Ragley mmmm Bop or On-One 456?

brant@shedfire

However, would you say the mmm bop and the blue pig are better suited to a 140mm fork (which I would upgrade to eventually)?

btw when is the new mmm bop out? and any idea of price??

Those two frames are designed around 140mm forks. People have fitted from 100 to 160's. It's not going to kill you to do that, but optimally, 140 is correct.

new mmmbop is a way of yet. Bearing in mind we're behind on current production I'm going to see if I can keep this one tight until they're landed or at least on the water.

So "ages".

Around £225-£250 is target price.

Northwind

Is it to be just an evolution of the old Bop or will it be substantially different do you reckon?

Sodfoster

Northwind wrote:

Is it to be just an evolution of the old Bop or will it be substantially different do you reckon?

Good question, the price seems competitive too. No too sure what to do now. Will it be worth the wait ??

Chinley Churner

Sorry, only just back on the forum.....

Sanderson Life definitely worth a look....

Picked up the frame at my LBS a couple of years ago and rode it as an SS with a 120mm Marzocchi Lo-Pro frk... absolutely loved it... most responsive, forgiving and fun bike I'd ridden in years.

So much in fact that I decided to build it up geared as my lightweight racer.. didn't have the cash for a decent lightweight fork so built it up as an experimental 69'er with rigid On-One carbon fork.... it's fantastic!!!!

Won Llandegla off-road duathlon on it and it really shifts around the local Dark Peak trails.

Sodfoster

Chinley Churner wrote:

Sorry, only just back on the forum.....

Sanderson Life definitely worth a look....

Picked up the frame at my LBS a couple of years ago and rode it as an SS with a 120mm Marzocchi Lo-Pro frk... absolutely loved it... most responsive, forgiving and fun bike I'd ridden in years.

So much in fact that I decided to build it up geared as my lightweight racer.. didn't have the cash for a decent lightweight fork so built it up as an experimental 69'er with rigid On-One carbon fork.... it's fantastic!!!!

Won Llandegla off-road duathlon on it and it really shifts around the local Dark Peak trails.

They are pricey though

Chinley Churner

Can you put a price on 853?

I know people get all dewy eyed about it but there's steel and then there's Reynolds 853...

I'm lucky enough to test ride a hell of a lot of bikes for work and nothing yet has topped my Sanderson.

Sodfoster

I do like the Sanderson Life frames and I have read nothing but good comments for them, however at £350 I'd be getting into On-one 456 carbon territory which I guess the extra £50 would be worth spending for a carbon frame?

decisions decisions......to be honest the frame budget was gonna be £250 and the rest of the stuff £600 so by getting a £350plus frame it really would eat into my budget. Although I guess I could just save more.

Chinley Churner

Depends I guess... I still not 100% convinced by carbon as a frame material for mtb's for us mere mortals who have to pay for their bikes. Don't get me wrong, I had a Gary Fisher Carbon Hi-Fi Pro on long term test for two years and loved it.. but would I buy a carbon mtb frame over a high quality steel or Ti?... No, I don't think I would.

Sodfoster

Chinley Churner wrote:

but would I buy a carbon mtb frame over a high quality steel or Ti?... No, I don't think I would.

That quiet interesting, I thought carbon was the be all and end all?? How come your not convinced with carbon?

I guess this is gonna start a whole new debate......Hard hitting hard tail: what is the best frame material?

Northwind

Sodfoster wrote:

Hard hitting hard tail: what is the best frame material?

It Depends Don't obsess too much about materials.

But if you're talking hardhitting, well, the Life isn't that, it's a fairly classic XC frame with the capacity to carry a slightly longer fork that traditional. Looks lovely though, ideal for people who don't want the longer travel of a Soul, saves a packet.

Sodfoster

Northwind wrote:

[
It Depends Don't obsess too much about materials.

dtail

What does it depend on? I guess Im now interested into what material makes the best hard hitting hard tail (Basically what will take a 140mm fork).

It would be good to hear the reasons why different mats are prefered.

getonyourbike

carbon is good for the 456 because it means it adds comfort for all day riding and when you stomp on the pedals, you fly. it drops a chunk of weight off other materials too

carbon, basically. its comfortable enough and can easily be built light enough to ride all day and stay pretty close to the XC guys but when you get to the downs you can have a lark and blast past them.

Though it really depends how each individual frame was designed.

Chinley Churner

I love riding carbon but, having interviewed and spoken to a lot of engineers, frame builders, carbon repairers etc, just not 100% convinced you'll get the same life out of a frame as you'll get from steel or ti. Don't get me wrong it's incredibly strong in the direction of load its designed for but I'm still not convinced about impact strength... I've seen too many roadies smash through their top tube by spinning their bars round carelessly.

Top end steel you don't really pay a significant weight penalty for and I still reckon the ride is better.

That said, if I had the cash I'd go ti in a shot... a quality ti frame genuinely is a bike for life.

Sodfoster

Chinley Churner wrote:

I love riding carbon but, having interviewed and spoken to a lot of engineers, frame builders, carbon repairers etc, just not 100% convinced you'll get the same life out of a frame as you'll get from steel or ti. Don't get me wrong it's incredibly strong in the direction of load its designed for but I'm still not convinced about impact strength... I've seen too many roadies smash through their top tube by spinning their bars round carelessly.

Top end steel you don't really pay a significant weight penalty for and I still reckon the ride is better.

That said, if I had the cash I'd go ti in a shot... a quality ti frame genuinely is a bike for life.

So is it more a question of durability? I take it there isnt must difference in weight between carbon and Ti??

Do you reckon steel is better for HT's in general or just the longer forked versions?

supersonic

There have been many threads on this topic worth reading.

As with any material, it is not just material, but how the frame is constructed. Carbon is very versatile and can be laid up and constructed in many ways to add stiffness and strength where needed and reduce weight elsewhere.

Steel is twice as stiff as titanium, and three times as stiff as aluminium. But titanium is twice as dense as aluminium, and steel three times denser. So overall frame stiffness and strength depends heavily on tube profiles. Then you can factor in fatigue resistance, weldabilty, impace toughness and so on.

Carbon can vary many of these qualities, yet remains very light for the volume of material.

All materials have pros and cons, and all can be built differently. Add costs in too. But usually there is a frame out there to suit your needs made from any material. That said you rarely see sub 4lb steel frames (too flexy) or steel or titanium full suspension (alloy and carbon is great to form, and the springs take care of shock absorption).

In a nutshell

Sodfoster

Cheers Supersonic

to be honest I need to do a bit of research on frame material.

This all started when I decided to buy a new bike (ideally a full sus) but budget dictated I couldn't afford a good one. Which got me looking at buying another HT after having a look around what was on offer I thought it would be really rewarding to build my own. So I started to look for frames, I came across the on-one and thought it was a great value buy. However, after the comments and discussions on this thread its got me thinking:

A) Building my own bike is a great Idea.

Its not just a case of keeping it cheap but also finding the balance between quality and value. Whilst at the same time tailoring the whole package to suit my riding style.

Cheers for all the posts and keep them coming if anyone has any tips/advice to pass on regarding a custom build

Chinley Churner

pic of my Sanderson 69er now on the Your Bikes

Sodfoster

Chinley Churner wrote:

pic of my Sanderson 69er now on the Your Bikes

Lovely frame I do like the Sanderson life. Must admit I am half thinking about making this build a 29er. Although Im dubious about not running a suspension fork of some kind. How do you find the on-one fork?

Chinley Churner

Love it although I'm quite liking the look of the rigid fork that Ragley are going to be bringing out at some point.... I ride quite a bit of cyclocross so having a rigid fork upfront isn't a problem for me and I definitely get more enjoyment out of my local trails on it... it's amazing how much the 29" front wheel soaks up.

Sodfoster

how are the 29ers on the harder hitting stuff?

mountain mick

well here's my On-One Carbon 456 build

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868051@N08/5520233894/

Dream Build with the Sram XX Drivetrain

Sodfoster

mountain mick wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868051@N08/5520233894/

That is one hell of a nice build Mick, Although I was never a fan of that frame design (Ugly) also have to say the trek is very nice too. What I am worried about is the pictures of your tool box drawers! WTF thats obsessive

bamish1000

'What I am worried about is the pictures of your tool box drawers! WTF thats obsessive' haha...nothing worse than not being able to find a tool or part when you need it!

Duffer

Sodfoster wrote:

What I am worried about is the pictures of your tool box drawers! WTF thats obsessive

Tool register, just out of shot

mountain mick

the photo's of the tool box is a long story but now longer on

Sodfoster

Btw Mick how do you rate the Carbon frame on the on-one?

mountain mick

the finish is not the best but for the price it's all right.
no complainents yet about it.
the weight of my build is 25lbs with the ks i900 seatpost fitted and 24lbs with just a standard non carbon post fitted

ll_sharpy

I'm going through a similar process at the moment.

I just built up a Nomad from a frame I got on flee bay. This has near enough been a dream build but now I've decided that the small frame is too small for me now and I don't want to go down the route of a longer stem and layback seatpost.

The carbon 456 is calling me as a cheap, modern material, modern design, will take all the gear off my Nomad, do it all hardtail. (Hopefully after selling the Nomad I'll also have some spare cash to give back to Mr Visa and Mr Mastercard who helped with the original build.

Some people have said I'm crazy but I've discovered that I haven't actually made use of it's full potential. I spend most of my time on local trails or up at Dalby and yeah its comfortable but it isn't doing anything I didn't do on a Scott Scale 40 with 100mm forks. I actually think that my riding technique has suffered for the last couple of years from riding full sus being clipped in.

I'm hoping a 456 is going to bring me back to basics and improve me... then I'll go full sus again.

MTB-Matt

Just as a side note and not MTB related as such, when my cousin worked at a performance exhaust manufacturers (researched tubing for many large car manufacturers including Ferrari) they found that Titanium suffered alot with stress fractures and the longevity of the material was suspect. This didn't matter for some manufacturers as the vehicles were either very low use or for racing use where the parts get replaced quickly.

The findings stopped a couple of manufacturers of motorcycle racing exhaust systems from bothering to produce road versions of the exhausts due to warranty claim problems

Has MTB Ti frame tubing been through any exhaustive tests for durability?

Carbon if laid up well should outlast any material. It does suffer from UV but modern resins combat this and the time scales are massive for problems to arise anyway