What are you giving up for lent?

cycladianpirate

rhext wrote:

OK, I give in. The only cause of human evil is humans....not religion. But I still contend that religion is one of the most powerful tools ever created to propagate that evil and get large populations to participate.

Does it really make people happy though? People with an AIDS infection which could easily have been avoided by a condom, for example? Women subjected to genital mutilation because some thousand year old compliation of campfire stories has been interpreted to conclude that's a good thing? I could go on almost for ever.....

Good examples, and perhaps I was being a pedant (actually I was having just read my previous post).

I entirely agree with you that certain aspects of what is termed 'religion' are horrific - the two you cite are right to the point. However, I was merely trying to say that this is the way that human beings are. Whether they do these things in the name of 'religion', 'superstition', 'political beliefs' or any other number of tags you might wish to ascribe this sort of behaviour is entirely irrelevant. If history tells us anything, it's that humans can be right b*stards under certain circumstances

However, there are just as many instances of human 'kindness' to counter this 'negative' behaviour (to put it crudely, for every 'Apocalypse Now' there's a 'Schindler's List' just lurking around the corner). Trouble is that people tend to seize on the examples that fit their preconceived ideas.

rick_chasey

rhext wrote:

OK, I give in. The only cause of human evil is humans....not religion. But I still contend that religion is one of the most powerful tools ever created to propagate that evil and get large populations to participate.

Does it really make people happy though? People with an AIDS infection which could easily have been avoided by a condom, for example? Women subjected to genital mutilation because some thousand year old compliation of campfire stories has been interpreted to conclude that's a good thing? I could go on almost for ever.....

Politics...!

And good is a relative term. It even has religious connotions, given that it's a term likely formed within religious discourse, like evil.

For what it's worth, my logic assumes that religion exists in its entirety as an idea, a concept, just like any other thought.

If, of course, there is a super-natural power that determines what goes on and judges by a particular moral code, then more questions need to be asked, and I'm totally wrong.

thelawnet

rhext wrote:

Does it really make people happy though?

Yes it does. That's been well-documented by secular psychologists.

For example:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 064323.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 577517.ece
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=435412&page=1

Whether or not religion is 'true', being a member of the 'club' has many benefits. Think of the old ladies doing the church flower rota. They might not necessarily have a 'personal relationship with Jesus Christ', but what they do have is a sense of purpose, a group of friends to look after them, etc. They'll likely have continued support as they get older. It would make as much sense to argue that the local social club is harmful than the typical British church. In fact probably more, given that the social club probably serves people with excessive quantities of alcohol, whereas the hardest thing you'll find in a CofE church is a fairtrade biscuit and a cup of sweet tea.

People with an AIDS infection which could easily have been avoided by a condom, for example?

I think it might be a tad more complex than that?

Women subjected to genital mutilation because some thousand year old compliation of campfire stories has been interpreted to conclude that's a good thing? I could go on almost for ever.....

Pharaonic female circumcision is the original form and originates from the Egyptians. The association between Islam and female circumcision is simply a geographic one, viz. that Islam originated in an area where it was practised.

Will Snow

i like pancakes with golden syrup and sugar

rhext

cycladianpirate wrote:

Mmmm,

I'm afraid we did create physics. It's a set of principles that attempt to describe the universe. What passes for physics at any particularly time in human history has been discounted by future generations and the current set of principles will undoubtedly suffer a similar fate.

We didn't create physics: the universe behaves the way it behaves. What we have created is a set of models which allow us to represent that behaviour and then predict and modify it. Over time, our understanding improves, and that leads us to have to refine and occasionally even discard some of those models. You may be right in one respect: in future generations we may be using a completely different set of models of how the universe behaves, but that doesn't make the ones we have useless.

cjcp

Croissants.

Oh, wait...

FAIL.

rhext

thelawnet wrote:

rhext wrote:

Does it really make people happy though?

Yes it does. That's been well-documented by secular psychologists.

For example:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 064323.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 577517.ece
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=435412&page=1

So perhaps a more accurate statement might be that it makes some people happy? Like heroin, for example?

People with an AIDS infection which could easily have been avoided by a condom, for example?

I think it might be a tad more complex than that?

I'm not sure that it is more complex than that. It's probably my biggest problem with organised religion: the way it's used as a tool to propogate ignorance and perpetuate control. If the Catholic Church turned round and said 'It's OK, we've checked, condoms are fine. Indeed, you should really be using them if you think you might be infected, sanctity of life and all that', do you really think that wouldn't have an effect? And yes, I know they seem to be making moves in that direction, but they've taken their time....

Women subjected to genital mutilation because some thousand year old compliation of campfire stories has been interpreted to conclude that's a good thing? I could go on almost for ever.....

Pharaonic female circumcision is the original form and originates from the Egyptians. The association between Islam and female circumcision is simply a geographic one, viz. that Islam originated in an area where it was practised.

I deliberately didn't refer to Islam....I don't think it matters in this context which brand this particular practice is currently attached to! And, as I say, I have many other examples.

daviesee

bikejon wrote:

God wants your heart involved in the process and not mere adherence to Laws, as this just creates self-rightousness... which is a trapping of those that try to obey the Law by their own merit.
I'm definitely with you on the pancakes, by the way :-)

Which is why he gave us the 10 commandments obviously?

EKE_38BPM

But why no Mega shark?