Helmets worth the weight in gold

meanredspider

Northwind wrote:

While I'm s**t-stirring... When I had my big road crash- went right through the windscreen of a parked car at about 30mph- I spent a wee bit of time in A&E having cuts stitched up and my broken fingers sorted out (shoulder was popped back in by the ambulance men). And all the way through the process, medical opinion was unanimous, they looked at my injuries and discussed the crash and said "If it wasn't for your helmet, you'd be dead, or at least in a very bad state".

Which is well impressive because it was in my bedroom at the time. I knew they were good, I didn't know they were that good!

Which only goes to show "where there's no sense, there's no feeling"

What on earth do you get up to in the bedroom that needs a helmet more than you need it on your bike? :shock:

cooldad

popstar wrote:

Cooldad pix or it didn't happen !

Fortunately, the group were more concerned about my wellbeing than taking pics of me, although I know if you had been there, you would have got me to do it again to get the right angle and lighting, and once again for the video.
I do have a helmet jigsaw puzzle though.

Northwind

It's vanishingly rare that you'll die of a head injury or take a permanent debilitating injury while mountain biking, is the point, whereas it's fairly common to damage a knee. Mountain biking is a surprisingly safe sport as most of us do it. Now I've never been brain damaged despite appearances but I can tell you, you don't want to **** up a knee.

And yes, damn right I'm weighing likelihood vs severity, that's what risk mitigation is all about. Getting shot is worse than landing on your head, would you wear a bullet proof vest while riding?

Now people can misunderstand these arguments... It's not anti-helmet, not at all, wearing helmets is IMO a Good Thing and it's great that we've got such a pro-helmet culture... But it's not the only thing to think about and the argument for knee protection is very strong.

meanredspider wrote:

What on earth do you get up to in the bedroom that needs a helmet more than you need it on your bike? :shock:

Always wear protection man.

GHill

Northwind wrote:

"If it wasn't for your helmet, you'd be dead, or at least in a very bad state".

These statements peak my curiosity even when a helmet was worn. It isn't as if there was a control group...

Eyon

fortunately glass slows you down slowly, and you have a greater time to decelerate if you hit a soft seat too, less impact damage and no doubt a lot was absorbed by your neck. as no doubt you wouldn't have had your head "slap" the ground, more like bend round as you entered the car. Also fingers broken and dislocated shoulder would absorb the impact. I am sorry to hear about your accident and I truly hope that you made a 100% recovery, but they are two different types of impact.

There is absolutely no doubting that a helmet does decrease the chance of serious injury, it does not eliminate it, but your head is a fragile thing and it deserves protection. The skull is strong but breakable, and the fluid surrounding your brain has its limitations too.

With regards to knee pads, I'd rather have fucked knees and not be able to ride than having to spend the rest of my life as a vegetable.

I know, a great game to solve this argumet..... Lets both have 10 pints, i don my helmet and then we crash our bikes real fast and see who comes off worse? The alcohol should mask the pain

welshkev

Eyon wrote:

I know, a great game to solve this argumet..... Lets both have 10 pints, i don my helmet and then we crash our bikes real fast and see who comes off worse? The alcohol should mask the pain

let me know when you're doing that i want to watch

Northwind

Northwind wrote:

Now people can misunderstand these arguments... It's not anti-helmet

Eyon wrote:

I know, a great game to solve this argumet..... Lets both have 10 pints, i don my helmet and then we crash our bikes real fast and see who comes off worse?

There we go It's not a choice between the two! Tell you what, you wear your helmet, I'll wear my helmet and my kneepads and probably my elbow pads too since they're so comfy and we'll see who comes off worse

theshrew

To be honest ive only been out on my bike 5 times and when i first got it i thought to myself im not getting a helmet you look like like a right tool ! After talking to my mate he said it doesnt matter everyone has one on so i bought one.

Im so glad i did now after yesterdays off and will defo not be riding a bike without one in the future.

Yes i have a foofed helmet and have learnt its best not ride with a huge hangover but i got up and walked away with nothing but a big of mud on my back and a slight headache for 10 min. If i didnt have my helmet on im sure i would of had a huge egg on my head today probably worse !

meanredspider

Northwind wrote:

It's vanishingly rare that you'll die of a head injury or take a permanent debilitating injury while mountain biking, is the point, whereas it's fairly common to damage a knee. Mountain biking is a surprisingly safe sport as most of us do it. Now I've never been brain damaged despite appearances but I can tell you, you don't want to **** up a knee.

And yes, damn right I'm weighing likelihood vs severity, that's what risk mitigation is all about. Getting shot is worse than landing on your head, would you wear a bullet proof vest while riding?

Now people can misunderstand these arguments... It's not anti-helmet, not at all, wearing helmets is IMO a Good Thing and it's great that we've got such a pro-helmet culture... But it's not the only thing to think about and the argument for knee protection is very strong.

.

I don't disagree about knee protection - it's just that I've not seen too many cars to go through the windscreen of on the local trails either...I have also seen far more really nasty face injuries than knee injuries - though this is around FF helmet wearing.

I know about risk - it's my job. I think trying to compare the two is a mistake. Knee pads are a "good thing" full stop. It's not an either or question.

Northwind

meanredspider wrote:

I know about risk - it's my job. I think trying to compare the two is a mistake. Knee pads are a "good thing" full stop. It's not an either or question.

Well, that's exactly it, it shouldn't ever be an either or but the same arguments that apply for helmets apply for knee pads, in some ways stronger.

The point of the windscreen story isn't to say "I didn't wear a helmet and I was fine", it was that when people say a helmet saved them, it ain't neccesarily so. My old Flux has a nice dent in the back, now that didn't save my life or probably even save me from any real damage but I bet it saved me from a bruise and a moan and probably a bit of a headache. And that's worthwhile too.

popstar

Eyon wrote:

I know, a great game to solve this argumet..... Lets both have 10 pints, i don my helmet and then we crash our bikes real fast and see who comes off worse? The alcohol should mask the pain

Eyon, didn't you know them mad drunk scots? 10 pints? Make sure their pints of whisky.

EnglishChris

Interesting point about the assumptions a lot of us make about always wearing helmets but not other protection. My brother was hoofing down a landrover trail at the end of a day at Nant yr Arian, with me ten metres or so behind him, and just as I thought "ooh this is a bit fast" he completely lost the front wheel on a tough tuft of wet grass and was dumped on his side before he knew what was happening.

His helmet was cracked right through in three places which made us both grateful he had it on. However, he didn't have any elbow protection on, and the impact caused him to shatter the bottom of is humerus at the elbow joint. As the broken end of the humerus forced its way out of the skin, it severed the tendon connecting his tricep to his elbow and luckily missed the nerve and artery that run down there. It took 3 ops and about 9 months of physio to get him back to normal and he won't get on a bike again.

If he'd severed the nerve or artery it could have been a lot scarier and I have often wondered whether elbow protection would have helped or not. However, mine is pretty uncomfortable and I rarely wear them...

Here's his scar....

welshkev

EnglishChris wrote:

Interesting point about the assumptions a lot of us make about always wearing helmets but not other protection. My brother was hoofing down a landrover trail at the end of a day at Nant yr Arian, with me ten metres or so behind him, and just as I thought "ooh this is a bit fast" he completely lost the front wheel on a tough tuft of wet grass and was dumped on his side before he knew what was happening.

His helmet was cracked right through in three places which made us both grateful he had it on. However, he didn't have any elbow protection on, and the impact caused him to shatter the bottom of is humerus at the elbow joint. As the broken end of the humerus forced its way out of the skin, it severed the tendon connecting his tricep to his elbow and luckily missed the nerve and artery that run down there. It took 3 ops and about 9 months of physio to get him back to normal and he won't get on a bike again.

If he'd severed the nerve or artery it could have been a lot scarier and I have often wondered whether elbow protection would have helped or not. However, mine is pretty uncomfortable and I rarely wear them...

Here's his scar....

OW!!!!!, when you say he won't get back on his bike..i that his choice cos he's scared/worried of whatever or a medical reason stopping him?

Shotsaway

As there is no compulsory helmet law, it is up to the individuals as to whether you wear a helmet or not. I believe New Zealand and Australia have helmet laws?

I always wear a helmet and have done since a snowboarding accident (I wasn't wearing a helmet) in 2003. I caught an edge at high speed, flipped over and my head took the full impact. I spent 2 days in an Austrian hospital with concussion. It also meant that I couldn't snowboard for the rest of my holiday. The accident happened on the 1st day of my holiday.

When I came home I bought myself a helmet for snowboarding and a helmet for my riding.

Only last summer I came off my bike on a trail and I face planted into the ground. I was lying there wondering where my bike was (It seemed like a long time) when the bike hit me on my head. I removed my helmet to find that the chain ring and dug itself into the back of my helmet. I was lucky the helmet wasn't. I got home and the helmet was binned!

I also make both of my daughters wear helmets, whenever they ride their bikes. When they are adults they can then make up their own minds, but I believe that habits now will become habits when they are older.

EnglishChris

Well, biking was never the thing he was really into - he just used to come on some trips with me (and could hold his own surprisingly well). He loves other stuff (karate etc) more and was really worried that the accident might mean he couldn't do it any more.

I think a combination of that, how randomly it happened (it was already a little hairy as we didn't know exactly where we were, mobile reception was v sketchy, it was late in the afternoon, cold and pi**ing it down, my trail map rapidly disintegrated in the rain), and the consequences if he had severed the nerve (apparently he would have struggled to get feeling and movement back at all) or artery (we would have been in a much scarier situation on the hill), meant he just decided it wasn't worth it for him...

He was the most dedicated follower of physio I've ever known and the consultant surgeon at Addenbrookes nearly fell of his chair when he saw how much movement he'd managed to get back.

I think I make make a purchase of those new SixSixOne Kyle Straight elbow pads...:-) the only soft comfy looking pads I can find that aren't made out of neoprene (which I'm allergic to!)... shame they don't seem to do a knee pad equivalent.

The thing is though, on the risk side of things, the same thing could happen on my daily commute to work and I'm probably not going to think of wearing them for that... :?

Shotsaway

Going slightly off topic but still safety related.

A women my wifes works with doesn't wear a seat belt whilst in the car. She passed her test before seat belts were compulsory. The reason she doesn't wear a seat belt, is because, she doesn't want to be trapped by the seat belt in the event of the car overturning!

Genius.....

And i'm not making this up but her car beeps if the seatbelt isn't done up, so she clips it in and then sits on the seat belt!

welshkev

i think it might've been said in an earlier post, but we can't forsee every accident, we just try and do the best we can, i guess if i'd had an accident where i'd damaged my knee or elbow then i'd think more about wearing protection there.

i've knocked myself out twice - both times wearing helmets and i've hurt my ribs on numerous occasions. i think as long as we take reasonable precautions we should be OK

i think sometimes if we think about getting hurt too much we take the concentration out of actually riding our bikes, i know there's been times when i've been on a trail and there's a huge drop on the one side of me and i'm thinking "oh look at that, i'd be fooked if i went over he edge here" but i just concentrate on the trail and hopefully get out the other end in one piece

largephil

welshkev wrote:

i think it might've been said in an earlier post, but we can't forsee every accident

Exactly right.

My worst was a 15 foot head plant into a tree stump at about 20mph, landed on my head. 1 Broken helmet and 3 weeks of concussion later and I can say that im glad I put a helmet on before I get on a bike. Incidently, I also wear knee pads all the time but they would not have helped much in that crash

Daz555

Wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet. I have never judged anyone either way and I never will. Personally, I pick and choose my helmet wear.

Popping down the shops or to the pub on my hack? No helmet.
Off for a proper MTB ride. Helmet.

Having a gentle day with my wife cruising on the piste? No helmet.
Backcountry on some serious terrain with the lads. Helmet.

Bit of light gardening (cutting grass, pruning etc). No protection.
Pruning tree with chainsaw. Hard hat, gloves & visor.

At the end of the day there is a HUGE list of things I do each day/week that I do not wear a helmet for. Pottering about on my bike is just one of them - and not the riskiest either. I care not if people wear helmets or not. What I do care about is helmet mafia on both sides of the debate - please just leave us all alone.

welshkev

Daz555 wrote:

At the end of the day there is a HUGE list of things I do each day/week that I do not wear a helmet for. Pottering about on my bike is just one of them - and not the riskiest either.

I care not if people wear helmets or not. What I do care about is helmet mafia on both sides of the debate - please just leave us all alone.

if they choose not to wear a helmet then that's their fault if they have an accident, me personally i just think it's a bit silly if they don't. i feel odd now going out even just to the shop without my helmet on.

i've been mountain biking for nearly 20 years, had countless accidents, OK probably none that would've been fatal without a helmet, but going off a 4 ft drop off at around 15 mph and using my head as a brake would certainly have hurt more with no helmet

as would've riding to my mates house about 5 mins away, front wheel washed out on wet leaves and i came off smacking my head, again with a helmet on for a 5 min ride, not lethal but it would have fooking hurt

lasty

After many years of riding / racing those motorcycle things i feel naked with just a cycle helmet on ... :shock:

Personal choice is a wonderful thing and i ain`t gonna get involved in that argument but PERSONALLY i wear a helmet as the protection offered is not much BUT as good as it gets . Even a slow tumble is going to be pretty serious if terra firma is butted with any force , and a 20mph slow racing crash had me seeing stars mainly because at higher speeds you just slide and get banged around - lower speeds you tend to go down like the proverial sack of shit !!
A sad postscript to any helmet argument was a mate cycling through Leeds center on his usual (helmet-less) commute when Mr fancy solicitor in his new volvo ran a red light and cleaned up afformentioned matey ..... He`s had a million pound payout but can`t do anything for himself = cabbaged , and he wouldn`t mind me saying that .

Personal choice but i wear a helmet - anyone who doesn`t hasn`t butted anything hard recently ... :roll:

meanredspider

I learned that if I have the safety gear, I should just wear it. I had a big accident in my race car at a trackday (went into Quarry corner at Castle Combe backwards having lost control at about 100mph). I wasn't wearing my fireproof race gear because it's hot and because I didn't want to appear the "knob" in the race gear when everyone else is wearing jeans. Only luck meant that the fuel tank didn't split at the same time as the boot-mounted battery was being ripped off its mountings - it would have been a big fire. I'd have felt bloody stupid with whatever degree burns (had I survived) knowing that I have a 3-layer Nomex suit hanging in the cupboard (if you ever question how effective these are, there's a rather harrowing YouTube video of a Porsche going up in a fireball. The marshals pull the driver out and leave him on the grass assuming he's dead. He then gets up and starts staggering about - quite incredible that he was alive). Anyhow, I wear my race suit every time I'm on track and I wear my lid everytime I get on my bike - why wouldn't I?

andyrm

I’ve gone through more than a few (and seen some horror story crashes with mates) over the years. Here’s a couple of highlights:

- Crashing on limestone descent, got up pouring blood from knees and elbows. Thought my head felt heavy from the crash, assumed this was due to whacking my head/jarring neck. Took lid off and found golf ball sized lump of limestone embedded in the outer shell. Nasty, nasty experience.

- Riding buddy flying out of a bombhole, kicked up rear wheel and head butted a tree. Got up, walked away, looked at helmet which had split. Collapsed and remained unconscious for 10 minutes, came round properly in the ambulance. 5 years on, he still doesn’t remember the accident.

- Recent smallish incident myself again, came blasting round a bend on one of our local (MTB only) trails, smashed the side of my head into the side of one of the branches, thought I was fine, crack right through helmet and a badly jarred neck the next day. Impact speed of around 15mph at the time, could have been really bad.

And in the scheme of things, these are pretty small crashes. £50 - £100 or so is absolutely nothing for increasing your odds not only of surviving, but of surviving and continuing to live in a manner you have come used to.

Northwind

EnglishChris wrote:

I think I make make a purchase of those new SixSixOne Kyle Straight elbow pads...:-) the only soft comfy looking pads I can find that aren't made out of neoprene (which I'm allergic to!)... shame they don't seem to do a knee pad equivalent.

Oh, tell me more... I've always thought 661 don't make a Kyle Strait elbow because they know none of their elbow pads are good enough to be put alongside the Kyle Strait knees.

I don't think the POC Bones have neoprene in them, they're the best elbow guards I've found but they do make you look like a wee bit of a stormtrooper Far more comfy than enclosing soft pads, you'd think hard pads would be worse for all day wear than soft ones but they stay in place so well that they don't need tight straps or full enclosure. Ace.

TowerRider

starkee wrote:

Glad to hear the helmets have done their job !

And to think in the Feb edition of WMB some fella has written a letter complaining that all the pictures in the magazine feature a rider wearing a helmet,and they are " expensive, useless pieces of moulded expansion foam " :shock:

(not read following comments)

You like WMB (who must have read the article a number of times while taking the pea) totally miss the point the writer is making. He is saying that most of the helmets are expensive foam AND that he and everyone else SHOULD wear full face helmets which I presume are made like crash helmets. He seemed to make his point very clear but it was missed by a cycling mag and no doubt other 'readers'.

Northwind

It's the "expensive and useless foam" that's the most important part of a cycle helmet... Open up a DH or motorbike helmet and see what's inside. The hard shell can spread impacts and resist penetration but the soft inner does the dissipation and reduction of force, and the reduction of deceleration. Usually in cycling and motorbike injuries it's not a physical invasion (ie spike to the brain) that does the damage, it's deceleration and rotation (ie, splatting the contents of the skull without breaking it).

His letter's incoherent and ill-informed, a proper frothing-at-the-mouth rant. "It's common knowledge in common sense merchants", say what? That seems to be his entire argument, "common sense says bike helmets don't work because they're made of foam" Yep, get back in the box science, common sense is here!!2!

jimexbox

TowerRider wrote:

He is saying that most of the helmets are expensive foam AND that he and everyone else SHOULD wear full face helmets which I presume are made like crash helmets

What do you think is inside motorbike crash helmets? A thick layer of material designed to absorb and spread the force of an impact. Similar material found in MTB helmets.

u05harrisb

ever since i was younger wanting to ride my bike to a friends house i never wanted to wear them, to the extent that i would then walk or not go to my friends because i didnt want to wear a helmet. it was far far too uncool! however now i race cross country, everybody wears helmets and its almost an un written rule on club runs and such like. i was gonna buy a new helmet for the first time since i was 9 and was going to spend about £70ish on one, mom gave me a lift due to bike wheel issues and saw the "super safe" carbon ones, well in her mind anyway whos to disagree, anyway mom decided thats what she wanded me to have and invested £130 to no cost of my own in a spesh s-works lid. they are absolutly brilliant! and i will always wear on to school (12 miles) to work (25 miles) and on club runs and on my own from 25 miles to 50 miles. i think it would be silly not to, but i think the right to choose is very important however if somthing affects your life because of that choice then you have to embrace it!

Where are my stabilisers?

Personal choice is one thing, but you could argue that it's a bit selfish not to wear a helmet when you're just popping to the shops (or anywhere). You don't set out on your journey and think you're going to die, but the person who hits you certainly didn't set out on their journey to kill somebody either!!

I know a person who hit and killed someone, it was an accident but the guilt totally ruined his life. I wouldn't want to be in his position and live with that!

So, if you can't be ar$ed to protect your head, should I care if I turn you into a vegetable?
:shock:

Sad truth is, I would care and I'd probably feel guilty for the rest of my life...Your choice though :roll:

Philcho

I'm looking for a helmet but haven't found any that i actually like, although some giro ones are cool but expensive! :shock:
I've only really had one major off when i was out with a friend a few years back going downhill (tarmac), lost my front wheel on some slippery leaves doing about 20mph and planted into the tarmac... only suffered some mild concussion and lots of scars to remind me I don't really believe in helmets unless i'm doing something with enough risk for instance proper MTBing on a trail, which i haven't done in too long .

But as everyone says it's personal preference at the end of the day.