Libya
Comments
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The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:Israels neighbours have been systematically trying to wipe out Israel for decades. After the Holocaust I think all gloves are off are far as the founding and maintaining of Israel.
The holocaust has no place in this discussion IMHO.
The fact is that Israel occupies land that doesn't belong to it. We're to blame for that.
No, I think you are wrong about the Holocaust. Israel's character was defined by what happened to the European jews and they will never back down or kowtow because of it. Thats why Syria and Egypt have both been defeated by Israel. the holocaust has everything to do with today's Israel.0 -
dmclite wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:Israels neighbours have been systematically trying to wipe out Israel for decades. After the Holocaust I think all gloves are off are far as the founding and maintaining of Israel.
The holocaust has no place in this discussion IMHO.
The fact is that Israel occupies land that doesn't belong to it. We're to blame for that.
No, I think you are wrong about the Holocaust. Israel's character was defined by what happened to the European jews and they will never back down or kowtow because of it. Thats why Syria and Egypt have both been defeated by Israel. the holocaust has everything to do with today's Israel.
I don't think I am wrong. I said the Holocaust had nothing to do with this discussion. Not that it didn't have anything to do with Israel.
Besides which, there's a difference between not backing down and behaving as badly as the Israelis do towards the Palestinians. In many ways, their behaviour towards the Palestinians mirrors the way the Jews were treated by the Germans.
The Holocaust was horrendous, however, don't think for one second that it's acceptable for the Jews to hide behind it as justification for treating those around them in a sub-human way. They are the bullies of the Middle East.0 -
dmclite wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:Israels neighbours have been systematically trying to wipe out Israel for decades. After the Holocaust I think all gloves are off are far as the founding and maintaining of Israel.
The holocaust has no place in this discussion IMHO.
The fact is that Israel occupies land that doesn't belong to it. We're to blame for that.
No, I think you are wrong about the Holocaust. Israel's character was defined by what happened to the European jews and they will never back down or kowtow because of it. Thats why Syria and Egypt have both been defeated by Israel. the holocaust has everything to do with today's Israel.
Sparta should be a warning from history for anyone who thinks that a small nation can stay unbeatable in war.
IMO Israel should have been created in land taken from Germany (along with a home for the Roma). They were the ones who were putting the Jews into gas showers, they should have been the ones punished, preferably by taking regions where support for the Nazis was highest.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:Israels neighbours have been systematically trying to wipe out Israel for decades. After the Holocaust I think all gloves are off are far as the founding and maintaining of Israel.
The holocaust has no place in this discussion IMHO.
The fact is that Israel occupies land that doesn't belong to it. We're to blame for that.
Ah the 'who owns the land' debate. How long has everyone got?0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:Israels neighbours have been systematically trying to wipe out Israel for decades. After the Holocaust I think all gloves are off are far as the founding and maintaining of Israel.
The holocaust has no place in this discussion IMHO.
The fact is that Israel occupies land that doesn't belong to it. We're to blame for that.
No, I think you are wrong about the Holocaust. Israel's character was defined by what happened to the European jews and they will never back down or kowtow because of it. Thats why Syria and Egypt have both been defeated by Israel. the holocaust has everything to do with today's Israel.
I don't think I am wrong. I said the Holocaust had nothing to do with this discussion. Not that it didn't have anything to do with Israel.
Besides which, there's a difference between not backing down and behaving as badly as the Israelis do towards the Palestinians. In many ways, their behaviour towards the Palestinians mirrors the way the Jews were treated by the Germans.
The Holocaust was horrendous, however, don't think for one second that it's acceptable for the Jews to hide behind it as justification for treating those around them in a sub-human way. They are the bullies of the Middle East.
There are quite a few denominations living in Israel. Do I detect some slight anti-semitism, or am I wrong ?0 -
dmclite wrote:There are quite a few denominations living in Israel. Do I detect some slight anti-semitism, or am I wrong ?
With respect, you are wrong. It's pretty cheap to accuse someone of being an anti-Semite if they are openly critical of the behaviour of the Israeli Government don't you think? If I were to openly criticise US foreign policy, would that make me anti-American?
I have worked with the Israeli military in the past (I am ex-military myself), and certainly the men and women I worked with were ordinary decent people. They do what they are told, in exactly the same way I did what I was told. The fault isn't with them, but the people at the top. I am intelligent enough to form the position that you can be critical of the actions of the Government of a country, without extending that criticism to every member of that country.
And I stand by my position.0 -
As I recall history and theology, Judaism is THE oldest religion. The occupation of the land was already in state when Saladin and his rebels came along following a religion invented many centuries after Judaism and wiped out the Jews living in and around the site of King Soloman's Temple. Hence Richard the Lionheart and the Cursades ala the Templer Knights fighting Saladin and his armies to protect the right of Jews and Christians to occuppy the scared land. Since then, Islam has decided it's birthpalce is on the same spot of King Soloman's Temple and it is the right of Islam to occupy the sacred land. The post war bombing of the King David hotel during British occupation was the catalyst that lead to land that the Palastinians decided they didn't want, being given to the Israelis. Now the Israelis have made a go of that land and prospered, the Palastinians want it back and the anti jew faiths have teamed up to support the Palastinians. When you consider this is all about mythologil rubbish invented by tribal elders to create control over rebelling hordes thousands of years ago, it shows the idiocy of faith groups that are fighting battles over wars no one really knows anything about. Natural hatred is bred into each side making it endemic that they will take up arms against each other.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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The Mad Rapper wrote:dmclite wrote:There are quite a few denominations living in Israel. Do I detect some slight anti-semitism, or am I wrong ?
With respect, you are wrong. It's pretty cheap to accuse someone of being an anti-Semite if they are openly critical of the behaviour of the Israeli Government don't you think? If I were to openly criticise US foreign policy, would that make me anti-American?
I have worked with the Israeli military in the past (I am ex-military myself), and certainly the men and women I worked with were ordinary decent people. They do what they are told, in exactly the same way I did what I was told. The fault isn't with them, but the people at the top. I am intelligent enough to form the position that you can be critical of the actions of the Government of a country, without extending that criticism to every member of that country.
And I stand by my position.
Not cheap at all, just an honest question based upon your posts.
Difference is, Libya seems to be sliding toward civil war, not just revolution. Killing your own people who openly want change is wrong in any arena.0 -
dmclite wrote:Not cheap at all, just an honest question based upon your posts.
Fair enough.Difference is, Libya seems to be sliding toward civil war, not just revolution. Killing your own people who openly want change is wrong in any arena.
Absolutely. There can be no justification. Gaddafi has a case to answer; although whether that occurs at the Hague, or at the end of a rope wielded by a baying crowd remains to be seen.0 -
He'll reappear soon as Gene Simmons and Kiss will be doing another shopping mall tour soon.
I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Off topic but in that image you can see where his wig is taped on by his right ear. The blokes got less hair than I have allegedly.
And the man himself:
I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
:roll:The Mad Rapper wrote:end of0 -
dilemna wrote:Gadaffi could always see out his days in Scotland ................
The best way out of this situation is for Gadaffi to be given safe haven in another country. It may not be 'justice' or what the West would want to see happen by would avoid a lot of bloodshed.
Probably not Scotland though“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
bompington wrote:
:roll:The Mad Rapper wrote:end of
Am I wrong? :roll:0 -
The occupation of the land was already in state when Saladin and his rebels came along following a religion invented many centuries after Judaism and wiped out the Jews living in and around the site of King Soloman's Temple. Hence Richard the Lionheart and the Cursades ala the Templer Knights fighting Saladin and his armies to protect the right of Jews and Christians to occuppy the scared land.
This is so funny....1096 - Participants in the First Crusade massacre Jews in several Central European cities, beginning centuries of pogroms linked to the Crusades.
1096 - More than 5,000 Jews were murdered in Germany in several different attacks.
May 3, 1096 Count Emico of Leiningen, on his way to join a Crusade, attacked the synagogue at Speyers and killed all the defenders.
May 27, 1096 1,200 Jews commit suicide in Mayence to escape Count Emico, who tried to forcibly convert them.
1099 - Crusaders (European Christians) capture Jerusalem and massacre tens of thousands of the city's Jews.
....1171 - Saladin (1138-1193) overthrows Fatimid dynasty in Egypt
1187 - Saladin recaptures Jerusalem from Crusaders grants Jews permission to re-enter...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... etime.html
Quite what this has to do with Qaddafi, I'm not sure....0 -
Yes, you must have known that an inflammatory statement like that was never going to be the "end of" anythingThe Mad Rapper wrote:bompington wrote:
:roll:The Mad Rapper wrote:end of
Am I wrong? :roll:
As for the statement itself, surely it's a bit of an insult to the 98% of Americans who aren't Jewish? You may argue that Jews have a disproportionately high influence in the US, but the bald stement "Jews rule the US" sounds like something out of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to me0 -
Just for the record Judaism is not the oldest religion and the first settlers in the region were not Jewish. Other older cultures and religions predate Judaism by quite a few thousand years.
back to the OP, I can't see Gaddfi every standing down. he is appears ro be far too desulional for that. saying that he can surprise so he might.0 -
History Timeline of World Religions and its Founders
2,085 BC. Judaism-Abraham
1,500 BC. Hinduism- no specific founder
560 BC. Buddhism- Gautama Buddha
550 BC. Taoism - Lao Tzu
599 BC. Jainism, Mahavira
30 AD. Christianity –Jesus Christ
50-100 AD. Gnosticism-
150-250 AD. -Modalism (Monarchianism)–Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Paul of Samosata
325 AD. -After being persecuted for almost 200 years Constantine made the Church becomes a legal religion, compromise begins to enter.
590 AD.-Roman Catholicism- Developed after Constantine; Pope Gregory?
610 AD.- Islam- Mohammed
1400 AD.- Rosicrucians-Christian Rosenkreuz (1694 US) Rosicrucians- Master Kelpius, Johann Andrea
1515 AD.- Protestantism- (Reformers) Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin
1650 AD.- Tibetan Buddhism-Dalai Lama
1700 AD.- Freemasony- Albert Mackey, Albert Pike
1760 AD.-Swedenborgism- Emmanuel Swedenborg
1784 AD.- Shakers - Mother Ann Lee
1830 AD.- Mormonism – Joseph Smith
1830 AD.-Cambellites-Alexander & Thomas Cambell, Barton Stone
1838 AD.-Tenrikyo- Miki Maegawa Nakayama
1844 AD.-Christadelphians- John Thomas
1840-45 AD.-Millerites 2nd day Adventists –William Miller then became 7th Day Adventists
1844 AD.-Bahai- Baha'u'llah (Abul Baha)
1845-1870AD.- 7th Day Adventists-E.G. White
1848 AD.-Spiritualism - Kate and Margaret Fox
1870 AD.-Jehovah's Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell
1875 AD.-Theosophical Society- H.P. Blavatsky, Henry Olcott
1879 AD.-Christian Science-Mary Baker Eddy
1889-1924 AD.-Unity School of Christianity- Myrtle Fillmore
1900 AD.-Rosicrucian Fellowship-Max Heindel
1902 AD.- Anthroposophical Society –Rudolf Steiner
1906 AD. -The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
1914 AD.- Iglesia ni Cristo- Felix Manalo
1914 AD.- Oneness Pentecostalism- Frank Ewart, G.T.Haywood, Glenn Cook
1917 AD.-True Jesus Church. Founders Paul Wei, Lingsheng Chang and Barnabas Chang
1930 AD. -Black Muslims (Nation of Islam) –Wallace D. Fard
1927 AD.- Mind Science- Ernest Holmes
1934 AD.-World Wide Church of God- Herbert W. Armstrong
1935 AD.-Self Realization Fellowship- Paramahansa Yogananda
1954 AD.- Unification Church- Sun Myung Moon
1945 AD. -The Way -Victor P.Wierwille
1948 AD.- Latter Rain –Franklin Hall, George Warnock.
1964 AD.- Eckankar The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (Eck). Founded by Paul Twitchell
1968 AD.- Hare Krishna (US)- Swami Prabhupada
1968 AD.- Children of God- David (Moses) Berg
1945 AD.-United Pentecostal International- Howard Goss, W.T. Witherspoon (can be traced back to 1914)
1944 AD.- Silva Mind Control –Jose Silva
1950 AD.-Urantia Book- Dr. Bill Sadler
1950 AD.-Lafayette Ronald Hubbard published his book Dianetics-SCIENTOLOGY
1954 AD.-Atherius Society (UFO’s)- Dr. George King
1955 AD.- Scientology- L. Ron Hubbard
1958 AD.- Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research- Henry Kinley
1958-1970 AD.- Church Universal and Triumphant –Mark and E.C. Prophet
1958 AD. -Henry Kinley begins (IDMR) the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research
1959 AD.-Unitariarian Universalist
1960 AD.-Transcendental meditation- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
1960 AD.-Enkankar- Paul Twitchell
1961 AD.- Unitarian Universalism was officially formed.
1965 AD.-Assembly of Yahweh-Jacob Meyer
1966 AD.- Church of Satan –Anton LaVey
1970 AD.-Findhorn Community –Peter and Eileen Caddy –David Spangler
1970 AD.- Divine light Mission- Guru Maharaj Ji
1973 AD.- CARP was established in the United States. [The Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles] to introduce the teachings of un Myung Moon.
1974 AD.-Assemblies of Yahweh-Sam Suratt
1979 AD.-Church of Christ International - Kip McKean
1980 -1982 AD.- Tara Center-Benjamen Crème
1980 AD.- House of Yahweh (Abilene) Jacob HawkinsI ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Gaddafi won't get asylum in any foreign country. It would leave that nation exposed to a lifetime of terror attacks in an effort to seek his repatriation for war crimes or because he was from the wrong tribe.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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philthy3 Where did you get that list from?0
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http://www.letusreason.org/default.htmplankton wrote:philthy3 Where did you get that list from?
It's from a stereotypical US bible-bashing Christian "webevangelist" website. I'm sure it all makes perfect sense - to the author.0 -
It makes perfect sense as it is historically accurate.Smarter than the average bear.0
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If you Google Canaan, which is the ancient name for the area about modern Israel, you will find lots of people inhabited it before the Jews.The Jewish holy book, the Torah, which itself forms part of the Christian Old Testament, itself says that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of Israel, and that God "gave" it to the Jews. Now if Muslims come along later and say Allah "gave" it to them, I see an equivalency.philthy3 wrote:As I recall history and theology, Judaism is THE oldest religion. The occupation of the land
was already in state when Saladin and his rebels came along following a religion invented many centuries
after Judaism and wiped out the Jews living in and around the site of King Soloman's Temple. Hence
Richard the Lionheart and the Cursades ala the Templer Knights fighting Saladin and his armies to protect
the right of Jews and Christians to occuppy the scared land. Since then, Islam has decided it's birthpalce is
on the same spot of King Soloman's Temple and it is the right of Islam to occupy the sacred land...
Muslims see the Torah/Old Testament as no less relevent to their religion as the Torah/Old Testament is to Christians - Muslims consider they are all the word of the same God. Every Muslim child is familiar with the stories of Adam & Eve, Abraham, Moses, etc. The Muslim viewpoint is that Jews and Christians simply didn't get the last memo from Him.0 -
The Jewish people can probably trace their history to before 2000BC, but their present religion, Judaism, is not quite as old. Before Judaism, the Jews were monotheistic but their religion was not recognizably "Judaism".antfly wrote:It makes perfect sense as it is historically accurate.
From Wikipedia:
"The term Torah ... refers to the Five Books of Moses—the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts."
"According to Jewish tradition the Torah was revealed to Moses in 1312 BCE at Mount Sinai..."0 -
Also to clarify,
There is enough scientific evidence to show that religious activity has taken place as far back as 223,000 - 100,000 BC. Stonehenge is dated arround 8000 BCE . Written text has been arround for about 5000 years in some cultures, all of which include religious descriptions.
These are based on scientific study, not mythology or religious dogma.0 -
This is all beside the point. It doesn't matter which is the oldest religion..
As an aside, the anti-regime demonstrations across the middle east put a big dent in the argument that, somehow, Islam can't fundamentally function alongside a democracy. Part of me wonders how people like Gert Wilders are justifying their rhetoric in light of this.0 -
plankton wrote:Also to clarify,
There is enough scientific evidence to show that religious activity has taken place as far back as 223,000 - 100,000 BC. Stonehenge is dated arround 8000 BCE . Written text has been arround for about 5000 years in some cultures, all of which include religious descriptions.
These are based on scientific study, not mythology or religious dogma.
Science can't prove religious activity in the past.
Science can help point an archeologist in a paticular direction with regard to the interpretation of stuff s/he finds.0 -
It makes perfect sense as it is historically accurate.
Hmm..Judaism is dated by the lifetime of Abraham... Not exactly historic accuracy regarding organised religion.
Worth a read: http://www.amazon.com/Abraham-Journey-H ... 03809777610 -
Science can't prove religious activity in the past.
Science can help point an archeologist in a paticular direction with regard to the interpretation of stuff s/he finds.
Science can date archaeological finds and so give a good idea of when something happened but motives can't be 100% accurate. this is true of events happening now. Written text don't prove anything by themselves either, ony that things were written.
I was pointing out that the time line offered as fact is not and there is enough evidence to suggest otherwise.0
