Time trial pacing tips required

maryka

For the reasons that Jeff mentioned above -- notably that you hardly feel an over-effort in the first quarter of a TT -- you really should go off at the start of a TT of any distance* feeling like you're slightly holding back (for that distance, which is the important part. obviously holding back slightly in a 10 feels different to holding back slightly in a 50!)

2nd quarter you've now settled in and are riding at your target watts/HR/PE or whatever you use.

Where you need to focus on keeping the pace good and hard and steady is the 3rd quarter where most people really start to hurt and lose most of their (relative) time/power. This is the most mentally difficult section of the race, whatever the distance. And it doesn't seem to matter the distance either, because if it's shorter it lasts less time but hurts more...

Final quarter is where you let loose with whatever you have left. Mentally this is easier as you know the end is in sight. This will help kick in a physical response if you haven't overcooked it to that point, as your brain allows your body to deplete itself knowing it's so close to the end.

If you're lucky like I am, you have a built-in pacer or PE-generator for every distance -- can't really describe it, but I just have a good sense of how long something will last and therefore how to sit on that edge of blowing up for that length of time. Downside is that in an unknown situation (e.g., a climb in a race that I haven't recc'ed) I tend to conserve too much. If you're not like me, then all the more need to dial in these different PEs for different distances.

Joe Friel, who I generally don't agree with on a lot of things, has written a good blog on pacing TTs. I wrote one too with power data on a 50 miler I did.

* any road distance... not sure how it works on the track but I would think that a very short race like a kilo or ind pursuti requires so much effort to get up to speed initially that the 1st quarter is bound to look "overcooked" on paper afterwards.

Pokerface

maryka wrote:

For the reasons that Jeff mentioned above -- notably that you hardly feel an over-effort in the first quarter of a TT -- you really should go off at the start of a TT of any distance* feeling like you're slightly holding back (for that distance, which is the important part. obviously holding back slightly in a 10 feels different to holding back slightly in a 50!)

2nd quarter you've now settled in and are riding at your target watts/HR/PE or whatever you use.

Where you need to focus on keeping the pace good and hard and steady is the 3rd quarter where most people really start to hurt and lose most of their (relative) time/power. This is the most mentally difficult section of the race, whatever the distance. And it doesn't seem to matter the distance either, because if it's shorter it lasts less time but hurts more...

Final quarter is where you let loose with whatever you have left. Mentally this is easier as you know the end is in sight. This will help kick in a physical response if you haven't overcooked it to that point, as your brain allows your body to deplete itself knowing it's so close to the end.

If you're lucky like I am, you have a built-in pacer or PE-generator for every distance -- can't really describe it, but I just have a good sense of how long something will last and therefore how to sit on that edge of blowing up for that length of time. Downside is that in an unknown situation (e.g., a climb in a race that I haven't recc'ed) I tend to conserve too much. If you're not like me, then all the more need to dial in these different PEs for different distances.

Joe Friel, who I generally don't agree with on a lot of things, has written a good blog on pacing TTs. I wrote one too with power data on a 50 miler I did.

* any road distance... not sure how it works on the track but I would think that a very short race like a kilo or ind pursuti requires so much effort to get up to speed initially that the 1st quarter is bound to look "overcooked" on paper afterwards.

What you wrote is pretty much bang on for the track pursuit also. It's all about 'holding back' on the early part of the effort, settling in, digging deep and then bringing it home.

In the kilo - not as much. It's more about going balls out and just trying to hang on.

Team Banana Spokesman

Jeff Jones telling it like it is.
my experiences summarized below. Agree?



where I always go wrong:

OptimalCycling

BeaconRuth wrote:

SBezza wrote:

The fast guys............ try and keep an even power profile for the duration of the event.

I don't think this is strictly true. The really fast guys and girls have modelled the course gradients mathematically to make the most of the squared relationship between speed and power - which would lead you to use slightly more power on the ups than on the downs.

But for those of us who are mortal, concentrating on not going too hard on the ups and hammering it on the downs is a very good idea because our natural instincts are always to go far too hard on the ups and far too easy on the downs.

Ruth

I just released an open source time trial power pacing optimization tool last week that does just that:





It's the most advanced tool of its kind available and can take into account the terrain, wind, accelerations, weight, drag, power restrictions, etc.... You can read in depth details about it and grab a copy from my website at http://www.optimalcycling.com

Note that it is currently a command line tool, a graphical user interface and more documentation on how to use it are in the works.

joeyhalloran

have you got an estimate for when the work on the GUI will be done? I must confess I am not clever enough to run it off the command line, but I am very interested in the program.

OptimalCycling

JoeyHalloran wrote:

have you got an estimate for when the work on the GUI will be done? I must confess I am not clever enough to run it off the command line, but I am very interested in the program.

I don't have a firm date on when I will release a GUI for it. I have made a GUI for Optimal Cycling in some of my private builds, but I wasn't satisfied with the look and coding so I removed it for the time being. However, what I'm thinking of doing right now is to release a simple GUI that will just let you drag and drop the power pacing simulation folders onto the program and then it would run it for you. You would still need to use a spreadsheet to edit the simulation files and view the results, though.

But, I recommend that you try the step by step tutorial at http://optimalcycling.com/power-pacing/getting-started/ that will show you how to run it from the command line.

In the mean time, if you have some power pacing simulations that you want to do, you could send me an e-mail with the Microsoft Excel/KML/TCX/GPX course file, your critical/maximal power curve, weight, and CDA. I will estimate the other variables as needed. You can find my e-mail at: http://optimalcycling.com/contact/

Matt the Tester

a_n_t wrote:

A perfect 10?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/48182083


Well yeah I could go quicker but it terms of pacing it was spot on!

completely agree. fantastic time btw

also that course is about 30 mins from my house lol! is that rainford ?

borisface

Its intriguing that everyone thinks that they pace poorly in TTs. If you ride an event with results giving the midway split its pretty rare that you see much evidence of people blowing up as dramatically as we all think. In the vast majority of cases, the bloke quickest to the turn wins the event, the bloke 30th fastest to the turn ends up 30th and so on. So we're all either right in that we pace badly or we're all wrong and are pacing more or less right. I suspect the latter rather than the former.

Just because ave power may be lower for the 2nd half of a TT great doesn't mean a great deal unless its way out, like 50 watts or something. The effects of external forces such as wind / downhill / uphill / traffic / body position as well as internal forces such as dehydration / fatigue influence the power that we can put out. Depending on the course, it may be that an optimal pacing strategy might be to go out at say 5% over ftp for the first half and 5% below ftp for the second half. But as I suggest there's no magic bullet or universal answer. A good rule of thumb seems to be to start slow and build.

a_n_t

yeah, D10/1 Rainford bypass. Pretty quick in the right conditions!

steady rider wrote:

a_n_t wrote:

A perfect 10?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/48182083


Well yeah I could go quicker but it terms of pacing it was spot on!

completely agree. fantastic time btw

also that course is about 30 mins from my house lol! is that rainford ?

GiantMike

BeaconRuth wrote:

The really fast guys and girls have modelled the course gradients mathematically to make the most of the squared relationship between speed and power - which would lead you to use slightly more power on the ups than on the downs.

Yes, but if you read the studies the variation is very small, and not something you would be able to determine with any accuracy without a power meter.

To the OP, on the Garmin Connect data you'll notice how the HR data shows a slow rise at the start and then a steady rise throughout the entire effort. This is normal. You'll also notice that that speed at the start is very high, i.e. out of proportion to the HR. This is why HR is a poor guide to effort.

This is why TTs are so difficult to get right. You wait all week for the TT and then you get all excited on the start line, then you blow it in the first mile by going too hard. You know this, so make a mental note to go easier at the start. You should also be doing a couple of short max effort warm-ups to prepare your body for the huge effort it's about to produce.

Good luck with your next TT.

danowat

Thanks for all the feedback, my next (first of 2011) open TT is on 5th March, so I am hoping to capitalize on all the info herein

curium

a_n_t wrote:

A perfect 10?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/48182083


Well yeah I could go quicker but it terms of pacing it was spot on!

Can I just say it is fascinating to see other people's Garmin data. I have a Garmin so collect similar data but am unable to compare since I don't belong to a club and just do commutes to work and Sunday sportives.

I'm really fascinated that you manage to maintain a cadence of around 100rpm even up hills. I've always try to maintain a steady cadence, changing down gears if necessary.

The average speed of 26.3 mph, compared to my 16.7mph, confirms that I really need to ride regularly this spring instead of the odd Sunday!

a_n_t

curium wrote:

[
I'm really fascinated that you manage to maintain a cadence of around 100rpm even up hills. I've always try to maintain a steady cadence, changing down gears if necessary.

The average speed of 26.3 mph, compared to my 16.7mph, confirms that I really need to ride regularly this spring instead of the odd Sunday!

well to be fair it was a flat TT course and as for speed, depressingly it's pretty average for a 10 mile TT!

danowat

First open of the year done, eased into it, felt great all the way round, infact it felt so good I was suprised at actually how high my HR was after I checked the data after the ride.

So the pacing was a success, course wasn't easy, 3 sharp turns, plus a head wind on 3 on the legs, so I was fairly happy with a 26:22

Thanks for the advice, it really helped, onwards and upwards!!

Garmin data below........

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/71367264

hopper1

danowat wrote:

First open of the year done, eased into it, felt great all the way round, infact it felt so good I was suprised at actually how high my HR was after I checked the data after the ride.

So the pacing was a success, course wasn't easy, 3 sharp turns, plus a head wind on 3 on the legs, so I was fairly happy with a 26:22

Thanks for the advice, it really helped, onwards and upwards!!

Garmin data below........

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/71367264

Well done, Dan, that was a good result for today. I wish I could say the same for myself!...

danowat

hopper1 wrote:

danowat wrote:

First open of the year done, eased into it, felt great all the way round, infact it felt so good I was suprised at actually how high my HR was after I checked the data after the ride.

So the pacing was a success, course wasn't easy, 3 sharp turns, plus a head wind on 3 on the legs, so I was fairly happy with a 26:22

Thanks for the advice, it really helped, onwards and upwards!!

Garmin data below........

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/71367264

Well done, Dan, that was a good result for today. I wish I could say the same for myself!...

Yeah, was suprised to see the results sheet, 13th out of 38 finishers!!!

Wasn't an easy ride, what with the slipperly surface, tight corners and wind, there were quite a few people who punctured on course too.

markos1963

Well done Dan, good time for so early in the season. What's your target time for the year btw?

danowat

For a 10, I'd be happy with a 25:xx (our club bronze standard), and over the moon with a 24:xx!!! (24:30 is silver standard)

Got my first 25 this weekend, so that will be interesting

markos1963

danowat wrote:

For a 10, I'd be happy with a 25:xx (our club bronze standard), and over the moon with a 24:xx!!! (24:30 is silver standard)

Got my first 25 this weekend, so that will be interesting

I hit bronze last year(2010) so silver is the one for for me this year plus like you I'm aiming to step up to 25's

SteveR_100Milers

Here's a top tip - when rebuilding your TT bike, do more than simply ride it on the turbo at 7/10 and believe it will work fine on a windy DC on a sunday morning in March.It didn't, and the pain in my bits is testament to an incorrectly set up saddle, and te clock brutally showed my inability to stay in the tuck for more than 3-4 minutes at a time...apart from that PLF!

peejay78

PLF was my pacing strategy this afternoon.

Hilly TT started on a hill, which threw everything out, went off too hard, then just carried on. seemed to work well in the end.

danowat

Getting there, starting easy(ish) and building is certainly key for me, also, attacking hills and headwinds, and slightly "recovering" (only very slightly mind) on downwind and downhills seemed to work today.

New pb of 24:47

markos1963

danowat wrote:

Getting there, starting easy(ish) and building is certainly key for me, also, attacking hills and headwinds, and slightly "recovering" (only very slightly mind) on downwind and downhills seemed to work today.

New pb of 24:47

Wow Dan, that's a great improvement. Where did you do it? Wasn't aware of any TT's yesterday, would have had a go myself as I need to get cracking with some 10's

danowat

Wisbech Wheelers on the B10/2, was a good course, conditions weren't bad either.

Results > http://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/Default.aspx?&ge482__geka=MoeMaZhZdmGPSYuQ8onYwr5VtT1MpzEe2fhLDMJ2raIcqkycJrweT-tOSegOH8lwqaoWoz-0e3kR_k3sh5PlIQ&ge482__gevi=bkosVTEcmXX5ekdECVvBmA&gv484__gvac=2&gv484__gvff0=55843&gv484__gvfl0=0&language=en-GB&tabid=109

Stats > http://connect.garmin.com/activity/74060377

danowat

new pb, by a massive 3 seconds!!, now 24:43.

Was on the E2/10, a nice fast course, although the return headwind was tough.

markos1963

danowat wrote:

new pb, by a massive 3 seconds!!, now 24:43.

Was on the E2/10, a nice fast course, although the return headwind was tough.

Was that at Horsford Dan? Was going to do that one but couldn't get out of work.

joeyhalloran

danowat wrote:

new pb, by a massive 3 seconds!!, now 24:43.

Was on the E2/10, a nice fast course, although the return headwind was tough.

but in those conditions a PB is very good going! I am sure you will smash that PB again soon!

danowat

markos1963 wrote:

danowat wrote:

new pb, by a massive 3 seconds!!, now 24:43.

Was on the E2/10, a nice fast course, although the return headwind was tough.

Was that at Horsford Dan? Was going to do that one but couldn't get out of work.

No, Horsford was on the Sunday, It was the ECCA 10 on Saturday afternoon I did, on the A14 near Newmarket.

but in those conditions a PB is very good going! I am sure you will smash that PB again soon!

Indeed, without that headwind on the return, I reckon I'd have been on for a 23 at least

Doing the Lea Valley 25 on the same course on the 9th (and the VCN25 on the A11 on the 17th), so hopefully I can get close to 1hr for a 25

peejay78

good returns.

i'm hoping to PB this year, so have opted to aim for a fast course. that means i'll probably never reach it again, because i prefer sporting or lumpy courses, but it also means i might get some more consistent seedings in events that aren't out-and-out hillclimbs.

donkykong

To get a good result in a time trial, say a 10 mile tt.

How i personally go about it is to eat a medium size high carb salad 3hrs before event,

turn up at the event with an hour or or so to spare, sipping water all the time to stay hydrated, get changed and take a gentle ride for 30 mins get back to start or hq sign on pay up,

then with your start time in mind go out on a medium paced warm up ride with 1 big effort to raise the heart rate, aiming to arrive back at the start line 2 minutes before your start time, by doing this you get rid of most of the high jinks and you make sure you do not start fast.

ok, 5,4,3,2,1 ure off, just take it really steady for the first mile aim for 3-4 mins for mile 1, build up to full steam by this time ure minute man may have come storming past you, but you havent reached your peak yet whilst he,s about to pop, i,ve seen it loads of times, and i,m a regular 20 to 21 minute man and i don,t use a computer or heart monitor, i ride on feel,

after mile 5 you,ll be thanking me and feeling strong now, mile, 6,7,8,. the finish line is up the road, go for it as hard as you can, great you,ve done it, it's important to remember though dont start fast - youll blow up, and when you finish if you don't feel as though your'e going to vomit and your legs are on fire then you haven,t tried hard enough.

it works for me, and its just my opinion and its worth exactly what you paid for it.

have a good ride and enjoy it.