Concept 2 rowing to aid cycling help

gwillis

Anybody use rowing as an aid to their cycling?. I'm looking to step up my game a bit this year and was thinking of using a rower to asset when I can't get out on the bike. Does anybody have any simple programes etc

P_Tucker

Get a turbo trainer, much better for improving cycling performance.

gwillis

Thanks I ready use a turbo but would like to mix my training up a bit.

meanredspider

Can't imagine how it would do any harm - good aerobic exercise and good cross-training

P_Tucker

gwillis wrote:

Thanks I ready use a turbo but would like to mix my training up a bit.

Fair enough. If you want to get better at cycling, cycle.

gwillis

Hmmmm, I think there's a good chance that other forms of exercise assist in cycling i.e. to improve core body strength such as light weights etc. So whilst cycling will improve cycling there are other ares that assist.

P_Tucker

gwillis wrote:

Hmmmm, I think there's a good chance that other forms of exercise assist in cycling i.e. to improve core body strength such as light weights etc. So whilst cycling will improve cycling there are other ares that assist.

Well, looks like you know all you need to know then. Good luck.

WisePranker

If you're starting indoor rowing, why not join the Concept2 challenge in the MTB section?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12731400

gregg.pedder

I find rowing (Concept2) an excellent "sideline" fitness activity as it gives a full body workout and works you're upper body a lot more than cycling.

I tend to build muscle easily and by cycling only I end up with good solid legs and bit of a wiry upper body, so doing some weights, Concept2 rowing, running and swimming balances it out well.

And as you say it varies you're training so you don't end up doing 5 turbo sessions a week in the winter and getting so sick of it you never want to see the thing again.

GP

SNACK-HEAD

Also a concept user. Why not have a quick half hour when you are sick of the turbo or short on time. Plenty of muscles used . Not cycling specific . Cycle training is preferable bot not always possible. Some riders do supplementary gym work . So fit it in as its suits you for weight management, core work or maintaining some enthusiasm.

weapons

I'm an ex/part time-rower and I continue to use a Concept 2 erg to supplement my turbos once a week. I usually do either a 30 min anaerobic threshold effort or around 40 mins at a high aerobic level. Rowing is a much more time efficient for training than cycling i.e. I find you get greater gains from 30 mins on the erg compared to 30 mins on the bike. The muscle groups used are very similar and in addition, you get core stability benefits, useful if you want to be comfortable for a long time in the saddle.

gwillis

Some great tips. Thanks ill.start building in a rowing session a week after all.it can't hurt.

And to the earlier poster I never suggested I knew it all , that's the great thing about forums you can always learn off somebody

P_Tucker

Whether they know anything or not

Gavin Cook

What is concept2 ?

ben16v

Gavin Cook wrote:

What is concept2 ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=concept2

Al_38

As a rower who plays on bikes for a bit of cross training, I can suggest the following:

For all of these set the drag factor to between 130 and 135 (probably between 4 and 5 on the flywheel notches)

UT2:
3 x 6km 1 minute rest between for something to drink. rate should be between 18 and 20spm. Target splits (for me) between 1:55 and 2:00. This is a very common session for UT2 development (HR 130 - 150).

2 x 10km 1 minute rest between. same rate and split as above. Rather tedious.

UT1 / AT
30minutes at rate 20. This is pretty much the standard for aerobic performance used in the UK, also a good mental test. The rate is limited to 20 spm but it is as hard as you can sustain. Target split 10-15 secs lower than your UT2 pace.

AT/LT
(45 secs on, 15 secs off x10) x 3. 4 minutes between sets of 10. In the on period this is sprinting (splits < 1:30, rate > 38), off period is just recovery so drink, slide backwards and forwards etc.

For all of these, the most benefit will be gained if good form and technique are maintained.

Al_38

I would also suggest doing a standard 2k test on the rowing machine periodically and before you start. This should provide a gauge for some of the target splits. If the average pace for the 2k is TP then target splits might be:
UT2: TP + 19-21 s
UT1/AT: TP + 8-11s
Sprinting splits are much more limited by the max power you can generate and so arent related to 2k scores.

Big Hairy Wallapers

Fantastic thread,
Thanks for starting it.
Really useful tips and very encouraging as I've cross trained using a rowing machine for some time now.
I agree you can't beat time on the bike but that's not the question so thanks once again for starting the thread
Cheers

SBezza

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

I agree you can't beat time on the bike but that's not the question so thanks once again for starting the thread
Cheers

The question was will it aid cycling, well the answer to that is highly unlikely.

If the question was will it aid fitness, then yes it will, but don't expect it to be a substitute for actually getting on a bike, in terms of actually getting better at riding a bike.

weapons

Before you start any of these sessions, I would make sure you have your technique sorted to a) get the most benefit out of your sessions and b) prevent injury. The rowing erg is probably the most difficult machine in a gym to use correctly if you've never been shown how.

If you are rowing in a gym, from my experience as a rower, I very much doubt the gym instructors know how to use them properly.

Concept 2 do a fairly useful step by step guide that breaks down the rowing stroke:
http://concept2.co.uk/training/technique

A good drill is to build up the stroke gradually - start sitting at the finish with arms only, then build in the body rock and then add in the slide gradually (1/4 slide, 1/2 slide, 3/4 slide etc).

Loretta Damage

I do a couple of sessions a week on the concept2.

1. 10000m pull, I try to maintain 2.00min/500m avg and 70-75% HR.

2. 8 x 500m intervals with 1.5min rests. Max effort 85% + HR.

It breaks up the spinning and turbo sessions that I'm limited to Mon - Fri until the mornings get lighter.

P_Tucker

Al_38 wrote:

As a rower who plays on bikes for a bit of cross training, I can suggest the following:

For all of these set the drag factor to between 130 and 135 (probably between 4 and 5 on the flywheel notches)

UT2:
3 x 6km 1 minute rest between for something to drink. rate should be between 18 and 20spm. Target splits (for me) between 1:55 and 2:00. This is a very common session for UT2 development (HR 130 - 150).

2 x 10km 1 minute rest between. same rate and split as above. Rather tedious.

UT1 / AT
30minutes at rate 20. This is pretty much the standard for aerobic performance used in the UK, also a good mental test. The rate is limited to 20 spm but it is as hard as you can sustain. Target split 10-15 secs lower than your UT2 pace.

AT/LT
(45 secs on, 15 secs off x10) x 3. 4 minutes between sets of 10. In the on period this is sprinting (splits < 1:30, rate > 38), off period is just recovery so drink, slide backwards and forwards etc.

For all of these, the most benefit will be gained if good form and technique are maintained.

I seriously doubt non-rowers technique will be good enough to rate 20 for half an hour and maintain a decent split.

bobinski

I use a water rower as part of my my fits and starts fitness regime. i have to say that although i recognise its benefits for my fitness overall it does seem to have a negative effect on my cycling in that my legs seem to tire more easily if cycling a day after rowing.
i would be interested to know if this is a common experience. my technique is apparently quite good. the upside is rowing certainly helps with my lower back mobility.

G-Wiz

Ergo's only seem to help my cycling in one place and that's in core muscles particularly the lower back. The higher load, longer range of leg movement and lower cadence will certainly cause you to recruit more muscle groups than cycling, but it's more akin to a high-resistance, low cadence climbing session, hence the tiredness that one person commented on.

From a long time rowing I've noticed that cyclists adapt well to rowing mainly based on good cardio fitness and an ability to suffer consistently, the reverese isn't as common (Rebecca Romero excepted, although to be fair she was a fairly decent cyclist before she took up rowing).

As others have said it may help relieve the turbo tedium, and help some back & shoulder development which is useful for climbing, but time doing specific work on the bike is better.

If you find the turbo dull, get some rollers and stick the telly on. I can happily do 2 hours on them at a low enough intensity if needed. Between that, turbo, a bit of weights, and the real thing I've got through most of the winter.

woodford2barbican

I a a former rower and a concept 2 user to date.

Currently looking to buy a rowing machine for home use as my cycle commute has come to an end and i need a time efficient way of exercising.

Does anyone use the waterrower & do they reccomend it in comparision to the concept 2?

I had a go on one 20 years ago....and remember thinking it was fine....

Tom Dean

woodford2barbican wrote:

my cycle commute has come to an end and i need a time efficient way of exercising

cycling?

Pross

I can't believe the split times people can do on these things. 3 of us in work use the gym in our lunch breaks and have a mini league for 1,000m which I'm currently leading with a time of 4:02. It took me 30 seconds afterwards to get the breath back to stand up but someone above is doing that rate for 10,000m! I know I'm unfit but hadn't realised how much. On the plus side my technique is as shown on the Concept website that someone posted although I don't have the upper body strength to make that big pull with the arms.

woodford2barbican

Tom Dean wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

my cycle commute has come to an end and i need a time efficient way of exercising

cycling?

it would have to be on a turbo & I would rather it be a rower than a turbo tbh.

can't go outside as the only time I can exercise is when i have responsibility for sleeping children.

dave35

As eddy mercx once said, if you want to ride a bike fast then ride lots.
Cross training is only good for overall fitness it will do nothing for cycling, i should know as i am currently taking a year off racing and doing some running for a change.
Still ride a bike once a week but it is a real struggle to get any speed/endurance at all, so if you want to improve your cycling then ride your bike....lots

PhilPub

Pross wrote:

I can't believe the split times people can do on these things. 3 of us in work use the gym in our lunch breaks and have a mini league for 1,000m which I'm currently leading with a time of 4:02. It took me 30 seconds afterwards to get the breath back to stand up but someone above is doing that rate for 10,000m! I know I'm unfit but hadn't realised how much. On the plus side my technique is as shown on the Concept website that someone posted although I don't have the upper body strength to make that big pull with the arms.

I think if you've got good technique the legs come in to play a good deal. I've not got huge upper body strength and at 72kg I'm officially a "lightweight" for rowing but I use the Concept 2 regularly in the gym and have recently managed 10,000m in 36:50 (av 500m split 1:50.6). I had ideas about taking part in the national indoor champs in March but decided that "proper" training for 2,000m row would be too much of a distraction from my chief interests in cycling and running (or running and cycling, depending on which forum I'm in. Heh!)

As somebody commented on a similar thread, obviously rowing doesn't have the specificity of cycling for cycling fitness but then most people have objectives in life *shock* other than being as fast a cyclist as possible, and as complementary exercise activities for aerobic fitness go I think rowing has to be up there. I certainly like to use it to add a bit of variety to my exercise routine.

fastandfurry

Personally, I went straight from rowing to cycling, and without any training beyond commuting I won my first race on a bike. I row a bit in the winter but stop about this time of year as I tend to be a bit heavy anyway - I don't want to be carrying big arms up hills! I think this only becomes valid when you're really looking for the last % - you gain more from having a reliable measure of your power output and learning to push yourself right to your limit than you lose from the small weight gain. Anyone who's ever seen rowers doing a 2,000m test on the rowing machine will know what I'm talking about! Being sick - standard. Lieing on the floor for 10 minutes afterwards - standard...