Ragley mmmm Bop or On-One 456?

Sodfoster

supersonic wrote:

The OnOne Summer Season is quite a crude frame really. Heavier plain gauge tubing, basic finish and paint. But as a cheap hard hitting frame with slack angles it works. I'd only ever use it on a budget build really, there are lighter frames about that are just as strong.

Thats interesting dont here too many people slating an on-one frame. Although I did read (I think in WMB) that the inbreed was getting stale. Any opinion on the 456?

supersonic

I'm not slating it as such, as a budget frame I think it hits the spot. I always use the 'Carrera' comparison - if Halfords released a bike with 6lb steel frame that was roughly finished, plain gauged tubing and had extremely slack angles with a 130mm fork, even for £500, I am sure people would think it to be catastrophic ;-).

The 456 is a bit of a classic now. While I don't think there is anything magic about the geo (almost all frames work fine, warranty permitting, with a inch of travel either way of the 'optimum'), it will take a big fork, and with the svelter butted tubing rides a bit smoother. Also at 5.4lbs is a decent weight given the price - is lighter than a P7 which costs 3 times as much. In that sense is also a bargain. The standard inbred at 4.8lbs is even better for just XC and light trail work.

Personally I like lighter frames though, and would err towards the Mmmbop and if had the money, the 456 carbon. The latter I think is the best value frame on the market, that weight, at that price, with the strength is truly amazing.

rubins4

That SLX group set isn't much more than just the crankset over here!! (Unless I'm missing the cheaper prices...)

Do they come with cables too?

warpcow

rubins4 wrote:

That SLX group set isn't much more than just the crankset over here!! (Unless I'm missing the cheaper prices...)

Do they come with cables too?

Yep, got mine a couple of days ago (took 3 days to ship).

Sodfoster

warpcow wrote:

rubins4 wrote:

That SLX group set isn't much more than just the crankset over here!! (Unless I'm missing the cheaper prices...)

Do they come with cables too?

Yep, got mine a couple of days ago (took 3 days to ship).

Cant believe how cheap these are!

Northwind

It depends what you want it to do, tbh... The Mmmbop is a wee bit more hardcore, the On One a better allrounder.

I love my Mmmbop, it's a brilliant bit of kit in most ways but it's stupidly stiff. People complain about comfort but that's not the issue for me, It's the lack of control- without a big tyre in the back, the rear end just goes wherever it wants, there's so little compliance that it bounces off every rock and root and at speed on rough stuff that's really not helpful. Even with a 2.3 in it run a little soft the rear wheel's still got a mind of its own, and you don't get much grip when the wheel's in the air.

Other than that the weight is good, the construction's excellent, the finish is decent, and the handling is bloody awesome- if you like that sort of thing. I really do like it and rate it but it's got that one big hindrance which I can't ignore, still the rest of the package is so good that I stick with it regardless. Compare it to a Stiffee or a Chameleon and see if it seems expensive btw

The 456 is a good honest solid bike and if you're unsure what you want is a pretty safe bet. To me they feel dead, there's no playfulness at all in the frame, they don't egg me on like my Soul did. But it's a solid, competent bit of kit and it can be evolved to do all sorts of jobs, a very safe choice.

If you want 100mm then the Scandal should be on your radar. But IMO the standard Inbred is a bit crap by comparison.

Sodfoster

Northwind wrote:

It depends what you want it to do, tbh... The Mmmbop is a wee bit more hardcore, the On One a better allrounder.

I love my Mmmbop, it's a brilliant bit of kit in most ways but it's stupidly stiff. People complain about comfort but that's not the issue for me, It's the lack of control- without a big tyre in the back, the rear end just goes wherever it wants, there's so little compliance that it bounces off every rock and root and at speed on rough stuff that's really not helpful. Even with a 2.3 in it run a little soft the rear wheel's still got a mind of its own, and you don't get much grip when the wheel's in the air.

Other than that the weight is good, the construction's excellent, the finish is decent, and the handling is bloody awesome- if you like that sort of thing. I really do like it and rate it but it's got that one big hindrance which I can't ignore, still the rest of the package is so good that I stick with it regardless. Compare it to a Stiffee or a Chameleon and see if it seems expensive btw

The 456 is a good honest solid bike and if you're unsure what you want is a pretty safe bet. To me they feel dead, there's no playfulness at all in the frame, they don't egg me on like my Soul did. But it's a solid, competent bit of kit and it can be evolved to do all sorts of jobs, a very safe choice.

If you want 100mm then the Scandal should be on your radar. But IMO the standard Inbred is a bit crap by comparison.

Cheers Northwind,

I def want a frame that will at least take a 120mm fork with a view to a 140mm eventually so the inbred is a no go. However I still aint hearing a massive argument as to why the Ragleys are a better bet, the on-ones just seem like such a bargain.

ALthough is there any out there riding one at the mo? I need to here some good things about the 465 other wise I thing im leaning to a blue pig.

getonyourbike

I'd probably save and get the 456 carbon, the lightest, its comfortable and the power transfer is good. If not, the mmmbop

Northwind

Sodfoster wrote:

I def want a frame that will at least take a 120mm fork with a view to a 140mm eventually so the inbred is a no go. However I still aint hearing a massive argument as to why the Ragleys are a better bet, the on-ones just seem like such a bargain.

The Mmmbop's a more capable descender by quite a long way. Does make it slightly less good of an allrounder but mine is my official XC bike * Not really a case of one being better than the other though really, just specialised differently.

Before I got the Bop I had a Cotic Soul- which is kinda like a 456, only better Can't take the 6 inch fork but is lighter and much more lively, and to me has the spark which the 456 lacks. Best allrounder I've ever ridden... But, I canned it for the Bop because I wanted something that'd be happier on silly downhills. It's not as good, it's just better at what I want it to do just now.

(* This is all relative, looks like me and the big yellow Bop are going downhill racing in April )

tomtomthepipersson

Love my mmmbop - bought it as a winter stop-gap bike but I'll be keeping it long term now. Similar to Northwind's view above - the back end can get bit jumpy over rough terrain, but I only really notice it at slower speeds. Quicken up the pace and it acts pretty much like any other stiff hard tail.

One thing that I do notice though is the flex in the frame when you really stomp on the pedals - really off putting at first but after 6 months I've finally got used to it.

Sodfoster

I have been looking for prices on the mmm Bop and now it seems they are few and far between. Typical! Although I still like the Blue Pig and the 456 is ridiculously good value.

Btw anyone got any opinions on the Cove Hand Job? I have seen a few cheap one on fee bay.

Northwind

Mmmbop was discontinued Didn't sell well til they put the big discounts on. Blue Pig is still around though.

Duffer

When comparing the 456 to the Blue Pig you've got to remember this - they were designed by the same man, to do the same job. How many differences can there really be?

I ride a 456, which is built up with budget kit (100mm coil recons, full deore groupset, HFX 9 brakes, Crossrides...) because it was intended as a second bike. In reality, i use it more than my "primary" full susser. It works well with a 100mm fork, and around a trail center i can keep up with my mates on their 6 inch full sussers (and drop them on the smoother sections).

I've never ridden a Ragley, so i'll vote 456 by default! Love mine!

getonyourbike

Northwind wrote:

Mmmbop was discontinued Didn't sell well til they put the big discounts on. Blue Pig is still around though.

There is a new mmmbop coming out. It'll cost £249 and the rear brake caliper will be on the seatstay, not the chainstay. The new colours are still tbc.

Sodfoster

getonyourbike wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Mmmbop was discontinued Didn't sell well til they put the big discounts on. Blue Pig is still around though.

There is a new mmmbop coming out. It'll cost £249 and the rear brake caliper will be on the seatstay, not the chainstay. The new colours are still tbc.

Any idea when its out? I cant find anything out about it, all I can find is stuff on the pig-let.

hoochylala

getonyourbike wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Mmmbop was discontinued Didn't sell well til they put the big discounts on. Blue Pig is still around though.

There is a new mmmbop coming out. It'll cost £249 and the rear brake caliper will be on the seatstay, not the chainstay. The new colours are still tbc.

Where have you seen this confimred please? I thought the Troof was the 'replacement'

getonyourbike

hoochylala wrote:

getonyourbike wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Mmmbop was discontinued Didn't sell well til they put the big discounts on. Blue Pig is still around though.

There is a new mmmbop coming out. It'll cost £249 and the rear brake caliper will be on the seatstay, not the chainstay. The new colours are still tbc.

Where have you seen this confimred please? I thought the Troof was the 'replacement'

I emailed the designer and owner of Ragley, Brant Richards. The Troof is definitely not the replacement for the mmmbop. It's slacker, heavier, and optimised for 150-170mm forks, instead of 130-150mm forks.

hoochylala

I see, I thought that there would of been something mentioned at thier Hotlines show.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2011/03 ... ow-ragley/

If a new mmmBop is going to cost the same as the original did, then arnt they going to run into the same problem as before? The mmmBop only start selling in numbers when they dropped the price on CRC etc AFAIK... even I bought one!

Also think saw brant comment on a STW thread that the hardtail range wasen't going to be overhauled until sept 2012 ish, so it would suprise me to see a new mmmBop soon. (although I suppose that not that far away)

getonyourbike

I think that the CRC sale and lots of people buying them has now got thema good reputation and now more people will be prepared to buy them at full price. As this thread shows.

hoochylala

Some additional info here;

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/t ... new-mmmbop

brant@shedfire

When comparing the 456 to the Blue Pig you've got to remember this - they were designed by the same man, to do the same job. How many differences can there really be?

About seven years.

Sodfoster

brant@shedfire wrote:

When comparing the 456 to the Blue Pig you've got to remember this - they were designed by the same man, to do the same job. How many differences can there really be?

About seven years.

So Brant what has changed in those seven years? Are you saying the 456 has never been updated??

brant@shedfire

So Brant what has changed in those seven years?

Forks, tyres, bar width, riding styles. Places to ride.

Lots.

And as a designer, I've spent a lot more time riding long travel hardtails.

The Blue Pig, geometrically, is a long way from the 456. Steeper seat, lower BB. Then there's the frame fittings, details.

Are you saying the 456 has never been updated??

I'd say that on-one making it in carbon is quite a big update :-)
Geometrically, I don't know.

I did a few tubing revisions whilst I was there, but I've been gone over two years now.

brant@shedfire

So Brant what has changed in those seven years?

Forks, tyres, bar width, riding styles. Places to ride.

Lots.

And as a designer, I've spent a lot more time riding long travel hardtails.

The Blue Pig, geometrically, is a long way from the 456. Steeper seat, lower BB. Then there's the frame fittings, details.

Are you saying the 456 has never been updated??

I'd say that on-one making it in carbon is quite a big update :-)
Geometrically, I don't know.

I did a few tubing revisions whilst I was there, but I've been gone over two years now.

brant@shedfire

So Brant what has changed in those seven years?

Forks, tyres, bar width, riding styles. Places to ride.

Lots.

And as a designer, I've spent a lot more time riding long travel hardtails.

The Blue Pig, geometrically, is a long way from the 456. Steeper seat, lower BB. Then there's the frame fittings, details.

Are you saying the 456 has never been updated??

I'd say that on-one making it in carbon is quite a big update :-)
Geometrically, I don't know.

I did a few tubing revisions whilst I was there, but I've been gone over two years now.

Sodfoster

Hey Brant,

Thanks for getting back to me, its good to actually speak to the guys who design the frames.

brant@shedfire wrote:

The Blue Pig, geometrically, is a long way from the 456. Steeper seat, lower BB. Then there's the frame fittings, details.

What was the thinking behind having a lower BB and steeper seat (if you dont mind me asking)?

Is the mmm bop more similar to the 456?

Basically I have fancied a Ragley for a awhile and decided I would like to take the plunge and build a bike. I would like a Ragley but I saw the price of the 456 and wondered whether the additional £80-£100 would be better placed on parts etc...... I guess its the perennial on why buy any frame :?

Northwind

Sodfoster wrote:

Is the mmm bop more similar to the 456?

Even less- it has the same geometry as the Pig but is aluminium as well so nothing in common with the 456 really.

brant@shedfire

What was the thinking behind having a lower BB and steeper seat (if you dont mind me asking)?

Climbs better (weight further forward), descends better (weight lower).

Sodfoster

Climbs better (weight further forward), descends better (weight lower).

Doh never even thought about the BB position being better for going down hill. I was initially going to fit a 120mm fork (regardless of which frame I get) dade due to having a spare air fork. However, would you say the mmm bop and the blue pig are better suited to a 140mm fork (which I would upgrade to eventually)?

btw when is the new mmm bop out? and any idea of price??

Cheers

getonyourbike

It'll cost £249. Don't have a clue about time