Your hard work was worth it, was a great ride and well planned. Good post-ride coverage in the comic this week as well. Well done, have to say it was worth the entry fee

Seconded. HOTA is one sportive I always do (3rd year in a row now)

bompington

Nickwill wrote:

Why the sarcasm about my remark on undemanding sportives? I am not in anyway snobbish about 'real cyclists' as you suggest. I don't wear Rapha gear either. My comment was simply to suggest that a sportive route should offer a real challenge to participants. Traditionally in the UK that has involved hills. Without them you are left with a leisurely mass participation ride. That has its own value and is great for introducing new riders to the sport.
I just don't see that as a sportive. There was no hidden agenda in my remark, particularly the one that has been ascribed to me a couple of posters.

My apologies for attempting humour.

But actually, my point is that more or less everybody attempting a sportive is doing so because they find it challenging. Your post appeared to say "every sportive should offer a real challenge to participants at my level, and anyone who isn't up for that should go home".
This may not be what you meant, but it sure looked like it to some of us.

vorsprung

I organise an audax, it's 400km and last year it cost £7 and included a BBQ at the finish

But audax rides are not the same as Sportives

I would expect a Sportive type ride to include

1) signage
2) photographer
3) timing chips
4) mass ( 500 riders+) start
5) "feed stations" every 50km or so

All this costs money or time, to do it properly. I get the impression that the OP was concerned about events that didn't really offer the full range of Sportive items but were charging top money.

Another thing that bumps up the cost is that often Sportives are connected with a charity or a commercial organization- often both(!)

phreak

It was more a comparison to some of the rides I've done on the continent. The extreme prices aren't restricted to some of the sportives. The photographs are similarly pricey. For the same price as one photo from Phil Conner you get about two dozen at most European events.

nickwill

bompington wrote:

Nickwill wrote:

Why the sarcasm about my remark on undemanding sportives? I am not in anyway snobbish about 'real cyclists' as you suggest. I don't wear Rapha gear either. My comment was simply to suggest that a sportive route should offer a real challenge to participants. Traditionally in the UK that has involved hills. Without them you are left with a leisurely mass participation ride. That has its own value and is great for introducing new riders to the sport.
I just don't see that as a sportive. There was no hidden agenda in my remark, particularly the one that has been ascribed to me a couple of posters.

My apologies for attempting humour.

But actually, my point is that more or less everybody attempting a sportive is doing so because they find it challenging. Your post appeared to say "every sportive should offer a real challenge to participants at my level, and anyone who isn't up for that should go home".
This may not be what you meant, but it sure looked like it to some of us.

A badly expressed post on my part followed by a sense of humour bypass on my part as well. :oops:

TomBombadil

Sadly, I no longer do the UK Sportives as the entry cost is just the beginning. You frequently have to get to the start line by car and fuel costs mean that this can easily double or triple entry fee and then if it's more than 50 miles away with early starts you have to stay in a hotel. Even a cheap one costs. And then there's the weather!!!

I train frequently in Lancashire and my training route is between 40 and 60 miles which I do 2-3 times a week. I was amazed to find that a fairly local Sportive was charging £25.00 for a similar 50 mile option. When I do my training I take 1 large bottle of fluid made from Coke and Water and a bar of chocolate it costs about 50p.

Even a Taster Session at the Manchester Velodrome only costs £10.00 - including hiring a bike! I am afraid, for me, UK Sportive costs are now just too expensive in the current climate. Last year I did a sportive in the States and it was expensive but the support was better than anything I have ever seen here. At every section helpers gave out water and on hills they passed water bottles. In the UK Routes frequently conflict with traffic. Roads are open. Food and on road support is unreliable. Health and Safety isn't taken seriously. Once I finished the Etape du Dales event and the participants were so cold they could not take off their jackets but there were no foil blankets, no help and tea had to be paid for. It was horrendous. No St John's ambulance people like you would see at a Marathon event - nothing.

I have done the Etape du Tour several times and many other Sportives. I am prepared to spend good money, but as one writer says it's worth saving for one major event and getting good value. My favourite has been the Vatternrundan in Sweden. Expensive - yes - but fabulous - I have done it 5 times! For the best value I did the Tour Of Ireland Cycling challenge (twice) a 5 day fully supported challenge with average days of 140 miles and that was tough. Some days were fast - 130 miles in 6 hours and others were hard with extreme climbs. So I consider myself a cyclist - I don't know if that makes me 'real'?

The other thing is that I DO want courses that are not all extreme hills. I can climb well, but for me cycling is about the ride and not always an extreme challenge. Many of the Sportives were competing to put in the 'hardest' hills. If that's what you want. Great. But not everybody does. Some of us want a good day out, well signed, reliable food, good route, good support and value for money. On many of the UK sportives I have ridden the signs has been poor, signs go missing, or turned around (I've seen it all) and frequently there is just a single sign hidden behind a bush where there should be 2 including before or after. I think this is because they are put on by car drivers who don't see the world from a cyclists point of view who may be tired or riding hard. Signs are often designed badly so can easily be turned around by the local youths having a bit of 'fun'. Often on straight sections there is no reassuring carry straight on sign – which when you are either tired or moving fast are necessary after a few miles for confidence.

I've done many European Sportives and they do not put in these extreme hills - long yes but not ones that you a have to be under 70Kg to get up or have to crawl up at 4-6 miles an hour. If that's what you enjoy great -but it's just as challenging to cycle fast and for me much more fun!!

I'm no longer sure what I want but maybe Audaxes might be the answer. However, the entries seem complex and they 'appear' to be run by quite 'closed' groups – but that is just an impression.

Re Charity Rides. I think these are good but should focus on the Charity Nature rather than the calling them 'Sportives'. However, they still need to keep the costs down as they soon become prohibitive and if people have more cash they can always make a top up donation etc.

This year I am thinking of concentrating on a single 24 hour race - mmmmmm - I need to reconsider this a bit more - just thought I'd ramble on a bit - I think I must have had too much pre ride coffee!!!!

Sorry for the ramble - Tom

D@VE

Last year i wanted to join a club so i phone up SouthportC.C. and got a good response.
Why not try the the Bill Bradley Memorial Ride which i did.
Cost £7 i think i got a Bottle of water,banana and route.
You don't get photos,T-shirts and the like but it's for the MacMillan charity.
I think the max numbers are around 250 riders.

I was in a big group at the start which was going some.What a buzz i should of done this when i so younger then the hills :shock: what goes up
All in some of the best countryside there is.
Gets my vote.

The Southport CC wants to make this years Bill Bradley ride the biggest and best ever so we have made it very easy to enter on line. Just go to http://www.southportcc.co.ukand scroll down to the Bill Bradley heading click on the link and then click on "on line entry form".
Enter now and make sure we donate more than the £1500.00 we raised for Macmillan Cancer Relief last year.

Hope it's OK to put this here as it is for charity.

cougie

I dont agree that all sportives need hills to be a challenge.

I did the Jodrell Bank ride on Saturday and that was pitched about right for early March. 80 miles of mainly flat lanes with some fairly easy hills for a bit of a change. That was good enough for me and I'm no novice.

By comparison i hated the Cheshire Cat the other year. 50 miles of flat lanes, and then they threw another 50 miles of tough hills at you. Would have been fine for the Summer - but in March my legs just didnt fancy it.

If you want a challenge - just ride faster ?

nickwill

cougie wrote:

I dont agree that all sportives need hills to be a challenge.

I did the Jodrell Bank ride on Saturday and that was pitched about right for early March. 80 miles of mainly flat lanes with some fairly easy hills for a bit of a change. That was good enough for me and I'm no novice.

By comparison i hated the Cheshire Cat the other year. 50 miles of flat lanes, and then they threw another 50 miles of tough hills at you. Would have been fine for the Summer - but in March my legs just didnt fancy it.

If you want a challenge - just ride faster ?

I suppose in the end its down to the individual. I'm biased I suppose because i just don't like riding on the flat. I get bored and it doesn't suit my 54 year old body to be locked into one position for hours. i love that feeling of anticipation mixed with dread as a serious hill approaches. I probably hate it when I'm climbing, but nothing matches the euphoria after reaching the top. I suppose I'm guilty of trying to impose my preferences and prejudices on others. I'm certainly not in favour of scrappy events which try to include every hill at the expense of a coherent route. For me the Fred Whitton, The Etape du Dales and the Richmond 5 Dales are just about perfect because while they are hilly the routes have a logic to them.