Helmets worth the weight in gold

popstar

Daz555 wrote:

. Pottering about on my bike is just one of them - and not the riskiest either. I care not if people wear helmets or not. What I do care about is helmet mafia on both sides of the debate - please just leave us all alone.

Do us a favour, coments like that are not encouraged when cycling down the local on public roads nearly killed my riding buddie. He was knocked off by stolen car on a run, just 5 yards away from home. He was crashed between 2 cars, Toyota's Rav (stolen car) front bumper and Octavias rear end. His helmet took impact from bumper n suspension bushes. Helmet was in dust, while he is alive with various injuries.
However you are entitled to your own opinion on helmet use*

Helmet Mafia = FTW.

Northwind wrote:

I don't think the POC Bones have neoprene in them, they're the best elbow guards I've found but they do make you look like a wee bit of a stormtrooper Far more comfy than enclosing soft pads, you'd think hard pads would be worse for all day wear than soft ones but they stay in place so well that they don't need tight straps or full enclosure. Ace.

I've worn 661 veggie elbow pads and they were biggest shoot protection ever. Had few crashes with them and always had scratched bloody elbows. But then I've bought POC Bones, and since then I never looked back. They are really comfy and fit perfect, have a good ventilation too. Had few crashes with them on rock gardens and all is fine. Very pleased.

patchesuk

Back when I picked up by Cowan DS, I remember moving to Herts and discovering Chicksands (when the Northshore was pretty good).

Rode it off and on for a while beofre deciding to upgrade to a Full Face... the debut ride sure me Face planting the planks pretty hard after trying to ride it too fast and sliding off the side.

Only scuffed the helmet but if that had been my face (hit the chin guard first), then that would have most definatley been a broken jaw and a face full of splinters!

Nowadays I only ride with a Full face... and when I do ride XC and hit a fast decent, then I do fell pretty vunerable with just my normal helmet.

cycle monster

I never really understand why these threads get so heated. Some people wear helmets and some don't. Those that have experienced and/or seen bad accidents do, many that haven't don't. Each to his own. We are all different and always will be. Some helmet wearers will be saved buy their lids, some won't fall off. Some non lid wearers will not fall off and save £50 or so and some will have a mishap. Don't be offended by the opinions of others, we are supposed to be different. Life would be intolerably dull otherwise!

Philcho

cycle monster wrote:

I never really understand why these threads get so heated. Some people wear helmets and some don't. Those that have experienced and/or seen bad accidents do, many that haven't don't. Each to his own. We are all different and always will be. Some helmet wearers will be saved buy their lids, some won't fall off. Some non lid wearers will not fall off and save £50 or so and some will have a mishap. Don't be offended by the opinions of others, we are supposed to be different. Life would be intolerably dull otherwise!

Amen!

welshkev

cycle monster wrote:

I never really understand why these threads get so heated. Some people wear helmets and some don't. Those that have experienced and/or seen bad accidents do, many that haven't don't. Each to his own. We are all different and always will be. Some helmet wearers will be saved buy their lids, some won't fall off. Some non lid wearers will not fall off and save £50 or so and some will have a mishap. Don't be offended by the opinions of others, we are supposed to be different. Life would be intolerably dull otherwise!

but it would also be pretty boring if people didn't disagree and argue in threads like this one

t0pc4t

safety aspects aside my Giro Xen looks totally boss, wouldn't be without it.

It's like leathers on a motorbike, I'd wear them riding and I'd look good on the bike with them, I wouldn't wear them to a dinner party as out of context they would not look cool.

jimexbox

If you're not fussed about the risk, however negligible, think about the effect it would have on your family. I've seen it first hand the devastating effect it has on an entire family. You may be blissfully unaware in your brain damaged state to what exactly has happened to you, unfortunately your family will not, and have to live with the consequences. Just a thought.

EnglishChris

Northwind wrote:

EnglishChris wrote:

I think I make make a purchase of those new SixSixOne Kyle Straight elbow pads...:-) the only soft comfy looking pads I can find that aren't made out of neoprene (which I'm allergic to!)... shame they don't seem to do a knee pad equivalent.

Oh, tell me more... I've always thought 661 don't make a Kyle Strait elbow because they know none of their elbow pads are good enough to be put alongside the Kyle Strait knees.

I don't think the POC Bones have neoprene in them, they're the best elbow guards I've found but they do make you look like a wee bit of a stormtrooper Far more comfy than enclosing soft pads, you'd think hard pads would be worse for all day wear than soft ones but they stay in place so well that they don't need tight straps or full enclosure. Ace.

Ahhh....errr...hmm hmmmmm. I may have got that the wrong way around... Its the knee pads I've seen... I was just thinking elbow as I'd been talking about my brother's elbow :?

Bugger. I'll have a look at those POC Bones ones. I have a full set of RaceLites but they're just not comfy enough to wear unless I really think I might need them. I'd much rather find a set that I can wear more often than not...

milfredo

Simple helmet test

Take a 3 pound club hammer while wearing your helmet and hold it 3-5 inches above your head and drop it. It will hurt but you will be fine.

Have a friend repeat with no helmet and see what happens.

Now move to 10 inches and repeat increseing by 5 inches at a time. See who will be standing the longest.

Now find a new friend, change your broken helmet and repeat the test with a 5 pound club hammer.

lasty

milfredo wrote:

Simple helmet test

Take a 3 pound club hammer while wearing your helmet and hold it 3-5 inches above your head and drop it. It will hurt but you will be fine.

Have a friend repeat with no helmet and see what happens.

Now move to 10 inches and repeat increseing by 5 inches at a time. See who will be standing the longest.

Now find a new friend, change your broken helmet and repeat the test with a 5 pound club hammer.

Totally true - even a small impact can cause serious trauma .

bails87

Wasn't there some suggestion (i'm sure by not totally perfect bit of research) that wearing a helmet encourages drivers to pass closer?

I've heard it myself, the gf of a mate said "I hate it when cyclists don't wear helmets, because when I overtake them I feel like I might hurt them, so I have to wait until there's plenty of room". :shock: She's obviously forgetting that cyclists aren't just a brain wrapped in polystyrene, they have squishy arms and legs and spleens too.

I seriously considered not wearing a helmet on my next road ride!

I'd rather be 'not hit whilst not wearing a helmet', than 'run over whilst wearing a helmet'.

meanredspider

bails87 wrote:

Wasn't there some suggestion (i'm sure by not totally perfect bit of research) that wearing a helmet encourages drivers to pass closer?

I've heard it myself, the gf of a mate said "I hate it when cyclists don't wear helmets, because when I overtake them I feel like I might hurt them, so I have to wait until there's plenty of room". :shock: She's obviously forgetting that cyclists aren't just a brain wrapped in polystyrene, they have squishy arms and legs and spleens too.

I seriously considered not wearing a helmet on my next road ride!

I'd rather be 'not hit whilst not wearing a helmet', than 'run over whilst wearing a helmet'.

Perhaps try a helmet that looks like an Afro or "Big American" hair

bails87

meanredspider wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Wasn't there some suggestion (i'm sure by not totally perfect bit of research) that wearing a helmet encourages drivers to pass closer?

I've heard it myself, the gf of a mate said "I hate it when cyclists don't wear helmets, because when I overtake them I feel like I might hurt them, so I have to wait until there's plenty of room". :shock: She's obviously forgetting that cyclists aren't just a brain wrapped in polystyrene, they have squishy arms and legs and spleens too.

I seriously considered not wearing a helmet on my next road ride!

I'd rather be 'not hit whilst not wearing a helmet', than 'run over whilst wearing a helmet'.

Perhaps try a helmet that looks like an Afro or "Big American" hair

I swear the same researcher went out with a long blonde wig on, and that lead to more room too. So I need big woman's hair!

Northwind

Today we went to Innerleithen to do some downhill trails... Took all my body armour and my full face helmet, and I was really glad I did because...

...I was right, it really is a great place to mount your camera.

However I never crashed, so all that expensive foam was a total waste of time.

Daz555

milfredo wrote:

Simple helmet test

Take a 3 pound club hammer while wearing your helmet and hold it 3-5 inches above your head and drop it. It will hurt but you will be fine.

Have a friend repeat with no helmet and see what happens.

Now move to 10 inches and repeat increseing by 5 inches at a time. See who will be standing the longest.

Now find a new friend, change your broken helmet and repeat the test with a 5 pound club hammer.

The natural conclusion from this is that helmet wear whilst doing DIY would be a very good idea. Hard hats are only about a fiver so we have no excuses!

Having said that, in all seriousness, a mate of mine ended up in hospital for a few days after a lump hammer fell on his head from a shelf. Ouch! :shock:

Anonymous

Well, yes it's up to you to wear them. I'm not going to force anyone to wear them, but I can and will strongly recommend them.

I've taken a few knocks that I know would have been serious without a helmet. I've seen a number of other incidents where I'm sure the helmet saved their life. Cooldad earlier being potentially one of them! (at the very least it would have been a hell of a lot more serious).

The same discussion occurs with skiing. Thing is it's mostly about vanity and acceptance. In Europe a lot still don't bother with them because they think it spoils their looks on the slopes. In North America it is far more common and even considered cool if you have the right kind of lid. In fact it's the boarders in their grungy baggy gear who wear them more than the stylish skiers. Personally I think it's daft to risk your life just because of your appearance, especially when you can get some decent looking lids these days for bikes and snow.

A friend of mine skiing smashed the back of his helmet on a block of ice. He had brain fluid coming out of his nose as a result, but other than feeling dizzy, he survived. That said I also saw a guy last year being attended to by a large group of paramedics, air ambulance and a large pool of blood on the snow, and later found out he had been wearing a helmet and had crashed into a tree. He died.

So yes they don't always save lives, but should you not bother wearing one just because there are ways to kill yourself regardless of a helmet?

But despite my recommendation it is really up to you. If you want to take the risk, fair enough. Just don't come complaining that we should have laws to enforce helmet wearing when you end up with a serious head injury.

miss notax

lasty wrote:

Totally true - even a small impact can cause serious trauma .

Had a bit of a nasty off on Weds nigh, on a descent that I have ridden hundreds of times. Quite icy and hit some roots at the wrong angle and *bash* :? Didn't think too much of it at the time, but a happy 5 hours spent at A&E last night (24 hours after the crash my head was feeling REALLY odd), and given the size of the bruise etc WITH a helmet, I dread to think what it would have been like without :shock:

My head still feels like it's being squeezed in a vice today (and looks like it too)

Gazlar

I know theres a choice, but what about the poor sod that finds you on the trail with your head split in two because you weren't wearing a helmet? I'm not going to stand and hold a gun to anyone's head to make them wear a lid , but i'd always advocate it

The worst I've ever done is ridden without my knee and shin guards, just the once as it was just a gentle leisure ride, 1 pedal sllammed into the shin later and voila, cracked tibia

Lapierre t 400

the choice is very simple
proper riding :Helmet
riding into work 10mins down the road:no helmet unless thers fog or snow
at work:helmet
using chainsaw :just toecaps

cooldad

deadkenny wrote:

I've taken a few knocks that I know would have been serious without a helmet. I've seen a number of other incidents where I'm sure the helmet saved their life. Cooldad earlier being potentially one of them! (at the very least it would have been a hell of a lot more serious).

Having a thick skull probably helps, but although the helmet was smashed, not even a headache the next day.
No arguments, wear a helmet children.

Daz555

deadkenny wrote:

The same discussion occurs with skiing. Thing is it's mostly about vanity and acceptance. In Europe a lot still don't bother with them because they think it spoils their looks on the slopes.

I disagree - it is not about vanity. Helmets in skiing are so rare simply because they are irrelevant to the skiing population in general - helmets are just not on the agenda. Of course there has been a slow growth in helmet use over the last 20 years that I have been into snowsports.

One thing very different about the ski/snowboard crowd however is that there are no helmet nazis at all (either pro or anti) in my experience. Each to their own and I welcome that attitude.

Having said that I do have a ski/snowboard lid.

alitodd

If I took the stance of only wearing a lid on the trails, I wouldn't be typing this today.

About a month and a half ago, I was riding to the cycle centre with a full face lid and pressure suit (spine protector) on, when a muppet slammed into the back of me doing some silly speed. My head shattered the windscreen, as did my shoulders. After a cautionary ambulance journey and x-rays on my spine, the doctors told me I'd be dead if not for the helmet, and paralysed if not for the spine guard. I've occasionally hurt myself riding DH, but I've never put myself in that position with a slippery root...

I say let the sceptics continue. Natural selection for the win!

Tom Barton

I quite enjoyed reading your sh*t stirring post Northwind! However, given my clinical background I have a suggestion for future stirs :-) (and I'll say now even though I'm pro helmet, I always respect peoples decisions so I'm not taking 'sides')

Northwind wrote:

owenlars wrote:

And your brain is the most protected internal organ you have, it's in an armoured box on a shock absorbing mount and your entire crash reflex is to protect it, not to mention that it's fairly out of the way...

This is the only bit I thought wasn't quite right - it is well protected, but its still massively vunerable;



Its very spikey in there and any bump thats enough to move the brain around within the skull will have it moving over these sharp edges. Cerebral spinal fluid provides little in the way of useful shock absorbtion.

However, on the other hand - the skull/scalp has a major advantage over all but one type of helmet. And that is that the scalp moves over the skull on an impact where there is also forward/sideways/whatever movement and this drastically reduces the whiplash effect with the injuries to neck and brain when compared to a helmet 'hooking up' with a surface.

http://brainmind.net/BrainLecture11.html
(/\where i stole the piccy from)
I only ever ride off road really and I always have my knee pads on!

Iwingstein

Haven't read whole thread as I'm on me phone, but please bear in mind that if you ate hit by a third party and not wearing a helmet any judge will hold you partially responsible for some of your injuries.

So instead of winning a million, you might get two thirds of that.

Still think not wearing a helmet is waste of 60 quid?

ATB

Simon

Northwind

Tom Barton wrote:

This is the only bit I thought wasn't quite right - it is well protected, but its still massively vunerable

Sure, but still well protected in human biology terms, we're pretty delicate overcomplicated organisms after all. Especially compared with a kneecap or femur. Brain injuries in cycling are very rare after all.

bwfc4eva868

Wear a Full face for Technical Trails like Lee Quarry and Gisburn in winter (keeps face warmer) and it seems to give me more confidence, i may look stupid wearing a full face, but having put a hole in my chin when i was younger i prefer it.

Daz555

Iwingstein wrote:

Haven't read whole thread as I'm on me phone, but please bear in mind that if you ate hit by a third party and not wearing a helmet any judge will hold you partially responsible for some of your injuries.

So instead of winning a million, you might get two thirds of that.

I seem to recall that there has only been a single instance of that happening. Now English law is of course influenced by precedent but there is still a subtantial body of cases where we have seen the "you take your victims as you find them" approach - eg if you punch a guy with a brain defect and he happens to die, it is just tough luck on you.

Any legal eagles on here know more about this - I'm genuinely interested.

Atz

People are grown ups and can decide themselves but I'd never ride ANYWHERE without a helmet (I even ride the 5 mins to the shops with a helmet) and when I have friends new to MTB who want guiding around places I wouldn't ride with them unless they have a lid on. It's entirely selfish, I have no urge to have to deal with someone with an avoidable head injury, particularly a friend. As DK and Cooldad said, last weekend WOULD have been a very different outcome had Cooldad not worn a helmet and even then, we were a bit worried for a while.

nation

Daz555 wrote:

Iwingstein wrote:

Haven't read whole thread as I'm on me phone, but please bear in mind that if you ate hit by a third party and not wearing a helmet any judge will hold you partially responsible for some of your injuries.

So instead of winning a million, you might get two thirds of that.

I seem to recall that there has only been a single instance of that happening. Now English law is of course influenced by precedent but there is still a subtantial body of cases where we have seen the "you take your victims as you find them" approach - eg if you punch a guy with a brain defect and he happens to die, it is just tough luck on you.

Any legal eagles on here know more about this - I'm genuinely interested.

Not a lawyer, but I work in insurance and dealing with injury claims as a result of road traffic accidents is part of my job. In other words, if you get hit by a driver and sue them for your injuries, your solicitor will be talking to someone like me.

It's important to note that not every such claim is actually argued in a court. In fact the vast majority aren't. Insurance companies will usually go to some length to avoid that because it is incredibly expensive relative to negotiating a settlement without going to court.

So, unless there is some clear disagreement on liability (i.e. both sides are reasonably claiming that the accident wasn't their fault) or quantum (how much money constitutes a reasonable settlement) there will be no litigation and the case won't see a courtroom. In general, an insurance company will argue for a reduction in settlement of around 20% on the basis of contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist for not wearing a helmet, and will usually get it.

It's also worth noting that County Court decisions (where such cases are argued) don't set precedent. The case needs to be appealed to a higher court to gain a precedent-setting decision.

cooldad

Interesting info, but looking at contributory negligence and insurance settlements seems a bit pointless if you can avoid the issue entirely. And riding off road you only have yourself, or the evil tree roots to blame.
Apart from a bit of a sweaty head in summer, you shouldn't even notice helmet that fits well.
And they don't even have to cost much. I replaced mine with an identical (Bell) for about £17, new obviously. Not fancy, fashionable or sexy, but fits my odd shaped head perfectly, complies with all the necessary standards (CE and TUV for good measure) and did its job.
Personally I wouldn't have any issue with legislation - seat belts, motorcycle helmets etc are already law.
But probably in a minority on that score.